Exploration Scans

[Sergei Pavlov]

My two cents:

Basic Discovery Scanner: Reveals celestial objects in range in the system map. System map shows planets as black spheres. Planets revealed don't provide any additional information. Surface maps are generic blue spheres.

Intermediate Discovery Scanner: Reveals celestial objects in range in the system map. System map shows appropriate icons for each different planet (gas giants, metallic worlds, etc.). Planets revealed provide basic information. Surface maps are generic blue spheres.

Advanced Discovery Scanner: Reveals all celestial objects in the system map. System map shows precise icons for each different planet. Planets revealed provide detailed information (composition, materials, etc.). Surface maps are detailed representations of the planet.

Detailed Surface Scanner: Provides detailed surface map information with specific coordinates for POIs, geological sites and everything else the planet has to offer.

 

[Falcon_D]

Hello,
I personally like how it works in 2.1. If that's what Sandro meant by current method of scanning, then I'm ok with it.
If now or later the DSS is used to fill in the grid mesh of the planet map with a detailed map, then I'm ok with that too.
What I'm not ok with is nerfing the current way scanning is implemented in 2.1.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But seriously, what will be DSS or BSS for if you could see every single rock on a planet you just scanned with a system scanner? You could have all the objects in a system marked as discovered by you even if you just honked it with a ADS and don't know even if there are planets in that system..

They won't be marked, just visible. If you want the tag and the pay-out, you will still have to use the surface scanner.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

1-
Exploration missions for once... This would make me go to the black again. At least 5 kinds of.

2-

Ability to look at the star (from the cockpit and pinpoint and select the star) , maybe press a button to load a circle in the front of the cockpit (like a reticle) , and the star in the centre would be selected....

3-
Extra scanning distance... If you're keeping the Unknown spheres this makes sense , so you could scan more objects from the star and go investigate.
Example:

Stage 1 : Honk - scan would give you the planets position ... maybe a colour? or even the HUD stile on the system map? so you'd get a "bad res" of the planet.

This should stay the way it is now

---

Stage 2 : Select the planet and scan it. This would give you the standard data (NO SURFACE SCAN), from this point you can see the planet on the sys map, and have its surface map. (but no materials stuff and etc)

This should be about to 10-20x the distance of today.

---

Stage 3 : If interested the player can go to the planet and do the Detailed Surface scan , this would need to get closer to the planet. and would unlock the materials that can be found on the planet

This should be the actual today distance.

4-

More SPACE and SURFACE POIs, Maybe even explorers NPC (within reason from the bubble! Maybe even giving tips for newcomers! like Oh Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me stuff...)

Id like to see more space stuff actually... Id like to have a reason to carry a fuel transfer limpet (like fuel rats!)... Maybe you could find a guy stranded in space(I know we can find that already) and when you fuel him up he sends a "mission" for you to receive some extra credits as his thanks in some system, Like the starters 10k mission...

Maybe Find a data core ( like the ones we find data), that can point us to a ELP in the vicinity... A message like.... " There's no hope for me anymore, fuel is gone , oxigen is about to go out... I just wished I crash landed on that beautiful Earth like planet in (Enter the system name here)"

And so on... Stuff like that might make explorers stop their scans to investigate a POI in the depths of space more often... because they could reward then... or lead to a big tip off on a planet they might want to investigate...

 

[stephen_usher]

Hello,
I personally like how it works in 2.1. If that's what Sandro meant by current method of scanning, then I'm ok with it.
If now or later the DSS is used to fill in the grid mesh of the planet map with a detailed map, then I'm ok with that too.
What I'm not ok with is nerfing the current way scanning is implemented in 2.1.

Up until 2.2 beta 6 you'd get what you had in 2.1 with the addition of high resolution surfaces on landable planets.

In beta 7 a bug caused unscanned planets to appear black in the system map and only revealed once scanned, which started this whole debate I believe.

The current plan for 2.2 release is that it's as 2.1 until you scan a moon, which will then be revealed in all its glory.

 

[Tataboj]

They won't be marked, just visible. If you want the tag and the pay-out, you will still have to use the surface scanner.

Well, it doesn't make much sense that you wouldn't discover that planet even though you see every detail of it.

