Exploration value formulae

marx

marx
Speaking of mapping. I'm running around my various earlier finds to revisit and sometimes map the stuff there, and also been stopping by various nebulae to see how things are like there. At every one I've stopped at, even the little one on the edge of the Vulcan Gate region, people have been there since 3.3, as evidenced by mapping tags. Thing is, they are more often around bodies that have biological POIs, and AWs / ELWs can even sometimes be found unmapped. Of course, I expect that this isn't the same around popular nebulae.

Personally, I no longer fly out to ELWs or AWs if they are too far away. The FSS turret will get me all the information from anywhere, and I don't really want that second tag, nor the extra credits. I will map if I want more information, which would be POIs. Thing is, I've only ever seen biological POIs around nebulae so far, even after following proper cherry picking procedures. (See the Codex: you need life-bearing planets in the system, meaning AWs, ELWs, AL/WL giants.)

Ironically enough, the payouts for just honking are so large now that your fastest way for credits might be to only stop at valuable planets that are close by to your arrival point. I think I'll do an estimate on this later, would need to time some stuff first.
 
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BlackMirror

BlackMirror
* Get First Discoverer on planet(s), sell data (and make a note of value), go back and map planet, then resell data noting new value.
* More data without mapping bonus (with/without First Disc and with/without First Mapped)
* I'd be interested in the data for the tiny handful of terraformable metal-rich bodies out there.
Click to expand...

I've landed at Polo Harbor on my way back to the bubble. I'll take a quick look around and see if I can get some new data with these goals in mind.
 

Spaceman Si

Spaceman Si
marx said:
. Thing is, I've only ever seen biological POIs around nebulae so far, even after following proper cherry picking procedures. (See the Codex: you need life-bearing planets in the system, meaning AWs, ELWs, AL/WL giants.).
Click to expand...

I found several patches of those glow-in-the-dark sea urchin things (think they are named anenomes ?) on planets in B class star systems whilst on patrol in NGC 2362. This is an open cluster rather than a nebula, and is itself over 1kly from the nearest nebula. I wonder if the biologicals are linked to named astronomical areas in general, rather than just nebulae? Or if they are simply much more prevalent in nebulae, but are also distributed amongst normal stars?
 

MattG

MattG
iain666 said:
Sale value and details for nearly 3k bodies from my DW2 shakedown trip are at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ot0et909mybxd1s/dw2-shakedown.ods?dl=0

I can virtually guarantee there are typos when I manually copy that many numbers from game to spreadsheet so if anything's wildly off from the current model it can probably be written off to my fat fingers :D
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. An initial parse of the ~2161 bodies shows only 54 not to approximately match calculated max values. Of those, a good portion are explainable (e.g. a few marked first disc + mapped, but not first mapped. I also assumed efficiency bonus on all mappings, that might be incorrect). A good number of them are terraformable too, so might not even be worth the maximum value anyway.

It has already thrown up 1 observation - the mapping bonuses are applied before the minimum value of 500 is applied, but the first discoverer bonus is applied afterwards. That'll mean a bit of a rejig to formula once I get my head around all the variables.
 

Spansh

S
MattG said:
Thanks for this. An initial parse of the ~2161 bodies shows only 54 not to approximately match calculated max values. Of those, a good portion are explainable (e.g. a few marked first disc + mapped, but not first mapped. I also assumed efficiency bonus on all mappings, that might be incorrect). A good number of them are terraformable too, so might not even be worth the maximum value anyway.

It has already thrown up 1 observation - the mapping bonuses are applied before the minimum value of 500 is applied, but the first discoverer bonus is applied afterwards. That'll mean a bit of a rejig to formula once I get my head around all the variables.
Click to expand...

Really looking forward to getting a usable version of this so I can update my road to riches router. Great work so far.
 

iain666

iain666
MattG said:
Thanks for this. An initial parse of the ~2161 bodies shows only 54 not to approximately match calculated max values. Of those, a good portion are explainable (e.g. a few marked first disc + mapped, but not first mapped. I also assumed efficiency bonus on all mappings, that might be incorrect).
Click to expand...

Spotted those, meant to fix them, forgot. I think I may have missed the efficiency bonus once or twice, but certainly not often and I didn't record it. I'll have to add mapped and efficiency bonus Yes/No to the EDD export at some point.

