External View [A definitive discussion]

[jabokai]

Well I never claimed to have one but since you ask. 206 in favour. 325 against.

If you bothered to read the OP you'll see the very first line says "PLEASE IGNORE THE POLL! IT'S BROKEN!", in capital letters and bold, no less!

 

[Silent_Star]

I'd like an external view, but not for combat purposes.
Just for being able to see the ship that you fly and any paint jobs that you might have gotten.
As an explorer myself it would give me move possibilities to create nice screenshots.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Sorry but that's an awful response. More "no" votes than "yes" votes, the breakdown is purely for the purposes of attempting to obtain more information about why.

Try telling that to millions of voters who pick their political party or candidate or referendum choice in a first past the post vote system at every single election.

Even if we go by proportional representation, you'd have to abide by the vote and still introduce some kind of external view to placate those who voted Yes.

So, not an awful response at all.

And the argument of "if you don't want it don't use it" is a hybrid of a strawmen and a dead horse (draw your own GIF).

Please explain why that's a straw man argument or why it's a dead horse. Hint: It isn't just because you say it is.

Any work that the devs do on external views is work they are not doing on other features I would prefer to have in-game. There are enough suggestions on this board to keep the devs busy for years and not improve my gameplay experience one jot. The only way that I can express that I would rather the devs not work on this feature, for example, is to say "I don't want it". It's a very different response to "I wouldn't use it but implement it anyway".

The simple fact of the matter is that FDEV themselves sell paint jobs, yet shoot themselves in the foot by not providing any decent way of admiring something I paid for, myself. They went ahead and dreamed up an additional method of gaining income, but failed to think it all the way through to the logical conclusion that "hey, perhaps we should provide a way for people who bought these to make decent shots of their purchase in space?". They don't even provide a Space Mirror!

This is why your argument about their development time is invalid. We already know FDEV have their own way of doing external views - judging by quite a lot of videos they make, so the programming IS there - perhaps only in their own development systems and code, but the capability is there. Sure, there's also quite a lot of pre-rendered CGI in some of their videos as well (especially that laughable cinematic trailer they produced), but in other shots it's obviously in-game external views (again development-only builds). No, your argument about developer time is invalid.

So you don't want external views, fair enough. I do. Others also do. I've outlined why arguments against it are invalid earlier.

 

[jgm]

Try telling that to millions of voters who pick their political party or candidate or referendum choice in a first past the post vote system at every single election.

Even if we go by proportional representation, you'd have to abide by the vote and still introduce some kind of external view to placate those who voted Yes.

So, not an awful response at all.

The options "yes because a" and "yes because b" are both "yes". Really simple.

Please explain why that's a straw man argument or why it's a dead horse. Hint: It isn't just because you say it is.

It is a straw man because it has nothing to do with the argument for or against implementing the feature.

It is a dead horse because it has been used many times in the forums, and is based on the assumption that devs have unlimited resources. They don't.

The simple fact of the matter is that FDEV themselves sell paint jobs, yet shoot themselves in the foot by not providing any decent way of admiring something I paid for, myself. They went ahead and dreamed up an additional method of gaining income, but failed to think it all the way through to the logical conclusion that "hey, perhaps we should provide a way for people who bought these to make decent shots of their purchase in space?". They don't even provide a Space Mirror!

I agree with all of this but has nothing to do with if I think that an external view should be higher priority than other features.

This is why your argument about their development time is invalid. We already know FDEV have their own way of doing external views - judging by quite a lot of videos they make, so the programming IS there - perhaps only in their own development systems and code, but the capability is there. Sure, there's also quite a lot of pre-rendered CGI in some of their videos as well (especially that laughable cinematic trailer they produced), but in other shots it's obviously in-game external views (again development-only builds). No, your argument about developer time is invalid.

You aren't a programmer, are you? There is a massive difference between putting the camera in a specific place and running a pre-scripted set of moves and having a fully functional in-game view; the former is the tiniest fraction of the latter. I'm afraid this isn't about those nasty devs not flicking a switch to give you the feature you want, it's about a large piece of development work which will take away form other features.

So you don't want external views, fair enough. I do. Others also do. I've outlined why arguments against it are invalid earlier.

And I've told you it's not that I don't want external views, it's that I want other things more.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

The options "yes because a" and "yes because b" are both "yes". Really simple.

The poll is broken anyway - see original post at start of thread. This argument has veered off course so I'm going to stick to relevant stuff...

I agree with all of this but has nothing to do with if I think that an external view should be higher priority than other features.

Please state where in any of my posts I've demanded this feature be developed at a higher priority anyway. Hint: I haven't.

You aren't a programmer, are you? There is a massive difference between putting the camera in a specific place and running a pre-scripted set of moves and having a fully functional in-game view; the former is the tiniest fraction of the latter. <snip irrelevant passive-aggressiveness>

I am in fact a programmer. I'd cite some of the open source software I've published, but I'd like to keep my personal identifying details off the forum thanks.
My business clients would also be surprised to learn that I'm not a programmer

I do realise that an external view would take dev time. Which is why in none of my posts do I make any demands this be a high priority. In all of my posts I've said "yes there should be an external view" and suggested ways of not turning an external view into some battle advantage.

And I've told you it's not that I don't want external views, it's that I want other things more.

Well at least we agree on some things

All I'm trying to say is 1) An external view is possible, 2) Some of the arguments against it are bogus, and 3) Point out the fact that FDEV sell paint jobs but shoot themselves in the foot by not having a proper external view.

Even just from a business point of view, regarding point (3) above, it's obvious that an external view would lead to more purchases of paint jobs.

I reiterate: Nowhere have I ever demanded they implement this NOW and DROP everything else - I've merely countered some arguments against external views.

