Europe pack: megathread

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yoav_r

yoav_r
I've seen like 5 threads today devolving into debates over various aspects of a potential european pack, and the North America pack is not even out yet.

So I think here would be a great place to discuss the potential for a european pack, the candidates, the dream scenarios and nightmare scenarios, and so on snd so forth.

For summary, we currently have 7+1 european species:
  1. Timber wolf
  2. flamingo
  3. reindeer
  4. polar bear
  5. grey seal
  6. moose
  7. arctic fox
  8. Sacred scarab beetle (exhibit)
 
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KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
I dont need a thread, i need people to stop disrespecting my native fauna for no reason besides personal bias, but trying to make it seem objective. Thank you everybody if you could stop that, i couldnt care less if you dont want european animals personally, but please stop rubbing that into other peoples faces for the 10th time, have a nice day
 

DragonNTiger

D
Another European Pack thread? I'll just repost this then...

=-=-=-=
Talking about the European Pack already? Actually no, we've been talking about it for a long time... so according to the metalist (as of 9/23/21) it should include some of the following...
  • Przewalski's Horse - Number 4; didn't think it counted, but apparently Ukraine--one of the places it's been reintroduced--was part of its natural habitat.
  • Eurasian Lynx - Sitting at number 5; the Spanish Lynx is there too, but it ranks at 28.
  • African Crested Porcupine - Number 8; despite the name, they're also found in Italy, so it is qualified (so, kinda like the Cassowary).
  • Wolverine - Number 12.
  • Red Fox - Number 13.
  • Alpine Ibex - Sits at 16; I personally prefer the Spanish Ibex, but it doesn't seem to even be on the list.
  • Walrus - Sits at 18, just barely qualifying as a European animal.
  • Red Deer - Number 20.
  • European Badger - Sits at 27, although I kinda doubt we'd get both it and the Wolverine.
  • Wild Boar - Way down there at 47.
  • Saiga - Way, way down there at 66; turns out a tiny bit of Kazhakstan is part of Europe (who knew?).
  • Alpine Marmot - Really way down there at 122... I mean, they added the Prarie Dog, right?
  • Harbor Seal - Sitting at an abysmal 140...
I think that's all, but I could be wrong...
=-=-=-=

So yeah, it's not like there isn't plenty of fine options. Frankly, I think a lot of the Europe haters are being silly; they keep saying there's no headliner animal, but at this point in time those sorts of animals are becoming extremely rare anyways... not to mention the concept of what counts as a headliner is fairly subjective; I saw one person suggest the Dromedary Camel would count as one... even though it sits down at 25 right now (if that's an all-star pack seller, why is it so low?).
 
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DragonNTiger

D
12344321 said:
I think you left out Raccoon Dog's (or Tanuki), Saiga Antelope (European Kazakhstan/Russia), Przewalski's Horse (Ukraine/Belarus), and Barbary Macaque (the only monkey's found in Europe)!
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Raccoon Dogs and Barbary Macaque were introduced to Europe; they're not natural... not so sure about the Przewalksi's Horse and Saiga; says they were once found wild in Europe in the past, but I'm not sure that counts... otherwise we'd be adding the Striped Hyena to the list.
 

12344321

1
Raccoon dogs are in Europe. Not introduced.

It's debated how barbary macaques made it to gibraltar....but they are now naturalized. If you don't approve of their inclusion I assume you don't approve of Dingos in the game either.

Saiga Antelope are like I just said in European Kazakhstan and European Russia lmao 🤣

And Przewalski's Horses were once found in Europe. Have been extirpated GLOBALLY, pronounced Extinct in the Wild. So they don't exist anywhere for a while except zoos. Now they are arguably the singpe greatest reintroduction success story in conservation. And they have been successfully reintroduced into their natural range (Gobi desert mongolia, China, and parts of Belarus, Ukraine....both in Europe...hence a Europe pack).
 

yoav_r

yoav_r
12344321 said:
I think you left out Raccoon Dog's (or Tanuki), Saiga Antelope (European Kazakhstan/Russia), Przewalski's Horse (Ukraine/Belarus), and Barbary Macaque (the only monkey's found in Europe)!
Click to expand...
Raccon dogs and barbary macaque's are invasive. Saiga and wild horses are tough cases, they once were in Europe, but went extinct long ago. I would keep them for an endagered pack, not a europe pack.
 