Qohen Leth said:
*stolen*
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can steal what was freely offered :p
 

MattG

MattG
So rather than a formula and multiplier lookup table, I've thrown it all in a function as it's a bit easier to understand IMO (for me, anyway). It's not perfect, but it's close enough. It assumes you've looked up k already (and for terraformables/elws, k = (base k + terraformable k) for maximum terraformable value)
Code: 
        static int GetBodyValue(int k, double mass, bool isFirstDicoverer, bool isMapped, bool isFirstMapped, bool withEfficiencyBonus)
        {
            const double q = 0.56591828;
            double mappingMultiplier = 1;
            if(isMapped)
            {
                if(isFirstDicoverer && isFirstMapped)
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 3.699622554;
                }
                else if(isFirstMapped)
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 8.0956;
                }
                else
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 3.3333333333;
                }
                mappingMultiplier *= (withEfficiencyBonus) ? 1.25 : 1;
            }
            double value = Math.Max(500,(k + k * q * Math.Pow(mass,0.2)) * mappingMultiplier);
            value *= (isFirstDicoverer) ? 2.6 : 1;
            return (int)Math.Round(value);
        }
The figures still need tweaking, but you could be doing this forever and not get it _quite_ right.

One more additional point of note. The data provided by BlackMirror (thanks, btw) seems to correlate with other data I have (and a small handful of iain's), and suggests there are 2 other potential multipliers. First off, if you have previously sold (non-mapped) data for a body (perhaps before 3.3) but were not first discoverer, and then later go back to map that body, then an additional multiplier of approximately 1.23524 seems to be applied. Similarly, if you were first discoverer of the body then the multiplier is around 1.89404. I've left this out of the base calculation because it's more difficult to determine this data from the journal (though not impossible, if you have a history).
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Hi Matt,

while I find all this very fascinating and capturing, may I make a small request? You probably know the picture guides that were made up for 2.3 by CMDR_Fru https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/339546-2-3-exploration-payouts-visual-guide and Jantah https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/351200-Dashboard-planet-hologram-reference . I'm not asking you to create new artwork - but would it be possible, for us less mathematically gifted, to compile a simple table of housenumbers (2 significant figures, +-3dB accuracy) for the common planet types of averages sizes, for FSS and DSS scans?

The DWE2 CMDRs, especially the first timers with little to no exploration experience, would certainly appreciate that.
 

MattG

MattG
OK. I've used Median masses from my old analysis. These values will barely have changed, if at all.


Planet TypeTerraformable?Median mass
FSSFSS+FDFSS+DSSFSS+FD+DSS
Ammonia World0.439141434633730045977621724965
Earth-like World0.49803927029070275311262063249900
Water World0.780638997472593434156131199337
Water WorldYes0.45301126861669840011192313229773
High Metal Content Planet0.344919140703658158624169171
High Metal Content PlanetYes0.4669291639484262646831161971272
Icy Body0.01854500130015694527
Metal Rich Body0.3239333163282244131802380341
Rocky Body0.003359500130014764260
Rocky BodyYes0.1423121295043367115396011557130
Rocky Ice Body0.180686500130017525057
Class I Gas Giant69.551636384599971602146233
Class II Gas Giant476.2408752840573853118354341536
Class III Gas Giant1148.9215099952587414511963
Class IV Gas Giant2615.63537611192910466313457
Class V Gas Giant925.5758069662510402311609
Gas Giant with Ammonia-based Life170.455071774201432279312
Gas Giant with Water-based Life477.0018328832295367910616
Helium-Rich Gas Giant550.1418469002339374910818
Water Giant47.163769667173427798019


FSS = FSS but don't get first discoverer.
FSS + FD + FSS, and get first discoverer tag.
FSS + DSS = body scanned and mapped with efficiency bonus - but neither first discoverer nor first mapped
FSS + FS + DSS = body scanned, mapped with efficiency, and both first discovered and first mapped.

You could add plenty more columns for other variations, but I think this gives a gist. I've also not checked it at all, so don't blame me if it's totally wrong. Terraforming numbers assume maximum terraforming bonus, but that's by no means guaranteed.
 

khaos526

khaos526
Yes that's the kind of summary chart I like. I couldn't be bothered trying to track all the payout changes on my last 2 expeditions since the patch. I also hate spending 30+ mins cashing out the data that I don't even pay attention to what I'm getting paid out for everything. But really good to know about those Gas water giants. I just recently started DSS scanning them because I had heard they were worth it now, but good thing they aren't and I can skip them as I always have. I can also not bother with the Gas II or Metal Rich ones either according to that chart...
 

BlackMirror

BlackMirror
Pretty amazing. I don't have the math skillz to reverse-engineer something like that.

I have a few old diagrams saved, I might try editing new values onto one of them after work. No promise it will look as good though ;)
 

iain666

iain666
MattG said:
So rather than a formula and multiplier lookup table, I've thrown it all in a function as it's a bit easier to understand IMO (for me, anyway). It's not perfect, but it's close enough. It assumes you've looked up k already (and for terraformables/elws, k = (base k + terraformable k) for maximum terraformable value)
Code: 
        static int GetBodyValue(int k, double mass, bool isFirstDicoverer, bool isMapped, bool isFirstMapped, bool withEfficiencyBonus)
        {
            const double q = 0.56591828;
            double mappingMultiplier = 1;
            if(isMapped)
            {
                if(isFirstDicoverer && isFirstMapped)
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 3.699622554;
                }
                else if(isFirstMapped)
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 8.0956;
                }
                else
                {
                    mappingMultiplier = 3.3333333333;
                }
                mappingMultiplier *= (withEfficiencyBonus) ? 1.25 : 1;
            }
            double value = Math.Max(500,(k + k * q * Math.Pow(mass,0.2)) * mappingMultiplier);
            value *= (isFirstDicoverer) ? 2.6 : 1;
            return (int)Math.Round(value);
        }
The figures still need tweaking, but you could be doing this forever and not get it _quite_ right.

