Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Agreed. Elite Dangerous is best when you just do what you want when you want.
Everyone's becoming a Pirate or Miner - Fdev something for the Lawful Combat Pilot?
Agreed. Elite Dangerous is best when you just do what you want when you want.
If tons of people are becoming pirates, then there should be tons of new opportunities for bounty hunters to hunt said pirates. That's how it's supposed to work, at least. Miners find valuable stuff and flock to a spot, pirates try to steal said stuff, and bounty hunters hunt the pirates.
Let's step backward in time from this enlightened <cough> 3305 ...way back top the 20th and 21st centuries. Certainly, the rampant nationalism of the day was leveraged to a great degree in getting warriors of all types to put their lives on the line in the interest of good. But whether you were the tip of the spear for a lawful society or a critical member in a support role, one thing was universal across cultures: Military service members did not do it for high pay. Nor did the other heroes of the day: society's First Responders.
The truth is, those who volunteer for the hard life and dangerous work of keeping the wolf away from society's doors have never been paid well. They've often lived at (and sometimes below!) the poverty line, sometimes even requiring subsistence assistance from the society they're defending to make ends meet.
But, in most cultures, they signed up, they trained hard, they endured hardship; because having a Profession that served society, with the pride and camaraderie that often came with it, was its own reward. Those white knights didn't just have jobs. They had something much greater in value.
Almost every one of those service members, those law enforcement personnel, those fire fighters and others, could have made more money doing something else if that was their motivating factor. But having an identity associated with propping up an oftimes shaky-seeming civilization, with defending a valued way of life from those who just wanted to watch everything burn, found intangible rewards much more important than mere coin.
As it was a thousand years ago and more, thus it is today.
Sure, some of us have to find secondary jobs to make ends meet and provide for our children. But those are just a means to an end. The end is making society a better place.
And if we get to take out some of the galaxy's lowlifes along the way? So much the better. ;-)
While being a villainous scum would be a sad path to choose, no doubt rooted in some shortcoming in the criminal's self-esteem, genetic, or work-ethic shortcomings, I like the idea (all RP aside) of acknowledging the undeniable difference between preying on (and destroying the ships of) Pilot Federation Members vs the rest of the spacefaring population.
And it seems like the ultimate cowardice for such a predator to murder others in Open when it's convenient, but slink away into Solo or PG when they themselves don't want to be interfered with. Certainly one does not accidentally acquire a high notoriety.
And nobody would champion cowardice, would they? Really?
Therefore, locking people with high notoriety into Open would seem to be a universal good, and a reasonable thing to do.
...and, of course, some mechanism for preventing cowardly methods of letting notoriety -- already WAY too artificially short-lived -- decrease rapidly while the criminal just sits inactive for a short period of time, hiding from consequences of their actions inside a station or sitting on a planet (or any other otherwise isolated instance) is just poor and unimaginative community design.
Au contraire! For the vast majority of criminals, crime doesn't really "pay." Most of the low-level criminals in any organization often barely make minimum wage (and that's even considering time only spent OUTSIDE of prison). In most cases, criminals are banal, stupid, and often lazy. The only ones living large are those at the top. For the most part, underlings get subsistence, protection, and the sense of belonging and (an often illusory) security, that is often their greatest driver.
The rest -- and the belief that criminals as a whole make more than society's more lawful grinders, is just marketing.
And I think this game is evidence that there are those who need absolutely no reward at all -- and in fact will actually happily incur expenses -- just to be jerks to others. Their unfortunate reward comes from nothing other than having "dominated" someone who wasn't even making an attempt to play their PvP game. Sad and silly, but true.
Hoo-AH!
The truth is, those who volunteer for the hard life and dangerous work of keeping the wolf away from society's doors have never been paid well. They've often lived at (and sometimes below!) the poverty line, sometimes even requiring subsistence assistance from the society they're defending to make ends meet.
But, in most cultures, they signed up, they trained hard, they endured hardship; because having a Profession that served society, with the pride and camaraderie that often came with it, was its own reward. Those white knights didn't just have jobs. They had something much greater in value.
Almost every one of those service members, those law enforcement personnel, those fire fighters and others, could have made more money doing something else if that was their motivating factor. But having an identity associated with propping up an oftimes shaky-seeming civilization, with defending a valued way of life from those who just wanted to watch everything burn, found intangible rewards much more important than mere coin.
As it was a thousand years ago and more, thus it is today.
Sure, some of us have to find secondary jobs to make ends meet and provide for our children. But those are just a means to an end. The end is making society a better place.
