Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[Shadowsnog]

i for one welcome the prebuilt ships.
pricing them at the ~15 eurodollarpounds is a bit of a stretch though.
a tenner is the absolute maximum id see myself paying for a (somewhat suboptimal) newbie ship. the value in gameplay that the ship brings is just not worth more.
if the reason for higher pricing is the value of paints and kits that the purchase brings, then they are detrimental to the package and push the effective value of the purchase down while pushing the price up.

and if hooking cosmetics to newbie ships is a mechanism for the developer to ramp the price (of a very mediocre ship) up, then that i see as a predatory practice. especially when the product is (as we guess) aimed at starting players looking for a crutch (and not a pricy bling).

to me it would make sense if the prebuilts were in two categories. simpler, cheaper, affordable; and shiny, strong and costly. something like:
basic ship with no kits, maybe a simple paint, and one effective unlock module. (preengineered surface scanner for exploration, nanite torp for bombing...) for the price of 8k arx.
good ship with some unlocked and engineered modules with paint and kit for 16k.
(and maybe package of multiple ships around the 50k...)

if we thought that kits and paints attract established players to spend arx, and having 'plugnplay' ready ship is the attraction for new player to spend arx, then mixing them would maybe get some established players to spend the arx on a useless package (as they probably dont need the ship at that point and buy just for the cosmetics), but it might also deter some of the newer players from potential spending.
i think we all know that the space whales dont swim in this lake, so having a pond for the small fry here would be nice...

 

[SergMx]

i for one welcome the prebuilt ships.
pricing them at the ~15 eurodollarpounds is a bit of a stretch though.
a tenner is the absolute maximum id see myself paying for a (somewhat suboptimal) newbie ship. the value in gameplay that the ship brings is just not worth more.
if the reason for higher pricing is the value of paints and kits that the purchase brings, then they are detrimental to the package and push the effective value of the purchase down while pushing the price up.

and if hooking cosmetics to newbie ships is a mechanism for the developer to ramp the price (of a very mediocre ship) up, then that i see as a predatory practice. especially when the product is (as we guess) aimed at starting players looking for a crutch (and not a pricy bling).

to me it would make sense if the prebuilts were in two categories. simpler, cheaper, affordable; and shiny, strong and costly. something like:
basic ship with no kits, maybe a simple paint, and one effective unlock module. (preengineered surface scanner for exploration, nanite torp for bombing...) for the price of 8k arx.
good ship with some unlocked and engineered modules with paint and kit for 16k.
(and maybe package of multiple ships around the 50k...)

if we thought that kits and paints attract established players to spend arx, and having 'plugnplay' ready ship is the attraction for new player to spend arx, then mixing them would maybe get some established players to spend the arx on a useless package (as they probably dont need the ship at that point and buy just for the cosmetics), but it might also deter some of the newer players from potential spending.
i think we all know that the space whales dont swim in this lake, so having a pond for the small fry here would be nice...

Paint kits are needed to play in solo mode, to scare the Thargoids

Speaking of paint, and anyone familiar with paint colors, maybe it's some specialty paint and it's just not available at the store. So that if a person plays in open mode, all those around him immediately saw that he has a purchased ship and made 2 times ku.

P.S. Stop. I don't quite get it, I was perusing the build in the store a week ago and there was a Shard Cannon, now I see the Gauss already there. I don't get it.
It was 127,2(A-X=54%,DUR=25s) damage, now it's 107,6(A-X=55%,DUR=9s)

 

[Rat Catcher]

The leader is not for experienced players but for beginners ? Hmm. I've studied the Chief build carefully and I won't say it's wrong. It needs some engineering, but otherwise it's a normal ship.
(in my opinion)

The pre-built Chieftain will permit a player to sample several aspects of AX combat with no risk of running out of credits when their ship blows up multiple times as they learn.
In time they will modify it to suit how they wish to play, which is probably intended, but, as it stands, it is a ship to play without risk, which is excellent for a newer player.

 

[SergMx]

The pre-built Chieftain will permit a player to sample several aspects of AX combat with no risk of running out of credits when their ship blows up multiple times as they learn.
In time they will modify it to suit how they wish to play, which is probably intended, but, as it stands, it is a ship to play without risk, which is excellent for a newer player.

Thank you for the answer, that's understandable.
But how do you explain the change of weapons and the lowering of DPS? Is it easier for a beginner to hit with a gauss ? I don't really believe that.

 

[Rat Catcher]

But how do you explain the change of weapons and the lowering of DPS? Is it easier for a beginner to hit with a gauss ? I don't really believe that.

