Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[Ian Doncaster]

So what you're saying here is interstellar justice has no business ever being served in this game and player A (the despised ganker) should be able to continue their reign of terror if player B (the bounty hunter) lacked skill and just needs to somehow git moar gud before being personally banned?

Blocking is pretty much irrelevant to this, though.

1) Player A high-wakes
2) Player A logs out in the new system (they're no longer "in danger" so no timer applies) long before player B can scan their wake and follow.
3) Player A logs back in - even if they go straight back into Open, they'll be appearing in a normal space instance undetectable to B, not supercruise.
4) Player A jumps to any other system and continues their reign of terror, with B unable to meaningfully track them down again

Even without that, doing a double-jump will shake almost all pursuers (trivially so if your ship outranges theirs)

The game just isn't set up for players to be able to reliably hunt down specific other players, and if it was, player A would get far more use out of that than Player B anyway (giving up a utility slot to a wake scanner is no big deal if your targets aren't going to be firing back anyway)

When they're already disadvantaged by needing to bring a kill-warrant scanner

As an aside, Player B doesn't need a KWS if they're hunting Player A. They know who they're after already, and if they're flying any ship which can plausibly do the job the 2 million credits (capped) that they could get for the kill is irrelevant to them. May as well take something actually useful in combat.

 

[SergMx]

Haha well ok my friend, that's fair a enough take I suppose. So what you're saying here is interstellar justice has no business ever being served in this game and player A (the despised ganker) should be able to continue their reign of terror if player B (the bounty hunter) lacked skill and just needs to somehow git moar gud before being personally banned? When they're already disadvantaged by needing to bring a kill-warrant scanner, a wake scanner and an FSD interdictor while a ganker inherently only needs the FSD interdictor?



This has to be some sort of karmic justice for the early days of mmo griefing. Am I the only one that sees the irony here? It's absolutely hilarious and I am here for it.

Meanwhile there are players with this mentality:



Which is arguably a form of griefing.

¯\(ツ)/¯

Can't we all just, get along?

We must have different games, all the gankers I met were very good pilots, they would never think of blacklisting someone because it's a big shame for them. And if they were defeated, they would not hide, they would seek revenge.

But that's beside the point. I did not write for nothing that there is no such mission, space is so big and boundless that the probability of specially meeting the same person is very small. So you can just write it all off.

 

[Sol Valou]

Blocking is pretty much irrelevant to this, though.

Righto, thanks for going into some of the details here. I'm aware that blocking isn't necessarily a requirement in this situation. I feel I was shooting towards the overall cat and mouse always favoring the mouse, despite some folks seemingly having the opinion the opposite is true. New information for me though is bounties actually paid out are capped at 2 million. That's nutty! I'm assuming this is to thwart exploitative farming by friends? Better ways to go about that imo without killing the incentive entirely. My take away here is players wanting to play anti-pk space police essentially need to wing up in anti-ganker gank squads to be effective. I feel if logging out was handled similar to other online games it would do a lot to combat this type of dynamic overall. Instead of 15 second main menu logging or pulling the plug and poof you disappear, your ship remains in game timing out for a minute or two unless you logged out in a safe location like a station.

We must have different games, all the gankers I met were very good pilots, they would never think of blacklisting someone because it's a big shame for them. And if they were defeated, they would not hide, they would seek revenge.

But that's beside the point. I did not write for nothing that there is no such mission, space is so big and boundless that the probability of specially meeting the same person is very small. So you can just write it all off.

I get what you're saying. Seems you're painting gankers in a positive light here though, alluding to the fact they have a sense of honor? Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is the case then why mention gankers killing the open game if you can just "write it all off"? IIRC I think in another post you mentioned that you're dealing with translation services in order to post, so I understand intent sometimes getting lost in the shuffle.

Also sorry for going so off topic here, I realize these past few posts would fit better in other threads. I recognize I have recently fallen victim to forum PvP and need to spend more time in the game lol

 

[Ian Doncaster]

New information for me though is bounties actually paid out are capped at 2 million. That's nutty! I'm assuming this is to thwart exploitative farming by friends?

