External View [A definitive discussion]

[Mack]

I just remembered a video RobFisher posted in the DDF some time back: OMSI bus simulator. If you can get past the fact you're looking at a game that simulates a double-decker bus, it has some really interesting touches. Of particular relevance to this thread is the use of third-person view in specific hand-placed locations (e.g. bus stops) to give that sense of context without taking you out of the moment while driving.

Better visibility in that bus than the sidewinder or cobra !!! (even if you do feel out of body experience whilst driving - not 3rd person quite)

 

[Dirtmuncher]

Yeah, nice work there Paxman.

Of the 300+ who voted, 300+ voted NO.

Of the 100+ who voted yes, 99% voted yes only on the condition that it couldn't be used in combat.

So about 3 people want unconditional 3rd person view*, the rest either don't want it at all, or only want it as long as it doesn't affect gameplay.

300 is actually a pretty good number for polls like this, most only get about 100 people voting.

*before you latch on to this number like a drowning man to a lifeline, look up the word hyperbole.

321 people voted.
162 voted yes to an external view (in some form)
100 people vote no.
Majority votes yes to a form of external view.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

321 people voted.
162 voted yes to an external view (in some form)
100 people vote no.
Majority votes yes to a form of external view.

George and Jeb Bush would hire you in a heartbeat if they ever ran for office again

 

[Daeron]

Might be a bit cranky at times when I don't understand the viewpoint involved. But it is easy to put tabs on the perspective of this one, so will go with the internal decision, and stay out of any exterior debate.

 

[Dirtmuncher]

George and Jeb Bush would hire you in a heartbeat if they ever ran for office again

Okay Lets look at those results. Its a multiple choice poll so 1 person can select more choices. Let's subdivide them in camps. The no people, the yes man and the middleman. First we polarize you either are for or against an external view. So we have a subdivision there. 162 unique votes of the 321 votes are for an external view. This might be more but we look at the maximum in 1 category so as not to double count.
A majority voted yes for a external view in some way, shape or form. Jeej democracy, jeej majority rule. The yes voters won the first round. Now we look in more detail at the yes camp. The majority is for yes with restrictions and OUT of combat.
Maybe some yes man also voted no and some no people could live with a yea out of combat solution.
So instead of yes or no we should discuss how the external view should be implemented, so as the 50,xx% becomes even more.

 

[tooterfish]

It's a fair interpretation.

A bit presumptuous to think it should inform what anyone should or shouldn't do though. This isn't actually a democracy.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

Democracies suck.

Those who are best able to mould public perception are best able to steer a democracy.

It only takes one ignorant vote to cancel out an informed vote.

 

[Memnoch]

FD have already "forced" everyone to use an external view in their outfitting section. Perhaps they did not believe there was enough scope in the HUD to allow for it, but that is definitely a third person view and not from the perspective of your character.

Who's to say that in this view you haven't got out of your ship and you are looking back at it as you order technicians to fit modules to your ship?

There, neatly sidestepped that one I think.

 

[Daeron]

Democracies suck.

Those who are best able to mould public perception are best able to steer a democracy.

It only takes one ignorant vote to cancel out an informed vote.

A strong centralized government to cut through endless days of wasting time and money, is always preferable. At least you know why, and where it goes.

Long live the Emperor.

 

[Memnoch]

A strong centralized government to cut through endless days of wasting time and money, is always preferable. At least you know why, and where it goes.

Weapons and oil/land grabs usually.

 

[NeilF]

Just a small comment.

There's been mention that any external view (eg: view from an external droid) should not be full screen and instead be on a monitor as it would break "the immersion".

It's interesting to note the galactic map in Alpha 4 is guilty of this very thing? ie: You press a button and straight away your entire FOV is no longer the cockpit but instead an alternative view, the Galaxy Map?

Just thought it was an interesting point?

 

[Barns]

Just a small comment.

There's been mention that any external view (eg: view from an external droid) should not be full screen and instead be on a monitor as it would break "the immersion".