 

[Sopel3pl]

In my opinion.

First scan should only show black grid with information:
size
orbit
Atmosphere ( yes/not or tiny/normal/dense )
estimated surface temperature ( not precise )

Next scan ( detailed surface scaner ) should be changed.
This means. While scanning detailed surface scanner should have progress bar. And power of scan ( time to reach 100% ) should depend on distance to planet and planet size. But the start scanning distance shouldn't be limited by distance only power of scan. This means planet size 1 distance <= 10AU time of scan optimal 10% for 1 s, same parametr distance 20Au time of scan 5% for 1s. If you reach 10% you will see planet picture like version 2.1. You get 30% got infromation like basic surface scaner and 3D map of planet surface. You get 50% get informaton like advanced surface scaner and get parametr first discovery. You got 51 - 100% points of interst in planet will be shown on planet map.
You scan all object in star system. ( or you scan last object in system) You got extra 50% money from all discovery in system even if somebady scan it before. ( example you enter system with 5 planets, 4 of them was scaned by TOM. You scan only last one and get cash for last one + 50% for first discovery and 50% worth of the rest 4 planets in system.
It would be not bad idea if system that was first scanned completly by player bears name of explorer who will first discovery it and full scan it. It noot must be every system but by 1 out of 10. And it would be second name of the system.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, it doesn't make much sense that you wouldn't discover that planet even though you see every detail of it.

You don't see every detail of it.

 

[RevLogos]

I think the decision made for 2.2 is the right one. Longer term:

The Basic and Intermediate scanners are both nearly worthless, and not that much different. Using SOL for example, honking near the Sun with a Basic scanner might just pick up Earth, which is about 500 LS away. The intermediate scanner might just get Mars. Both have been useless for the “find the blah blah canister at some USS” mission types. To do these missions I have to scan the Nav Beacon instead, or buy the ADS, or fly around and hope I get lucky. I suggest simplifying down to two scanners, the ADS, and one Basic that goes out to at least 1500 LS.

All of these scanners are size 1 but we only have size 2 slots. Could we get a combined ADS/DSS that fits in one size 2 slot? This would give us more loadout options, and maybe make the Diamondback Explorer more viable for exploration. (It was basically nerfed with the addition of Horizons, if one wants to carry an SRV).

I see if we have landed, the surface map shows us where we are now. I’ve wanted this a few times. But the next step is to allow the DSS to give the locations of persistent POIs. Larger crash sites, geologic areas of interest, etc.

I would like to see more POIs become persistent once generated. So for example if I am exploring and come across a crash site with 6 occupied escape pods and I haven’t the cargo space, I could identify this on the Forums so someone else could pick up the poor b@stards.

More variety in POIs. Does every moon in the galaxy really have a crashed nav beacon? Also I have came across the exact same POI on worlds thousands of LY apart. (same crashed ship, same canisters, same pods). Note that being able to scan for POIs from orbit means the game needs to generate far fewer of them.

Be able to select a point on the map, and set it as a destination and fly to it. Also when panning over the map, show the lat/lon coordinates so that if someone gives me the coordinates of something interesting, I can find it on the map and select that as a destination.

I would like to see material density change based on location. The DSS could show areas of higher concentration of materials. Driving around forever looking for that 1% Yttrium becomes a bore after a while.

 

[Mengy]

On the other hand, Civilization 6 is incredibly good. Maybe that's more worth investigating than another mundane trip to Jaques.

I made the "mistake" of buying Civ 6 too. And proceeded to play it for over 10 hours since Thursday night.


I want to play Elite some today too, but Teddy Roosevelt needs my help to get our first astronauts to Mars!!!! And Russia needs to pay dearly for backstabbing us last night....

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

This is quite right. At the moment I see no need to even open the System Map. When 2.2 goes live, there still won't be a need.

So I'll get to Jaques in under a week, instead of spending months which it would have taken me if I could have had the tools to determine whether planets in a system is worth investigating. And I do mean investigating, not scan them for their credit value at a distance where the planets are still just dots. I mean actually landing on them and checking out the features.

On the other hand, Civilization 6 is incredibly good. Maybe that's more worth investigating than another mundane trip to Jaques.