Yes, essentially. Otherwise you just meet up, swap similar-sized bounties, and you're only down the base rebuys.

(Or if you're in a wing, where everyone gets a copy of the bounty payout, you all make a big profit)

I suspect it doesn't really matter. You can get several hundred million credits an hour from the top PvE activities; you need to practice combat a fair bit and spend a substantial amount of time on engineering before you can hope to take on even a fairly incompetent PvP pilot ... by that point you're likely well beyond needing the PvP kills to actually pay out, should you ever get one rather than losing opponents fleeing. It's not as if the people blowing up unarmed traders are in it for the in-game rewards either.

Better ways to go about that imo without killing the incentive entirely. My take away here is players wanting to play anti-pk space police essentially need to wing up in anti-ganker gank squads to be effective.

Sure - and even then they won't be very effective. The best you can do is temporary and partial securing of supercruise. Chasing someone out of the system for a few minutes while their shields recover and they go to reload their guns is a win.

I feel if logging out was handled similar to other online games it would do a lot to combat this type of dynamic overall. Instead of 15 second main menu logging or pulling the plug and poof you disappear, your ship remains in game timing out for a minute or two unless you logged out in a safe location like a station.

Though, again, not a massive deal for someone in a Cutter with 25MJ of shields which can probably take two minutes of fire from a full wing even as a sitting duck, and could just chain a few jumps together instead to find somewhere essentially safe to log out. (high-wake, high-wake, low-wake ... you're now in an empty undetectable instance and no-one is going to find you).

Any "make it easier to track and destroy ships" moves are going to benefit the people tracking and destroying haulers / explorers / weak combat ships more so than they benefit the people trying to track and destroy heavily engineered invincible-if-they-want-to-be PvP builds anyway.

 

[Shurimal]

I feel I was shooting towards the overall cat and mouse always favoring the mouse, despite some folks seemingly having the opinion the opposite is true.

Depends on the context If the mouse gets out of the room, the cat has a hard time following them. That is, once you jump to another system even just 20 ly away, the pure combat build can't follow you fast enough. Even more so when the combat build uses SCO drive.

On the other hand, the cat can do a splendid job keeping the mouse away from the big wheel of cheese in the middle of the room This is what I think people mean when they speak about things being tilted in the favor of system blockaders/murderhobos/ganker/whatever you want to call them—yes, you can escape to a nearby system unscathed, but you also are denied reaching the CG station, Felicity's base or some other POI. Related to this is the fact that the interdiction minigame is heavily biased toward the interdictor—if this was not the case the mouse could easily leave the cat with 30 or so seconds FSD cooldown and makes it to the cheese wheel unharmed. Plus the mouse usually has some payload to lose, be it cargo or bounty vouchers, the cat is not going to lose much besides being transported to the prison ship in the unlikely scenario he gets destroyed.

There is a way for the mouse to even the playing field, though—a fast, and I mean fast, ship that can outrun FDL-s and Mambas. With this, speaking from my own experience, you can make it to your destination even through chain interdictions. Though the problem with the most useful of these, Imperial Clipper, is that it needs rank grind to unlock and can't land on medium pads. Orca is a good alternative, but also can't land on medium pads and has less cargo room. Phantom is medium-sized and carries as much as an Orca, but can't outrun Mambas. Oh, and you need G5 dirty drag drives (and advanced rhrusters for some ships) for this to work, so not a n00b-friendly tactics even though Sidey, Adder, Viper and Cobra can all be built speedy enough

 

[Rat Catcher]

high-wake, high-wake, low-wake ...

Or just high wake then emergency stop, no drop-in POI left that way, I believe.

 

[S0rkvild]

Is Cobra mk4 going to be available in pre-built ships too?

 

[Northpin]

Is Cobra mk4 going to be available in pre-built ships too?

my 5.5 years of frustrations related to not being able to get the Mk4 will definitely lead to this

 

[aRJay]

Is Cobra mk4 going to be available in pre-built ships too?