One more additional point of note. The data provided by BlackMirror (thanks, btw) seems to correlate with other data I have (and a small handful of iain's), and suggests there are 2 other potential multipliers. First off, if you have previously sold (non-mapped) data for a body (perhaps before 3.3) but were not first discoverer, and then later go back to map that body, then an additional multiplier of approximately 1.23524 seems to be applied. Similarly, if you were first discoverer of the body then the multiplier is around 1.89404. I've left this out of the base calculation because it's more difficult to determine this data from the journal (though not impossible, if you have a history).
Click to expand...

I reckon that's probably good enough for a first pass on an EDDiscovery scan value update at some point this week. Thanks hugely for putting the work in on this.
 

Ashnak

Ashnak
Ok, I took the liberty of remodelling/dumbing down the table into something Discord compatible. MattG, if you have any problems with that, shout out - I won't mention you as the author ;)

Code: 
╔═════════════════════════════╦═════════╦═══════════╦════════════╗
║         Planet Type         ║   FSS   ║  FSS+DSS  ║ FSS+FD+DSS ║
╠═════════════════════════════╬═════════╬═══════════╬════════════╣
║ Ammonia World               ║ 140,000 ║   600,000 ║  1,700,000 ║
║ Earth-like World            ║ 270,000 ║ 1,100,000 ║  3,200,000 ║
║ Water World                 ║ 100,000 ║   420,000 ║  1,200,000 ║
║ Terraformable Water World   ║ 270,000 ║ 1,100,000 ║  3,200,000 ║
║ High Metal Content Planet   ║  14,000 ║    60,000 ║    170,000 ║
║ Terraformable HMC           ║ 160,000 ║   680,000 ║  2,000,000 ║
║ Icy Body                    ║     500 ║     1,600 ║      4,500 ║
║ Metal Rich Body             ║  30,000 ║   130,000 ║    380,000 ║
║ Rocky Body                  ║     500 ║     1,500 ║      4,300 ║
║ Terraformable Rocky Body    ║ 130,000 ║   540,000 ║  1,600,000 ║
║ Rocky Ice Body              ║     500 ║     1,800 ║      5,100 ║
║ Class I Gas Giant           ║   3,800 ║    16,000 ║     46,000 ║
║ Class II Gas Giant          ║  28,000 ║   120,000 ║    340,000 ║
║ Class III Gas Giant         ║   1,000 ║     4,000 ║     12,000 ║
║ Class IV Gas Giant          ║   1,100 ║     4,700 ║     13,000 ║
║ Class V Gas Giant           ║   1,000 ║     4,000 ║     12,000 ║
║ G. G. w/ Ammonia-based Life ║     770 ║     3,200 ║      9,300 ║
║ G. G. w/ Water-based Life   ║     880 ║     3,700 ║     11,000 ║
║ Helium-Rich Gas Giant       ║     900 ║     3,800 ║     11,000 ║
║ Water Giant                 ║     670 ║     2,800 ║      8,000 ║
╚═════════════════════════════╩═════════╩═══════════╩════════════╝

Seriously: if you want to take the credit, I can put it in. Just don't make it too long, Discord has a 2,000 character limit, and I'm pretty close.
 

Maolagin

M
There's another variable I'm curious about here. Ever since 3.3 landed, I've been seeing a new greeting message in the station services menu when landing in systems in an Investment state - which seems much more common than before. It's some variation of "We're investing for a new expansion attempt, any exploration data will fetch a good price." Has anyone tried to measure what bonus, if any, those stations are offering for scans sold there?

Ashnak said:
Seriously: if you want to take the credit, I can put it in. Just don't make it too long, Discord has a 2,000 character limit, and I'm pretty close.
Click to expand...

You've got plenty of room to add a byline without adding to the character count. Just replace part of the bottom line of === with some "created by ..." text.
 

robbyp

robbyp
Oh good. Iain going to write the code for me hehehe

Thank you very much for all the commanders hard work. Especially Matt of course
 
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Spansh

S
iain666 said:
I reckon that's probably good enough for a first pass on an EDDiscovery scan value update at some point this week. Thanks hugely for putting the work in on this.
Click to expand...

I've rebuilt my index and have some changes which will allow the road to riches planner to use mapping value or scan value which I should be able to put live int he next couple of days
 
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