And Stellaris is discounted on Steam right now. I might also need a cool-down period...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I made the "mistake" of buying Civ 6 too. And proceeded to play it for over 10 hours since Thursday night.


I want to play Elite some today too, but Teddy Roosevelt needs my help to get our first astronauts to Mars!!!! And Russia needs to pay dearly for backstabbing us last night....

Wow. I spent all that time going: wait ... what? And hunting in the civopedia for answers. I barely got out of the classical era

By the way .... have you found out which tile is going to be culture garbbed by a city and the eta for that tile? If you have, pleaeaeaease pm me. It's driving me up the wall!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I made the "mistake" of buying Civ 6 too. And proceeded to play it for over 10 hours since Thursday night.


I want to play Elite some today too, but Teddy Roosevelt needs my help to get our first astronauts to Mars!!!! And Russia needs to pay dearly for backstabbing us last night....

LOL. Seems I'm not the only one struck down with "One More Turn" Syndrome .

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Wow. I spent all that time going: wait ... what? And hunting in the civopedia for answers. I barely got out of the classical era

By the way .... have you found out which tile is going to be culture garbbed by a city and the eta for that tile? If you have, pleaeaeaease pm me. It's driving me up the wall!

I don't think you get told, it's just sort of random.....unless you purchase the tile outright!

 

[DaggerSnake]

I'd be curious to know if there is or could there be additional scan mechanics brought in by a multi-crew role, like a science or navigation officer. That could change everything again.

When it comes to Exploration gameplay, the focus should be on the quality of that moment of discovery for that player.

What's more rewarding? The first scan of a system and looking at all the thumbnails and seeing there is an earthlike at that moment? Or seeing there as a planet in the orbital sweet spot, then flying to it and getting that first visual that it's actually an Earth-like? What gameplay fits into the spirit of true exploration and first discovery?

 

[Sopel3pl]

I think the decision made for 2.2 is the right one. Longer term:

I would like to see material density change based on location. The DSS could show areas of higher concentration of materials. Driving around forever looking for that 1% Yttrium becomes a bore after a while.

Brilant idea ( almost as good as my own ). If planets would be share for parts ( for example square 100 km2 and we can scan all of them from right distance )

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think you get told, it's just sort of random.....unless you purchase the tile outright!

So in true Elite fashion, I now go to their forums and talk about the demise of Civ since they removed this vital piece of information

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[IAM GROOT]

Totally Support this Idea plus.......

Hi Sandro, from another thread I created in the Suggestions forum...

Rather than removing things from Exploration, I prefer making suggestions which adds value and reward to the act of exploration.

I say that you can add to exploration by having a map of potential Points Of Interest superimposed onto the 3D terrain map of a detailed scanned planet.

Here's how I see that could work...

1) You jump into a system, and perform the usual discovery of system bodies with your Advanced Discovery Scanner.

2) You review discovered system bodies you are interested in exploring - this is by way of the 3D terrain map which contains nothing more than the terrain at this point in time. (For landable planets). This has an advantage for non-explorer types looking for interesting planets to canyon race on, for example. (A quality of life improvement for everyone, not just explorers).

3) In order to perform a Detailed Surface Scan, you will need to get close to the planet, and go into Orbital Cruise, and do a complete orbit of a body whilst doing the Detailed Scan.

4) After the scan is complete, the 3D terrain map now has superimposed upon it a 3D Points Of Interest Map. This PoI Map might list things such as ;

a) Surface features like Geysers to explore
b) Areas on the planet with extra amounts of materials to go look for and pick up or mine
c) Generalised marked out areas with potential Unknown Things to explore (e.g. this area appears to have anomalous transmissions/features)

And many more scenarios.

So that's the idea - a Detailed Surface Scan can only be done by doing one complete circuit of a body during Orbital Cruise.

I think this would improve the actual Exploration side of the game for a number of reasons...

1) There is at least some skill needed in order to maintain an Orbital Cruise around a body.

2) The word "Detailed" to me suggests that a scan should be "up close and personal" (i.e. via Orbital Cruise)

3) IMO this mechanic would be A) Engaging, and B) Rewarding.

Regards.

