External View [A definitive discussion]

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

Let's be accurate about this: It's not integral to the game designers' priorities but it IS integral to Frontier's advertising of the game. It's the beautiful 3rd person screenshots that draw people in, it's the ship skins that Frontier are selling.

I know - there are games that have cinematic trailers that in no way remotely reflect the appearance of the game. It's much worse when the lie is made with the game's own engine: you expect "in-game footage" to be footage of what you'll actually see when you are in the game.

"You can see your ship in the hangar". Nope. I've never seen my Asp, only bits of it. And as far as seeing my space ship in a hangar ... I could just download and view far more interesting 3d ship models online for KSP or Orbiter.

Solution: Tell the team members who have a problem with external view that 1990 called and said it wants to be "just friends" from now on.

this! (and that)

 

[Tox Laximus]

There was something about a gravitational lens in development that can cloak an object and this is today's technology, its perfectly feasible to have a clocking device in the elite universe and to use the device to generate a external view, ED simply wont put it in because they think its impossible or using drones is a bit silly, so if you guys want external views you have come up with a way of doing it before they will listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUwfizZTas

 

[narv]

Then you have no idea about pvp, in pretty much any game, ever.

Think about it for a while, if you can't figure out why I'll spell it out again.

Making 3rd person view viable for combat will force anyone who doesn't want to gimp themselves to use it. Lets not make ED an arcadish game.

Have you ever actually played a Sim before? Ever played IL2 Sturmovik in external view without a sight showing where your fixed guns are aiming? This is just the worst argument going, people with multi monitors have a HUGE advantage over single monitor users, people with headlook and occulus rift have a HUGE advantage over non-tracking users. If you want a fair balanced fight then everyone should be restricted to FPV, mouse control and no changing the FOV whenever they enter PVP combat.

I've no intention of every doing PvP in this game, I'm a trader and explorer who gives a damm about PvP? Just doing PvP makes the game arcadey as it's very unrealistic to go to a zone just for PvP fighting. Why should everyone suffer because of a few people who have no idea what they're talking about on a very limited slice of what the game can do.

As I've said many times, I'm not buying another skin until I have a simple external camera view, I'll still play and love the game, but Frontier won't get any extra revenue from me, it's that simple.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Its fascinating how all those youtubers pvp`ing in Star citizen or flight sims (real ones not WT) never use their external cam in combat. I wonder why... yes...

 

[Daisuke Ido]

I just want to make complain about something! Can someone tell me what's the point of buying paint jobs from the store if the buyer is unable to watch his/her ship from outside all around to admire the work Frontier Developments Did?
I think it's important for marketing and must be implemented in the game (External Views)

Let's see it from another point of view: planetary/stellar screenshots. I really like exploring and out there there are truly stunning vistas. I would like to be able to take nice screenshots without having to actually fly in the right direction/alignment/whatever. Mind you, I'm not talking about a simple "craft-centric" view but a more comprehensive "anything-centric" 3rd person viev. A planet, a star, a ring, an asteroid... Call it Photo mode if you like, but I think it should really be in the game. And for those who thinks it could be spoiled for combat, let's say it could be used only in supercruise and that, I think, settles it.

What you think?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'll repeat what I've said earlier...

Just disable weapons fire control during external view and any worries about advantage have disappeared.

It's as simple as that.

 

[almostpilot]

FD lost direction about the game improvements.

The external view will not be implemented in the short or medium term.

They will prefer to focus on a way to adjust the grind that exists today for more community goals and pvp only.

Lost hope and really got tired of playing ED.

 

[NeilF]

I'll repeat what I've said earlier...

Just disable weapons fire control during external view and any worries about advantage have disappeared.

It's as simple as that.

Not entirely... Some people would still suggest the extra FOV could be used for a gain. ie: Flick in/out of the external view to use the extra FOV, and then return to the cockpit to shoot.

Personally I just think a couple of simple nerfs would mean an external view could be used at anytime. eg: A 4-5 second delay going in/out of external view - This could be a view from the drone as it left the ship, or returned to the ship. So instantly going to an external view, and returning from it, costs you 8-10 seconds for example. That's a fairly big tactical expense!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

FD lost direction about the game improvements.

The external view will not be implemented in the short or medium term.

They will prefer to focus on a way to adjust the grind that exists today for more community goals and pvp only.

Lost hope and really got tired of playing ED.

you say this like the external view was always a priority...... and yet this thread shows, it NEVER was. At best it was something to be looked at in the future as possibly a new piece of equipment or something.

elite is a game played from the CMDRs eyes so this makes adding external views more complicated than having (imo) rubbish "magic" views like in Star citizen as the views in elite need to be built into the ships HUD.

maybe when we can get up and move around we will get something like spocks scanner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0SJ9HuB5k#t=12s

 

[Sim Maker]

I play solo, can't argue the pros and cons for PvP combat.............all I know is this.

This is one stunning looking product. And FD could get a million quids worth of free advertising if YouTubers could make game vids based on external camera views.............be they exploring or combat or just watching your ship from "Tower View" crunch down on the gear when landing.

Why not have it just in Solo or Private groups?

 

[almostpilot]

elite is a game played from the CMDRs eyes so this makes adding external views more complicated than having (imo) rubbish "magic" views like in Star citizen as the views in elite need to be built into the ships HUD.

No is not too complicate, any other space/flight game more realistic and complex than ED have it. It´s just a matter of FD vision and competence.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No is not too complicate, any other flight space/flight game more realistic and complex than ED have it. It´s just a matter of FD vision and competence.

really, it did not work out so well for MWO did it?. its NOT about competence. I would wager they could add in unlimited external views right now if they wanted... its just if they did it could destroy the balance and the aims of the game if they did, and it is something the devs have said for over a year that they will not do lightly.