 

[nats]

I need an external view, the game is pants without one. On the list of 'things that will bring me back to playing Elite Dangerous' an external view is probably no1. Until then I am playing other things and waiting for this game to become fun.

 

[micky1up]

Right so by your own admition there is no majority

no there is no proof of a majority or minority bozo

you didnt answer the question how many people voted and how many people play the game ? funny that maybe cause it blows the whole majority /minority claims out of the water

 

[Nutter]

Hi,

I think I can speak for a few players here on the forums who would like to know if we may get to see our ships out in the black this year?

I'm personally chomping at the bit to get some nice photos and great videos out, be warned though, this will promote your product and would have a dramatic impact on sales and sales of add-on paint jobs.

So do you have any info you could share on the progress of the external view, or some recording feature that we could play back from manually placing cameras.

Are we heading towards a camera drone approach? Clearly what ever method we end up with for taking pics and video it must also make combat impossibly difficult using an external view.

Of course flying a drone armed with a camera would stop combat, but I can't keep second guessing, it's frustrating not knowing what's on the whiteboard.

So, can you give anything away regarding external views - please note this has NOTHING to do with a 'playable' 3rd person view.

Many thanks in advance.

Nutter

Oh Cool - my question got thrown in the lion pit of external view vote thread! Genius!

Never Mind - While brushing my teeth I came up with a solution to external views - which has no place in this thread - Just a heads up Moderators - I'll be posting a solution later but there is no place it can me merged - I checked

 

[Shads]

no there is no proof of a majority or minority bozo

you didnt answer the question how many people voted and how many people play the game ? funny that maybe cause it blows the whole majority /minority claims out of the water

Please re-read my input in this thread. I have never claimed a majority or minority either way and have never even expressed a preference on the topic in hand. Neither have I called anyone Bozo or otherwise tried to insult anyone. I was merely pointing out that those claiming "the majority of players want this" were making an unfounded claim.

 

[Deyn]

It is a dead horse because it has been used many times in the forums, and is based on the assumption that devs have unlimited resources. They don't.




I agree with all of this but has nothing to do with if I think that an external view should be higher priority than other features.



You aren't a programmer, are you? There is a massive difference between putting the camera in a specific place and running a pre-scripted set of moves and having a fully functional in-game view; the former is the tiniest fraction of the latter. I'm afraid this isn't about those nasty devs not flicking a switch to give you the feature you want, it's about a large piece of development work which will take away form other features.



And I've told you it's not that I don't want external views, it's that I want other things more.

So you actually think creating Camera Drones and the implementation into the game is "less effort"???

As said before, the "views" are already there... I would be perfectly happy with a "pre-scripted" Fly-by as a first compromise.

Yet, Frontier themselves said somwhere along the Design Discussions they "removed"/"blocked" or whatever the external view as people complained about the "unfair" advantage...

You seem to know the codebase of Frontier quite well, assessing from your assumptions, can you explain what pre-scripted camera options are used? Especially why coordinates can't be put in dynamically? I'm sure DX has more than one option to command a simple camera angle or movement, as does OpenGL... or did you just throw in a veeery wild guess?

 

[Deyn]

You can't see the paint job on your car when your driving, apart from what you see out of the windows. However you can see it when your parked and able to walk around it, when they implement getting out of your ship and walking round you will be able to do this.

You will then be able to see your ship in all it's glory, and whilst flying others will be able to see it, then you can be proud of your pimped up ship.

I know a few are saying the paint job is pointless because no one gets to see it, but they are wrong, I got a text chat the other day from a player who simply said 'cool paint job', I just replied 'thanks', and even though it was from the limited range we have access to at the moment it felt good.

That is why people seem to "like" playing sim games! They actually CAN see the car while driving

Imagine "The Fast & the Furious (Realism Edition)" - only camera shots from inside the car, always in the protagonist car...

 

[narv]

Wow that new chrome paintjob for the cobra looks good, shame I won't be buying it as I won't be able to actually see it.

 

[Aquila Oculus]

Not at the moment, but that might change in the future. We're aware of the desire for an external view, but it's not integral to the game so has a lower priority for now.

Michael

Oh this is great to read. SO many people would like this it's good to see you have acknowledged it and it's coming soon TM

 

[Globusdiablo]

Offline mode and external view on my wishlist

Here's my wishlist :

• Offline mode
• External view

I can dream can't I?

[video=youtube;ghzpK4WrTpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghzpK4WrTpA[/video]

What do you wish for?

Fly safe Commanders

 

[GlumReaper]

Agreed! Both on my wish list too.

Also lots more variety and content, more ships and modules.

I don't want much really...
Thinking about it the planned features like wings, planetary landings and FP mode: I'm not really fussed about.

 

[Peter_Quill]

Well they already stated that neither of those will be in the game. You can play solo if you dont want to meet other players, but still need a minor internet connection. They wont do the external view because they want to keep it as realistic as possible.

 

[Buford T Justice]

I'd be happy with just a few extra camera angles in the dock TBH

 

[Tox Laximus]

A cloaking device that bends light could be made to give you a external view and be technically possible?

I agree that the game needs a offline mode, but I guess they need the drm to stop people copying the game.

 

[Aquila Oculus]

Well they already stated that neither of those will be in the game. You can play solo if you dont want to meet other players, but still need a minor internet connection. They wont do the external view because they want to keep it as realistic as possible.

Incorrect.

Not at the moment, but that might change in the future. We're aware of the desire for an external view, but it's not integral to the game so has a lower priority for now.

Michael

There you go OP, keep the dream alive pal

 

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

Interesting, had thought the FD response to external was (foolishly) 'No', but that is interesting. Raises the obvious question though, what is integral to the game and higher on the priority list?