And if we get to take out some of the galaxy's lowlifes along the way? So much the better. ;-)
While being a villainous scum would be a sad path to choose, no doubt rooted in some shortcoming in the criminal's self-esteem, genetic, or work-ethic shortcomings, I like the idea (all RP aside) of acknowledging the undeniable difference between preying on (and destroying the ships of) Pilot Federation Members vs the rest of the spacefaring population.
And it seems like the ultimate cowardice for such a predator to murder others in Open when it's convenient, but slink away into Solo or PG when they themselves don't want to be interfered with. Certainly one does not accidentally acquire a high notoriety.
And nobody would champion cowardice, would they? Really?
Therefore, locking people with high notoriety into Open would seem to be a universal good, and a reasonable thing to do.
...and, of course, some mechanism for preventing cowardly methods of letting notoriety -- already WAY too artificially short-lived -- decrease rapidly while the criminal just sits inactive for a short period of time, hiding from consequences of their actions inside a station or sitting on a planet (or any other otherwise isolated instance) is just poor and unimaginative community design.
Au contraire! For the vast majority of criminals, crime doesn't really "pay." Most of the low-level criminals in any organization often barely make minimum wage (and that's even considering time only spent OUTSIDE of prison). In most cases, criminals are banal, stupid, and often lazy. The only ones living large are those at the top. For the most part, underlings get subsistence, protection, and the sense of belonging and (an often illusory) security, that is often their greatest driver.
The rest -- and the belief that criminals as a whole make more than society's more lawful grinders, is just marketing.
And I think this game is evidence that there are those who need absolutely no reward at all -- and in fact will actually happily incur expenses -- just to be jerks to others. Their unfortunate reward comes from nothing other than having "dominated" someone who wasn't even making an attempt to play their PvP game. Sad and silly, but true.
Hoo-AH!
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People will jump into piracy for fun, fad, money or whatever reasons. It's a game. Role play is not required
Crime & Punishment is easily avoided, so not much game-driven consequences to crime.
What could enhance the design is to set bounties and bounty payoff based on economic loss.
Blow up a NPC ship and the rebuy cost (or another % of ship cost) is added to your bounty for others to collect and for you to pay a premium at interstellar factors to clear.
Same goes for piracy. You steal stuff and can't go to a IF to pay a token amount to clear the bounty. Piracy should have more consequences to the pirate.
I'm well aware that this need more consideration and balancing, else it could make existing C&P system worse.
Crime & Punishment is easily avoided, so not much game-driven consequences to crime.
What could enhance the design is to set bounties and bounty payoff based on economic loss.
Blow up a NPC ship and the rebuy cost (or another % of ship cost) is added to your bounty for others to collect and for you to pay a premium at interstellar factors to clear.
Same goes for piracy. You steal stuff and can't go to a IF to pay a token amount to clear the bounty. Piracy should have more consequences to the pirate.
I'm well aware that this need more consideration and balancing, else it could make existing C&P system worse.
nb4 the tired old cliche of "but muh "risk vs reward" spiel used against most PvE conversation
I've always been completely lawful combat pilot. Except for those first six months in 2015 when I dragged my sorry stern around in a Type 6 flogging toasters.
Murder, murder, state-sanctioned murder. Barely done anything else. That's all the game is to me. Killing in the name of whatever RNG-named government pays credits for it. All within the law. Made billions out of it.
Fairly sure there is literally no better way to rake in the cash than murdering for the Man all night long. Void opals? Void dopals more like.
Murder, murder, state-sanctioned murder. Barely done anything else. That's all the game is to me. Killing in the name of whatever RNG-named government pays credits for it. All within the law. Made billions out of it.
Fairly sure there is literally no better way to rake in the cash than murdering for the Man all night long. Void opals? Void dopals more like.
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Heres my theory: combat is primarily a BGS activity. It's the main way to shift power in the game world, but it doesn't pay. In fact the reason you want to MAKE money is to fund your combat activities. So the other careers are for making credits which in turn provide the resources for high-risk activities.
There are PLENTY of consequential and well developed lawful combat scenarios now, more so than anything else in the game. The CZs are revamped with objectives and phases and a "score", installations and megaships now have attack/defend scenarios, and thanks to the FSS and faction-specific USSs you now have the ability to play "police" for your faction of choice and scan for distress signals, weapons fire, and other combat related opportunities to support or impede your faction of choice. And of course there are now the Thargoid incursion states as well. All of it pays, but none of it pays better or faster or safer than "getting a real job." I think this is probably an OK thing.
There are PLENTY of consequential and well developed lawful combat scenarios now, more so than anything else in the game. The CZs are revamped with objectives and phases and a "score", installations and megaships now have attack/defend scenarios, and thanks to the FSS and faction-specific USSs you now have the ability to play "police" for your faction of choice and scan for distress signals, weapons fire, and other combat related opportunities to support or impede your faction of choice. And of course there are now the Thargoid incursion states as well. All of it pays, but none of it pays better or faster or safer than "getting a real job." I think this is probably an OK thing.