You presumably like the way Star Citizen does it.... Personally I worry that those views are going to completely balls up the game for the CMDRs who want to play it from a realistic standpoint. IMO research a product and then choose your purchase accordingly. Have you ever tried playing WarThunder in the cockpit view and going up against 3rd person players?

its a joke.

I am not even against external views, so long as it in no way hampers those who have no interest in it, but equally I am not so flippant as to state it is easy and assume I know it wont affect balance when the devs say otherwise.

 

[Sim Maker]

MWO being Mech Warrior Online? How is this the same?

In a mech, you are always "On the ground". you are always upright......keeping orientation is easy from internal or external views...........I am not so sure popping an external view, in a full 360 deg space sim, where you can be upside down and going backwards just as easy as right way up and sideways, in an astreroid field.............. will give the same advantages.

 

[Yank31]

maybe when we can get up and move around we will get something like spocks scanner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0SJ9HuB5k#t=12s

Omg... dude, we're trying to cry seriously here. Jesus.

Your post does stand its own logic though (built in the HUD, cmdrs eyes). I still hate it. I want to view my ship, as a 3rd person (or entity), as I can in most games.

This whole limitation for the sake of "realism" (?) doesnt make any sense to me. It's a game, hello. Looking at your awesome ship is cool. Especially if you intend to sell players paint-job, HELLO (still cant adress that one without laughing - holy moly, who in their right mind would monetize -> skins <- in a game where you can't... yeah w/e).

It's simply cool. It's... I'd love to be able to look at my ship in supercruise, at it passes by a red-orange star, and spill some drool on my desk as I witness the lights caressing the hull. Or take a selfie in front of a station. The lights are awesome in this game. Well w/e, nobody reads this thread anyway.

And for combat concerns : you could always limit the 3rd view to something like : hardpoints retracted (which would suck for screenshots) or having full shield or not having received nor dealt damage for the last minute. There are ways.

Why can't this be simple. I wanna look at my ship. I'm not thrown out of immersion when my pilot (me?) instantly and freely resurrects after death. I'm cool with it, it's A GAME. God damit!

 

[almostpilot]

really, it did not work out so well for MWO did it?. ...

Read my forum signature. Limit it to SOLO MODE. NOT IN COMBAT...please do a search over this topic.

this topic is plenty of good ideas. What we don´t have is a FD action.

 

[NeilF]

elite is a game played from the CMDRs eyes so this makes adding external views more complicated than having (imo) rubbish "magic" views like in Star citizen as the views in elite need to be built into the ships HUD.

Come on... You know that's a bit unfair

A pretty standard external view could be easily hand-waviumed with the explanation of a drone. It's no more (and indeed less) hand-wavium than many other aspects of the game don't you thin?

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Read my forum signature. Limit it to SOLO MODE. NOT IN COMBAT...please do a search over this topic.

this topic is plenty of good ideas. What we don´t have is a FD action.

It would seem a fair solution, but there's lots of people who play Online and in Group who would really miss the feature IMHO. And I'm certain the simple nerfs suggested (eg: the 4-5 seconds to go in/out of the view) would in itself make it a costly tactical expense to use.

But worse case, I guess FD could implement it in Solo to start off with to trial it?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Come on... You know that's a bit unfair

Like I said, and as you probably remember, I am not against it, hell, there are times I would maybe even use it.... AND I am not interested in PvP personally either BUT, I just accept it is a low priority for FD and if it is to be done I want it done well.

if it happened tomorrow, but with nerfs in place to stop people using it as the defacto combat view I would be happy... but equally I realise from FDs viewpoint they see it that they have more important stuff to do 1st. Its not that I am against it..... more that I am against slagging off FD for not suddenly making it a priority despite them saying from the get go that it isnt one.

 

[almostpilot]

Come on... You know that's a bit unfair

A pretty standard external view could be easily hand-waviumed with the explanation of a drone. It's no more (and indeed less) hand-wavium than many other aspects of the game don't you thin?

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It would seem a fair solution, but there's lots of people who play Online and in Group who would really miss the feature IMHO. And I'm certain the simple nerfs suggested (eg: the 4-5 seconds to go in/out of the view) would in itself make it a costly tactical expense to use.

But worse case, I guess FD could implement it in Solo to start off with to trial it?

I agree. Is really a good ideia to start with solo mode. But how i said before, there is no signal from FD that will have it(at least soon enough). And this is really annoying.

 

[RoVa]

This game needs an external view mode. There is no question. At leas on the station. I've already bought few paint jobs, thought this is a great way to support developers but what I get in exchange is a locked camera in outfitting...

I don't need external camera in space. Cockpit view is great, but why can't we get it in stations?

These ship models are fantastic to look at. Would spend hours just spinning my camera around the landing pad taking screenshoots of my ship.

 

[narv]

I don't need external camera in space. Cockpit view is great, but why can't we get it in stations?

That's exactly when you do need to have it, imagine looking at your awesome ship in it's custom skin showing your elite decals hovering over an ice ring with a star and a glowing gas giant in the background... WHO ON EARTH WOULD NOT WANT THAT!! (that wasn't directed at you, just the forum in general)

Also, the external view will not have a reticule so it will be USELESS for external combat and the scanner gives me a hell of a big advantage than panning around in an external camera. This IMHO is a priority feature, not a low priority one which some people seem to gleefully declare. I'd be so happy I'd spend possibly days exploring looking at my ship and also not having the dashboard in every screenshot I take :-(