I don't think the loadout will be finalised until it is actually being sold.
FD may be reacting to feedback from players (which, of course, is not necessarily a great idea, if only as there are 2 camps wanting different end results) or just trying to make the ship too versatile.

In other words, I have no idea, although it will be interesting to see what is actually sold.

 

[SergMx]

I don't think the loadout will be finalised until it is actually being sold.
FD may be reacting to feedback from players (which, of course, is not necessarily a great idea, if only as there are 2 camps wanting different end results) or just trying to make the ship too versatile.

In other words, I have no idea, although it will be interesting to see what is actually sold.

Shard has an armor penetration of only 60, gauss has it already 140, but this only affects the interceptor fight (gauss take off armor and destroy hearts from MC)
But the presence of nanite torpedo shows that this ship is for destroying Titan, and the bare core does not care about the penetration factor and the damage of the Shard will be higher.

P.S. I wonder what the armor strength of different interceptors is....

 

[Kailoren]

P.S. I wonder what the armor strength of different interceptors is....

Cyclops - 100
Basilisk - 140
Medusa - 175
Hydra - 220

 

[Fizzatron]

The Chieftain has a beam laser which is useful only for the Thermal Vent experimental, which it doesn't come with. I think that should be in the prebuilt.

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

The Chieftain has a beam laser which is useful only for the Thermal Vent experimental, which it doesn't come with. I think that should be in the prebuilt.

It should def. be in the prebuilt - I had to take 3 day detour to get a Beam Laser with Thermal Vent (and Long Range also) at the respective Engineer - which will be an unknown game play for anyone new to ED.

New starters should be able to get straight in to AX to help out - don't need weeks of (grind?) finding out about 'Engineering' - they should almost get a sort of 'Shoot-Em-Up' ED to start and then all that can come later, if they stick around in ED.

I only found out what its use was in keeping me cold around the Titan after looking around the forums.

Also, no idea about Shard or Gauss - I thought the best for a Titan 'Bomber' is AX Missiles or AX Multi-cannon when shooting at the core.

Hopefully only the 'small' (size 2?) Nanite Torp is supplied - no need for the size 3 over 2 as we only need 1 shot per vent then move on to the next - preferable to keep the size 3 for Missile or MC for the Core.

 

[Kailoren]

Also, no idea about Shard or Gauss - I thought the best for a Titan 'Bomber' is AX Missiles or AX Multi-cannon when shooting at the core.

Hopefully only the 'small' (size 2?) Nanite Torp is supplied - no need for the size 3 over 2 as we only need 1 shot per vent then move on to the next - preferable to keep the size 3 for Missile or MC for the Core.

• The best is AX Missles (sirius pre-engineered) or AX Multi-Cannon (Azimuth pre-engineered) for shooting at the core.
• Small is Class 1, it comes with a Medium. I honestly have no idea why this is either. Just because the ship has a C2 slot doesn't mean a C2 weapon needs to go there

 

[Shadowsnog]

an unknown game play for anyone new to ED.

to be fair that can be said about the ax combat as a whole. while the vent beam is obviously lacking in our eyes, newbie has no idea why should he check his heat...
that one chief isnt made for cold orbiting, but for being able to somehow get to the titan and do some damage. for which it suffices. even if a newbie was about to start doing ax combat, he would (hopefuly) go for an invaded ground port or a similar scenario, where the vent beam isnt a necessity either...
however
this would be solved by expanding the prebuilt fleet and differentieting the ships. cheaper basic titan bomber with a torpedo vs more costly build with guardian weapons, engineered drives and basic vent beam...

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

to be fair that can be said about the ax combat as a whole. while the vent beam is obviously lacking in our eyes, newbie has no idea why should he check his heat...
that one chief isnt made for cold orbiting, but for being able to somehow get to the titan and do some damage. for which it suffices. even if a newbie was about to start doing ax combat, he would (hopefuly) go for an invaded ground port or a similar scenario, where the vent beam isnt a necessity either...
however
this would be solved by expanding the prebuilt fleet and differentieting the ships. cheaper basic titan bomber with a torpedo vs more costly build with guardian weapons, engineered drives and basic vent beam...

Agreed, If the prebuild just runs at 20% or below, there is no need for TVBeam to cool down at the Titan,
you can actually scoot around, do the vents, then core, then simply drive away with or without boost to escape the blue 'torus' shutdown field and wait for the next run as the Thargs coming after you soon lose interest in you when you near the asteroid fields and wait.

