ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous | Odyssey: Roadmap

[Darth Ender]

i'm not getting what the roadblock was for VR on foot.

in the cockpit, we have VR in the cmdr's view (their head). The only thing that changes is now we have a helmet hud in front of us. Not sure what the big deal is here. So it wont have VR specific settings for motion sickness, like the SRV does...just make it use the SRV settings and be done with it.

If the other non fps camera views are what's not working, then just fall back to the 2d projection at that point.

just weird that walking suddenly makes the whole thing not deliverable if you're not really concerned with providing an ideal solution anyway.

 

[cmdr chequers]

As a VR fan myself, I have got a TRACKIR just for elite and I do love it. It is not VR but it is like 2D VR if that makes sense?

Quest 2 for rFactor 2 and Automobilista 2 , TrackIR for Elite Dangerous
Works for me

 

[SergMx]

I'm afraid it's not that easy with game dev, Serg and I don't really know how that would benefit you actually. Things you intend on fixing get worked on, if you add more plans for other fixes then they might (usually do) have a knock on to the previous stuff being fixed which could put those things at risk of change, which might alter the fix to those - you can't just go "FIXED! THAT'S IN!" and lock it off - everything touches everything, it's incredible.

Okay, I get it.
But it's not quite clear how this is detected. Without releasing a patch that makes the error is difficult to notice that there is a bug. But in any case, once 2 weeks pass, the list of changes compared to the previous patch will be 2 times longer.

 

[Dragsham]

This 'were a tiny minority', is just inaccurate.
I'm betting the VR community is big.
And l mean 1000s of cmdrs old and new.
Its a shame we can't collate the facts here regarding just how many play elite in VR.
Frontier should release some facts regarding us being a fringe element, which is how some folks see us.
Personally I can't think of any other way to play oddity.

o7

 

[Flimley]

As a VR fan myself, I have got a TRACKIR just for elite and I do love it. It is not VR but it is like 2D VR if that makes sense?

It does make sense. I own one also. A very nice addition to any game.

Flimley

 

[zil]

VR won't work with Odyssey, FDev will need to gather more resources to make it work especially with the controller. The experience needs to be similar to Half-Life Alyx. This may be the reason they dump it. Look at other FPS like Call of Duty or Battlefield. Non are actually able to convert KB and mice to VR controller with ease. You need a separate release of the game for that. The backend coding is just not the same.

 

[Snowymonk]

This 'were a tiny minority', is just inaccurate.
I'm betting the VR community is big.
And l mean 1000s of cmdrs old and new.
Its a shame we can't collate the facts here regarding just how many play elite in VR.
Frontier should release some facts regarding us being a fringe element, which is how some folks see us.
Personally I can't think of any other way to play oddity.

o7

That’s been my argument for a while now.
PC commanders have been prioritised in favour of Console commanders as it’s the largest install base. (it’s definitely not the simplest platform if all the variations of CPU, GPU, graphics cards are to be believed on PC).

The (very) vocal VR minority do seem overly entitled that they should have lots of things that Frontier have said for a while now are not high on their to-do list.

I would really like Frontier to provide some numbers to justify their decisions. I.e.

• how many on PC/PS/Xbox
• sub categories within those groups if possible - that includes the VR, PS5, Xbox X series

I appreciate the issue with releasing explicit numbers. Percentages would at least give inference of relative install bases

 

[RooksBailey]

Likewise. I have not launched in days ... weeks even. Almost 7,000 hours and I am now looking for other ways to spend my spare time. I am not even logging into Horizons knowing that what has been released in Odyssey will be released into Horizons and I feel that my time between now and then will be wasted

That is how I feel, too. I am miffed not just because Frontier pulled a smash-and-grab by releasing a clearly unfinished title at full price, but also because with the exception of the new landable planet types, Odyssey brought little else to the core gameplay experience that interests me. What I wanted was a better integrated CQC, a vastly improved and integrated Power Play, new ship types, new SRV types, new missions, GALNET stories that are actually reflected in the game itself, and fixes to long-standing bugs (such as megaship looting, etc.), but all that was released was an unimaginative and mediocre FPS that no one had at the top of their list. That suggests to me that those of the community who have suggested that FDev is out of touch/no longer care what the community wants were unfortunately correct. And that isn't a good place for a developer to be. It makes me question the future of the franchise as well, which is why I have shelved ED completely and have moved back to Eve Online and NMS.