Noticed a few suggestions to help find/punish gankers, but it's already very easy. Just hang around Jameson / CGs in open and you'll find a ton. Equip a wake scanner and follow them if you don't want to / can't kill them in shinrarta. Then you just have to make them go boom. K-Warrant optional.
Not one suggestion to help find legitimate CMDR piracy targets, which is very hard especially on console.
Note the only unlawful activity that pays well is NPC piracy, and it's boring as hell. Shield tank, aggro, limpets, money. Real world unlawful activities that pay well with high risk (e.g. smugging narcotics, etc.) pay terribly in ED.
But I do agree with OP's suggestion that NPC-wise, lawful combat is underpaid compared to some other activities. Also some are infested with software bugs (e.g. defend installation, one stray bullet hits installation and you fail)
However I do not want OP coming to open to hunt the CMDR baddies. CMDR MacCait kills me easily enough in CQC already ;-)
Not one suggestion to help find legitimate CMDR piracy targets, which is very hard especially on console.
Note the only unlawful activity that pays well is NPC piracy, and it's boring as hell. Shield tank, aggro, limpets, money. Real world unlawful activities that pay well with high risk (e.g. smugging narcotics, etc.) pay terribly in ED.
But I do agree with OP's suggestion that NPC-wise, lawful combat is underpaid compared to some other activities. Also some are infested with software bugs (e.g. defend installation, one stray bullet hits installation and you fail)
However I do not want OP coming to open to hunt the CMDR baddies. CMDR MacCait kills me easily enough in CQC already ;-)
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The problem is that you're playing their game at this point, and not yours
I should not have to be forced to go after another player in a way that is rather boring, as such the gankers do. I don't have time to wait for up to all day, many hours and hours of boring-ed waiting just to pop ONE guy. I have a Dark Wheel to find, and a Raxxla. I can't be bothered to try to barely(if at all) inconvenience a dikwad who will only suffer a 1 credit rebuy because money is meaningless(not really bad though) due to Void Opals. In the end, I still lost because my 'target' still got what he wanted while I wasted up to an entire day I could have spent in a much more superior and productive manner
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Yeah, there weren't much risk nor reward in piracy before the mining boom. Now, there much more reward that it seems lawful commanders are turning to piracy as an activity (for whatever reasons).
There is a whole bunch of sanctioned activities via mission system that's not lawful in the target jurisdiction. But, no worries, whatever negative consequences gained in-game is easily negated.
This leaves out-of-game reputation where negative consequences is more sticky.
Hence, group ethos has importance and value: stand for something. Doesn't pay, but is not the point for most ethos.
Direct answer: stick to the ethos. Piracy is a niche activity that's currently a goldrush activity.
You will not be forced to wait hours for a ganker. In fact near Shinrarta/Eravate/CGs they often introduce themselves within minutes without you performing any effort at all, even on console.
Likewise, gankers find victims easily at high traffic systems. Sorry to disappoint you but those mean ol' gankers usually aren't sitting around for hours doing nothing while you perform your "superior" gameplay.
Your post does describe the state of "legitimate" CMDR piracy though, at least on console, so thanks for supporting my point on that one. Now that there are often ~40 stations to sell opals at, I suspect it's the case on PC as well. I agree with you, FDev should really introduce some more tools to quickly find CMDRs outside of Shinrarta/Eravate/CGs.
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I play in open as much as I can, if not the majority of the time. Shinrarta has got to be one of the safest systems I've ever heard of. The only "PvP" to happen there are the occasional consensual 1v1's between 2 cmdrs who are actually friends most likely testing builds or something, or just goofing off.
Then console galaxy is much different. Just yesterday:
- Some random CMDR was complaining on Jameson local "They need to make this place safer" (actual quote) after getting ganked in system
- I was rammed by two different CMDRs as I floated outside Jameson, manifest scanning docked ships (one of whom I know - and ganking is what he does)
- I saw a ram attempt on a vette as it entered the Jameson mailslot by someone with gank wing tags in their ship name
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Lawful combat is fine at the moment, I think. CZs seem to be everywhere.
Plus, define 'lawful'. You can always ally with one faction and then pirate the bejiggers out of the other faction.
Plus, define 'lawful'. You can always ally with one faction and then pirate the bejiggers out of the other faction.
Deleted member 163043
D
Except, they are pirating Anarchy systems as per the Yamiks and DtEA videos, so it all profit no risk... they do not have bounties to claim