I initially ignored TVBeam as there is no way I could do that 'cold orbiting' thing whilst looking around and shooting at only certain targets at certain times and had to avoid (agro'ing?) certain targets - I simply cannot multi-task that much! (I realise it is simple for many FPS/Shoot-Em-Up gamers)

I initially stuck to Invasions during the start of the war - invaded stations or planetary ports were great until Invasions stopped in Oct/Nov 23, and then Sampling became the way - eugh!

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

You can't strip the modules off the pre-built ships and store them. They can only be used on the pre-built ship, and if you remove them to replace them with different modules, you have to 'sell' them for 0 credits.

Since you can't put them on other ships, why in the world can't you store them in case you want to put them back on later? That's really disappointing.

Yes, I suppose I could remove any of my modules from the Python MK II pre-built, self-destruct it, and get my ship back with all the modules... but that will prevent me from applying engineering to any of the modules I might want to swap in and out.

I really don't get why some didn't think of putting in a special storage for this or giving you the option to magically reinstall one of these modules if you change your mind later (though that still wouldn't solve the engineering issue).

Hmm, I might hold off on getting the early access AND the pre-built version of the Python MKII now.

 

[aRJay]

Since you can't put them on other ships, why in the world can't you store them in case you want to put them back on later? That's really disappointing.

The simplest way to prevent the modules being used on other ships is to only let you sell them not store them.

Yes, I suppose I could remove any of my modules from the Python MK II pre-built, self-destruct it, and get my ship back with all the modules... but that will prevent me from applying engineering to any of the modules I might want to swap in and out.

I really don't get why some didn't think of putting in a special storage for this or giving you the option to magically reinstall one of these modules if you change your mind later (though that still wouldn't solve the engineering issue).

Hmm, I might hold off on getting the early access AND the pre-built version of the Python MKII now.

I am not sure I am seeing the engineering issue, any modules that can be engineered can be done so while in the P2 and in a rebuy situation you get back what is on the ship at the time so no engineering loss there.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

The simplest way to prevent the modules being used on other ships is to only let you sell them not store them.


I am not sure I am seeing the engineering issue, any modules that can be engineered can be done so while in the P2 and in a rebuy situation you get back what is on the ship at the time so no engineering loss there.

Because the P2 has a lot of good equipment on it that might be worth engineering, but you might also want to swap out: e.g. all 4 C3 multicannons, the HRPs, and the 5 0A Shield Boosters.

Also, just to avoid the headache of losing the engineered version - one will want to get rid of the lightweight bulkheads, replace with military, then store those and buy lightweight again (zero cost) just so you can still have your lightweight engineered without losing it in a swap. And yes, there are some ships that I switch out between G5 Heavy Duty lightweight bulkheads and G5 whatever military (or the other two more expensive ones).

I get try to prevent exploits. But this no storage at all approach seems like they once again didn't think it all through. sigh

 

[Rat Catcher]

But this no storage at all approach seems like they once again didn't think it all through.

Bulkheads are 'marked' as only for a single ship class, the modules from the pre-built could have a similar watermark, making them only able to be installed back to the same ship

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Not letting you uninstall modules from the pre-built ships might be for your own protection, imagine trying to find them in the outfitting UI nightmare among your other 200 modules filling up your module storage.

Then again, because you can't use the store-multiple feature in outfitting to uninstall all your weapons quickly you're forced to sell all the hardpoints off the prebuilt python mk2 one at a time and go through the animation each time.

You might want to do that still if you really want a ship with an A-rated SCO/better optimized mass drive early.

 

[rootsrat]

There is one potential quite nasty exploit with these pre-built ships - especially combat-oriented ones.

If someone gets a Wanted status, they can potentially sell their hot ship and re-deploy perfectly clean brand new pre-built ship. (This is an assumption, I did not actually test that).

They'd obviously lose any engineering they did, so it's extremely important that the pre-built ships are not fully engineered... But even without the engineering, this is already an exploit of the current Crime and Punishment system.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I thought swapping hot ships as a means to "clean" yourself wasn't a thing anymore, since Odyssey (live 4.0 too?) attaches bounties to the CMDR and not the ship?

 

[Rat Catcher]

I thought swapping hot ships as a means to "clean" yourself wasn't a thing anymore, since Odyssey (live 4.0 too?) attaches bounties to the CMDR and not the ship?

The ship gets it too... At least until the CMDR comes clean... I had a bounty on a couple of ships for a while during the time I had to wait for Not. 10 to get to zero... Paid off and put Not. back where it belongs!