Having said that, I will not throw in the towel until I see the console release. If the game is still in bad shape by the fall, then I think the stink of death will be on the franchise. However, even that does not have to be the end as I suspect FDev would probably just turn the IP over to a caretaker dev who will convert it to a F2P MMO. In the right hands, such as Turbine or Gaijin, that could be the best thing to happen to the game as those guys know how to keep you invested (literally and figuratively) in a game with good quality content!

 

[Lysette]

Having said that, I will not throw in the towel until I see the console release. If the game is still in bad shape by the fall, then I think the stink of death will be on the franchise. However, even that does not have to be the end as I suspect FDev would probably just turn the IP over to a caretaker dev who will convert it to a F2P MMO. In the right hands, such as Turbine or Gaijin, that could be the best thing to happen to the game as those guys know how to keep you invested (literally and figuratively) in a game with good quality content!

Outsourcing is just a little difficult with a game based on a proprietary game engine (Cobra) - that's where not having a commonly used commercial game engine bites back.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

VR won't work with Odyssey, FDev will need to gather more resources to make it work especially with the controller. The experience needs to be similar to Half-Life Alyx. This may be the reason they dump it. Look at other FPS like Call of Duty or Battlefield. Non are actually able to convert KB and mice to VR controller with ease. You need a separate release of the game for that. The backend coding is just not the same.

This is a red herring because it is not what the VR community is asking at this stage. There will be people asking for it, sure, but personally I would find switching from HOTAS seated play to standing motion controller to be just a hassle. The basic level of implementation being asked for is just stereographic view with added headlook using standard input (mouse+keyboard or controller most likely, but I am sure some maniac would attempt HOTAS). The thing is; we know that this is possible from several people doing shenanigans with the external camera. What is missing is a proper VR on foot UI and they would be basically set.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

See? I didn't even know that you are a VR player. Probably because you don't tell me all day how superior you are compared to pancake peasants like me.
You don't even have a VR tag on the forums!

Shrugs To each their own. Personally, I don't look down my nose on anybody. I do try to live by the rule: "treat others on the internet as if you met them face to face." I heartily dislike knuckle sandwiches, so I try to be civil (I'll admit, I'm not always successful, but I'd like to think I'm not THAT abrasive. )

VR may not be cheap, but pancake needn't be, either. My monitor cost about 500 Euros, and I know some folks who forked over six times that (and more!) for their monitors/TVs.

I get that sometimes, er, most of the time, we come across as rather demanding . . . what can I say . . . once you've done VR, there is no going back. Not even a 60 inch monitor with 144 Hz would be comparable FOR ME. (I'd still like such a beast, obviously . . . )

Anyway, while my interest in Odyssey is so low that even the cockroaches have to bend down to spit on it, I do hope that FDEV fixes the various issues, so that others may enjoy what they paid for.

 

[Axacuatl]

I had ordered EDO pretty much the day it became available for pre-ordering on Steam. I purchased the alpha access too.
I have to admit that I only logged into the alpha like 3x. And I have not even bothered to log into the game again since the release.

Unfortunately the addition of the FPS, while generally fine in the sense that anything which breathes life into the game is welcome, hasn't really motivated me to play. The mere thought of having to go through the same kind of grind in a parallel game, and to make it (much much) worse, not even in VR, but having to move over to my PC and do the good ol' FPS thing like 15 years ago (and game-play wise the FPS part feels like a 15 year old game: solid but a tad boring, unimaginative) - all of that just doesn't make me want to actually play the game when I have a couple of hours to spare and am wondering what it should be.