The pre builds seem to be a step up for starters ship, as the CMk4 is obviously an end game ship no it won't be.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I don't agree with selling pre-built ships for real money in the Frontier Store. Regardless of the intent or surrounding whatevers. IMO it goes against my understanding of the game philosophy of Elite Dangerous. This is an obvious stepping stone for things to come. I don't like what this foreshadows.

Game philosophy aside I also think its a cheep attempt to "improve the game". Rather than advancing and improving gameplay... introducing methods to sidestep it. Especially for cash. If FDev needs cash... then sell more gameplay. Put your energy into developing an Odessey DLC expansion pack. There is no immediate need to redesign major components or create entirely new elements... just expand on the existing foundations.

 

[SergMx]

I don't agree with selling pre-built ships for real money in the Frontier Store. Regardless of the intent or surrounding whatevers. IMO it goes against my understanding of the game philosophy of Elite Dangerous. This is an obvious stepping stone for things to come. I don't like what this foreshadows.

Game philosophy aside I also think its a cheep attempt to "improve the game". Rather than advancing and improving gameplay... introducing methods to sidestep it. Especially for cash. If FDev needs cash... then sell more gameplay. Put your energy into developing an Odessey DLC expansion pack. There is no immediate need to redesign major components or create entirely new elements... just expand on the existing foundations.

To invest in a future addition you need money now. How to get it?

 

[Greasetrap42]

To invest in a future addition you need money now. How to get it?

Please read posts prior to replying.

 

[SergMx]

Please read posts prior to replying.

It's not my native language and maybe the translator didn't translate something correctly. I apologize.
I thought that they ask for a new DLC in the beginning and only then money.

 

[Fizzatron]

Careful with that, the common sense. It should've been common sense that Engineering, ship and on foot, being the way it is and for this long would be a "bad move", but here we are. At least now finally something is being done about it.

One of the points mentioned increasing backpack storage, so I would say that's a very strong hint that onfoot engineering is part of it, and quite possibly the bulk of it.

 

[SergMx]

One of the points mentioned increasing backpack storage, so I would say that's a very strong hint that onfoot engineering is part of it, and quite possibly the bulk of it.

This is bad, as the leg engineering is very small and there is a special modification on the spacesuit. I would prefer an increase in module limit, I have some T10's under that but it's still not enough
On the legs you need to know what to collect, there is a lot of junk that can not even be exchanged, only to sell

 

[Fizzatron]

This is bad, as the leg engineering is very small and there is a special modification on the spacesuit. I would prefer an increase in module limit, I have some T10's under that but it's still not enough
On the legs you need to know what to collect, there is a lot of junk that can not even be exchanged, only to sell

That's just me talking, nothing official, because onfoot engineering hasn't had a second pass that I'm aware of and ship engineering probably only needs some tweaking. Again, IMO. Hopefully Frontier will take some of the best bits of both and integrate them so both onfoot and ship engineering will be better overall and more consistent.

 

[Rat Catcher]

That's just me talking, nothing official, because onfoot engineering hasn't had a second pass that I'm aware of and ship engineering probably only needs some tweaking. Again, IMO.

A reasonable comment - engineering for both ship & foot outfitting really needs to have major improvements if FD wants to attract new players. I have enjoyed engineering over the years, but with 5 accounts now, even I sometimes wish it was simpler to accomplish - even if only the time factor was addressed.

Hopefully Frontier will take some of the best bits of both and integrate them so both onfoot and ship engineering will be better overall and more consistent.

I've done very little on-foot engineering, but that may be because I was lucky and found G3s with the bits I really wanted in the past!

 

[Markov Chaney]

[pls ignore, ninja'd]

 

[Rat Catcher]

[pls ignore, ninja'd]

No! I won't

 

[Fizzatron]

I've done very little on-foot engineering, but that may be because I was lucky and found G3s with the bits I really wanted in the past!

I have done a grand total of zero onfoot engineering. Found a lot of good enough gear in Pioneer Stores, sure it was expensive but I'm pretty loaded in the game. It's not due to me being offput by it, I just haven't gotten around to it yet as I've been able to make do thus far Thargoids have been my main focus for a while now, rather than onfoot activities. I'm looking forward to it being a bit more streamlined though to be fair..