12344321

1
Saiga are not extinct in Europe what are you talking about. I have said repeatedly Kazakhstan and Russia....what is happening. Parts of Russia and Kazakhstan are a part of the continent of Europe. 🇪🇺

You are right about raccoon dogs being introduced! I can admit my mistake.

Why are you ignoring saiga antelope being from Europe? Haha what do you get from that, just google it...

And extinct long ago is also not even close to true... I'm not talking about the ancient ancestors of the domestic horse....I'm talking about Przewalski's Horse which went extinct in the wild in 1969 (not a long time ago lol) and they have been successfully REINTRODUCED to Europe (Ukraine and Belarus, the largest reserve is the Chernobyl exclusion zone, which is now an unofficial wildlife reserve)

Just like the Wisent, which was only found in Poland and Belarus on European reserves. It has also been successfully reintroduced across Europe.
 
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yoav_r

yoav_r
12344321 said:
Saiga are not extinct in Europe what are you talking about. I have said repeatedly Belarus and Ukraine....what is happening.

You are right about raccoon dogs being introduced! I can admit my mistake.


Why are you ignoring saiga antelope being from Europe? Haha
Click to expand...
Not according ti wikipedia. They do have a park with saigas, but no actual saigas in nature, according to what I could find.
 

12344321

1
So they have nature reserves (massive sprawling thousands of km's squared nature reserves outdoors) but that doesnt count as nature....to you?


What?
 

DragonNTiger

D
12344321 said:
Raccoon dogs are in Europe. Not introduced.

It's debated how barbary macaques made it to gibraltar....but they are now naturalized. If you don't approve of their inclusion I assume you don't approve of Dingos in the game either.

Saiga Antelope are like I just said in European Kazakhstan and European Russia lmao 🤣

And Przewalski's Horses were once found in Europe. Have been extirpated GLOBALLY, pronounced Extinct in the Wild. So they don't exist anywhere for a while except zoos. Now they are arguably the singpe greatest reintroduction success story in conservation. And they have been successfully reintroduced into their natural range (Gobi desert mongolia, China, and parts of Belarus, Ukraine....both in Europe...hence a Europe pack).
Click to expand...
Everything I see in regards to Raccoon Dogs and Barbary Macaques say they're introduced and therefore definitely not natural...

You may be right about the Saiga; a very small part of western Kazhakstan is considered part of Europe it seems.

The Przewalski's Horse is... complicated... although I think it says they were once native to Ukraine and were reintroduced there.
 

12344321

1
I also just used the internet and very, very quickly found this.

50,000 saigas survives today in Kalmykia, Russia.

Kalmykia, Russia is found in Europe.

Therefore, Saiga Antelope are found in Europe. 👌
 
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12344321

1
DragonNTiger said:
Everything I see in regards to Raccoon Dogs and Barbary Macaques say they're introduced and therefore definitely not natural...

You may be right about the Saiga; a very small part of western Kazhakstan is considered part of Europe it seems.

The Przewalski's Horse is... complicated... although I think it says they were once native to Ukraine and were reintroduced there.
Click to expand...

They went extinct from the whole Earth....so you could argue they had no continent for a while...but their native range is parts of eastern europe. Which is where they were reintroduced. They were reintroduced from zoos, back into their native range, Eastern Europe. Which isn't complicated.

If they are extinct.

You can't say they are Asian species but not European now. They either don't belong to any continent....or they belong to both Europe and Asia which was their original native range.
 

DragonNTiger

D
Tyrannohotep said:
Would the Wisent (or European bison) be a possibility? Or would it be too similar to the American bison already in the game?
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I don't think a lot of people would care for what is essentially the European version of an American animal... it'd be like adding the European Beaver... how different would it actually be?
 

Bearcat9948

Bearcat9948
I would say the candidates for a European Animals pack would be
  • Alpine ibex
  • Eurasian or Iberian lynx
  • Eurasian badger
  • Golden jackal
  • Red fox
  • Red deer
  • Fallow deer
  • Great white pelican
  • Chamois
  • Wild boar
  • Wolverine
  • Saiga
  • Capercaillie
I don't dislike any of these but they don't exactly excite me. I'd rather we get one or two for instance like a Temperate Animals pack, like the Eurasian lynx and Fallow deer, alongside temperate animals from other places.
 
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