I am in the camp who would have preferred FDev to flesh out the actual ship-based experience more, add more exciting content, elements to experience, more complex missions (like the Ram Tah Guardians 100/200 millions mission, but a bit less grindy/repetitive in character please).

Of course the franchise has the potential to also host an space legs part, but that would have been so much more exciting if it included e.g. after battle repairs requiring you to put on your space suit and fix things on your ship's hull, or at nav beacons, etc. (a bit like the trailer of Star Citizen from a couple of years ago). It would grow our sense of being there, captaining & maintaining a ship. Just more interaction. The FPS part on the surfaces is okay to be part of that, it just wouldn't have been the first or second priority on my list.

And it would just be great if it wouldn't always end up in a mind-numbing grind. Perhaps release an editor which allows players to design and possibly even orchestrate missions in public PG's ? Then everybody can choose if they want to join such PG for the purpose of being entertained with some content, and there surely would be volunteers who would be happy to create missions, and some who also would be willing to act as a sort of a dungeon master for such missions. Just like popular youtubers, you'd get popular ED channels to conduct missions on say every Sunday evening at 1900 UTC where you know they will release another mission which you can sign up to and scripted and/or supervisor-controlled events will unfold; perhaps just for an hour, perhaps spanning weeks or months, with every week new developments being dropped...

So much potential here... sigh

 

[babelfisch]

I get that sometimes, er, most of the time, we come across as rather demanding . . . what can I say . . . once you've done VR, there is no going back. Not even a 60 inch monitor with 144 Hz would be comparable FOR ME. (I'd still like such a beast, obviously . . . )

Oh, there is going back. I've done it after all. I didn't touch my Rift for years.

VR is impressive, it completely changes the experience and the feeling of sitting in a giant cockpit is awesome. Still, it's not the way I want to play video games. I often eat something, drink a beer, talk to the wife, check something on my mobile. With the HMD I don't even know what's happening around me. Sure, it's quite immersive, but I want to know if someone enters the room.
I guess the difference between pancake and VR is similar to PCs vs consoles. The PC is definitely superior when it comes to versatility, peripherals, performance and graphics. But lots of people prefer to sit on their couch, press a button and play a short FIFA session with their friends.
So I'd say there is 'no going back' from VR for the people who actually want that experience. For others it's a nice gimmick.

 

[Scoob101]

That's me! Today! We have a rota actually. One CM on the forums, all day for one of the week (I'm Thursday). It's been really beneficial so far!

Hey Sally, I appreciate there may some pushback on this (particularly if it's a short term arrangement), but any chance you could publish the rota, so we can @ mention the right CM on the right day?

Ta.

 

[Lysette]

In my mind there is no potential left actually - FDev is stuck with a proprietary game engine, where achieving anything takes an eternity, and is using a network technology with ED, which is somewhat ancient as well. Just have a look what unreal engine 5 can do - fully terraformable terrain, dynamically interactive, tunnels, caves, overhangs, procedural generation of nearby details - this would take FDev ages to achieve, just because they are not using a commercial engine. it might as well be hard to get excellent staff, because who wants to work with a proprietary game engine, where those skills acquired while working with it add no advantage for future employment whatsoever. And anyone used to working with Cobra leaving is one person less, who had some expertise working with this proprietary engine. The more are leaving, the harder it gets to achieve anything with this engine, new staff cannot work right out of the box with it, because it is proprietary. There are so many hurdles to take with it and I guess FDev has given up - but we'll see.

 

[McStinkDog]

Do you know what? I really, massively appreciate this. You didn't need to say it at all, but you did, and I'm massively grateful. Thanks so much.

Also...Dr. Kay Ross is excellent! Period. I hope she gets some peaceful sleep at some point

This is also "The Way"!

 

[amigacooke]

A simple contention, the state of Odyssey is not VR users' fault, it is not concoles users' fault (all paying customers), it is simply Frontier's fault.

Frontier seem to have grasped this, others seem to have more of a problem and look for the nearest convenient scapegoat.