100% agree with this idea, TBH in the 33rd century you would t expect to have to fly down to the surface to pick up POIs on scanners, they should be discoverable to some point from orbit in a DSS.
Also please, pretty please is it a possibility to input a set of co ordinates and set our bookmarks/route plotter to fly to it

 

[Dedhed]

Yeah, likewise. I was playing for some time before I realised you could "honk" the discovery scanner.

There are several types of scan, not all immediately obvious to the beginner :

- If you have a Basic, Intermediate, or Advanced discovery scanner fitted, you'll discover any body if/when you fly close by (not sure of the radius).
- If you assign the discovery scanner to a fire-group, and trigger it; you'll discover any bodies within 500Ls (basic), 1000Ls (intermediate) or anywhere in the system (advanced)
- If you target a body and point your ship at it and are sufficiently close, you can perform a surface scan. The distance varies by body, but stars can be scanned from thousands of Ls away while small planets might require you to be within 10Ls. If you're the first to surface-scan a body, you tag it - assuming you're the first one to sell the relevant data. Also, the surface scan in 2.2 enables you to see the body's surface in the Surface Map.
- If you also have a Detailed Surface Scanner fitted, you get increased credits for every surface scan (I've seen varying figures, from +30% to +100%). It supposedly also gives you additional information about the body you wouldn't get with a discovery scanner alone (atmosphere & composition).

Thanks for the info, the whole "fire group and hold to honk" thing was the last part of that I figured out. It's also the most useful part. I really hope stuff like this is made more obvious for new players. For about a year now I've been doing exploration in probably the most difficult way possible. Spent a couple hours in game this morning and exploration makes a *lot* more sense now.

 

[NW3]

Some folk have suggested that they would prefer to have the surface of a body revealed in the planet map by the initial basic exploration scan, as that detail can inform them whether they wish to investigate the body further. This is a reasonable suggestion.

Other folk have suggested that bodies discovered by a basic scan should remain as blank spheres in the system map until they have received the attention of a detailed surface scan, as the mystery would entice further investigation. This is also a reasonable suggestion.

And yet other folk think the current system is good to go and this is also clearly reasonable.

As others have mentioned, I think the best solution would be different grades of scanners. That would allow players any of the options above, based on how much the are willing to spend.

 

[MartinG]

Yeah, likewise. I was playing for some time before I realised you could "honk" the discovery scanner.

Took me some time to figure out, too. There really ought to be a tutorial about exploration – or, even better, a training mission.

- If you target a body and point your ship at it and are sufficiently close, you can perform a surface scan. The distance varies by body, but stars can be scanned from thousands of Ls away while small planets might require you to be within 10Ls.

While I did not perform a rigorous research (I’m pretty sure someone else did already…) I believe the distance is a linear function of the body’s radius – in other words, the scan triggers if the body’s angular diameter as seen from your ship exceeds a certain threshold (approximately). The lowest range is 5 Ls, and applies for asteroid belt clusters and black holes (I’m not sure about neutron stars).

How fast a surface scan progresses also seems to depend on the body’s angular diameter. It is fastest when within about 40% of the maximum range.

Well from my point of view the current version (2.2) is the best version, it also validates the DSS and makes it more worthwhile.

Except that the DSS is not needed to obtain surface maps.

2.2 will neither add not remove anything as far as the DSS is concerned.

On a more serious note: I really wish that the current implementation of exploration scans in the Beta had been the default since day one but I'm worried that many players who are accustomed to the 'old' way of exploring will no longer find exploration in Elite: Dangerous to be compelling game play.

That’s my feeling, too (if by “current implementation of exploration scans in the Beta” you mean the 2.2 beta 7 way; when Sandro says “current” he seems to mean the current internal beta).

Of course, had it been so, the general pace of exploration would have been a lot slower, and consequently, payouts for level 2/3 scans would have had to be a lot higher to keep balance. Not that it would be a bad thing, IMHO.

So I would suggest, go ahead as it was originally designed and then add content and gameplay on top. People, even those without beta know how it was designed to work so quite simply while the original design does have flaws people understand it.

You may be surprised to learn that, according to a post by Michael Brookes (also posted in 2 other threads), the 2.2 beta 7 way was how discovery scanners were originally designed to work.