 

[sallymorganmoore]

Hey Sally, I appreciate there may some pushback on this (particularly if it's a short term arrangement), but any chance you could publish the rota, so we can @ mention the right CM on the right day?

Ta.

To be fair I think you should just @ whoever you like if you need us fairly quickly. We can be entirely flexible with days (Like I'm looking now). Sorry I should add that we don't just go "AH! Today is MY forum day and I'll never look again until MY forum day" (hehe), we look every day, except when we have our dedicated days it means we need to sacrifice/hand over some of our primary duties to focus FULLY for the day on forums.

 

[CMDR Disco Cat]

In my mind there is no potential left actually - FDev is stuck with a proprietary game engine, where achieving anything takes an eternity, and is using a network technology with ED, which is somewhat ancient as well. Just have a look what unreal engine 5 can do - fully terraformable terrain, dynamically interactive, tunnels, caves, overhangs, procedural generation of nearby details - this would take FDev ages to achieve, just because they are not using a commercial engine. it might as well be hard to get excellent staff, because who wants to work with a proprietary game engine, where those skills acquired while working with it add no advantage for future employment whatsoever. And anyone used to working with Cobra leaving is one person less, who had some expertise working with this proprietary engine. The more are leaving, the harder it gets to achieve anything with this engine, new staff cannot work right out of the box with it, because it is proprietary. There are so many hurdles to take with it and I guess FDev has given up - but we'll see.

Comparing a demo to a full game is nonsense. Plus the hardware requirements for UE5 are huge.

Also, Frontier, for the Cobra Engine network layer, doesn't use "somewhat ancient" tech. It's p2p, with links to DynamoDB and other dabatases using AWS instances clusters. It's quite modern, if anything. I think Dav made a video years ago in an AWS event. You should watch it, it's super interesting.

Also, the Cobra Engine afaik is C/C++ and A LOT of devs are good with that. Proprietary doesn't mean obscure, and their engine is without a doubt properly documented as they're using it in all their projects.

All that said, you're right on the fact that it is slower to implement stuff in your engine rather than using a commercial engine that does the thing you need. Yet, if a commercial engine had everything needed to make Elite Dangerous and it was easy, one of the AAA studios would have done it already.

I finish on the fact that Star Citizen uses a super cool commercial engine, yet struggles anyway : indeed, modifying an engine to fit your need when you don't have the whole sourcecode is very time and effort consuming. So commercial engines aren't "magic easy solution to all the problems".

Sure, maybe a commercial engine would have be ok for Elite. It also could have made some of the things they did way more difficult to do.

Ah, the video is there :

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvJPyjmfdz0


It's quite technical, but fascinating.

Edit : removing the mention of MongoDB as apparently it's not that one.
Edit 2 : AH, it IS mongoDB in EC2

 

[Ian Skippy]

In my mind there is no potential left actually - FDev is stuck with a proprietary game engine, where achieving anything takes an eternity, and is using a network technology with ED, which is somewhat ancient as well. Just have a look what unreal engine 5 can do - fully terraformable terrain, dynamically interactive, tunnels, caves, overhangs, procedural generation of nearby details - this would take FDev ages to achieve, just because they are not using a commercial engine. it might as well be hard to get excellent staff, because who wants to work with a proprietary game engine, where those skills acquired while working with it add no advantage for future employment whatsoever. And anyone used to working with Cobra leaving is one person less, who had some expertise working with this proprietary engine. The more are leaving, the harder it gets to achieve anything with this engine, new staff cannot work right out of the box with it, because it is proprietary. There are so many hurdles to take with it and I guess FDev has given up - but we'll see.

Thats a bit odd reasoning. There is plenty of obvious stuff FD could add that would improve the game, a lot of it low-hanging things too. UE5 looks amazing and it will absolutely be a 'next gen' kinda step for gaming. But that doesn't mean ED, WoW, EvE, Stellaris or whatever long-running game cannot get cool new updates regardless. UE has been around for decades, every new generation is heralded as the ultimate next thing and dev studios keep using their own engine for all kinds of valid reasons.