It's interesting to note the galactic map in Alpha 4 is guilty of this very thing? ie: You press a button and straight away your entire FOV is no longer the cockpit but instead an alternative view, the Galaxy Map?

Just thought it was an interesting point?

The same thought crossed my mind.

External view by drone had better be full screen as otherwise it's completely worthless, to me, as I want it for pretty views and screenshots, not for some in game tactical gameplay reason. Sigh. Really depressed with the game direction this morning.

 

[NeilF]

Sigh. Really depressed with the game direction this morning.

How so? Worried about the hyperspace jump? Or external view? If it's the latter, we really are flying blind (IMHO) as we have so very little to go on. To the extent we don't even know if there will be one or not :S

 

[Barns]

How so? Worried about the hyperspace jump? Or external view? If it's the latter, we really are flying blind (IMHO) as we have so very little to go on. To the extent we don't even know if there will be one or not :S

Eh, we'll go off topic but head bobbing making me queasy, trading info limited so we will come to rely on external meta sites for market prices etc, this third person debate again, group debates and PvP stuff, ehh, I don't know, somehow the excitement has been sucked out of the game for me by a cumulative effect of design decisions I disagree with.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Eh, we'll go off topic but head bobbing making me queasy, trading info limited so we will come to rely on external meta sites for market prices etc, this third person debate again, group debates and PvP stuff, ehh, I don't know, somehow the excitement has been sucked out of the game for me by a cumulative effect of design decisions I disagree with.

the whole 3rd person in game design decision.... Correct me if i am wrong but was that not pretty much spelled out from thje get go that it would be from the pilots eyes as it were. It sucks to be dissapointed, I guess i am a little bit the same with SC but from the other side of the coin. I look at their 3rd person/external videos and think they look awful and would totally remove me from the game.

the cockpit shots look ace but i would i feel be at a disadvantage from pilots who switch and swap between inside and outside views.

 

[NeilF]

the whole 3rd person in game design decision.... Correct me if i am wrong but was that not pretty much spelled out from thje get go that it would be from the pilots eyes as it were. It sucks to be dissapointed, I guess i am a little bit the same with SC but from the other side of the coin. I look at their 3rd person/external videos and think they look awful and would totally remove me from the game.

the cockpit shots look ace but i would i feel be at a disadvantage from pilots who switch and swap between inside and outside views.

I've always interpreted the comments as the prime goal was to fly and play the game from the cockpit. That said, I haven't yet seen a single comment yet that precludes the option for an external view (full screen). And, indeed, there have been comments about offering an external view by using a droid (as a believable explanation).

As regards your concern about an external view offering some sort of (combat) advantage, we'd all be concerned about that I suspect, but I'm sure a few simple nerfs could offset that.

As regards external views looking aweful - There's always the option to simply not use the feature? But I would suspect many people would periodically like to get a better view of the ED universe around them. eg - https://elite.frontier.co.uk/images/pick_of_the_week/peek_of_the_week_21.png

 

[Evenios]

I agree a nice outside view would be great and if needed could be limited to non combat but more so when we get planet landing it would be nice to be able to rotate around our ship good for videos and screenshots!

 

[warbaby2]

Simplest solution: External cameras for looking behind/down as an UI element, external camera drones in fullscreen, deactvating ship controlls while use (think X-Reborn... shudders). Both absolutely immersive and unproblematic in combat.

 

[NeoRacer]

Chris Roberts addressed this in one of their videos on SC, given the complexity of the game and no UI in 3p views, its minimal advantage if any in combat. You would most likely die if you take time to view a 3p vantage and lose precious maneuvering time. He doesn't think its an issue at all. No need to nerf it bcus it breaks immersion 'for you'. Just dont use it, plenty of people will want it once the game is in the wild. Wait and see.

 

[NeilF]

Chris Roberts addressed this in one of their videos on SC, given the complexity of the game and no UI in 3p views, its minimal advantage if any in combat. You would most likely die if you take time to view a 3p vantage and lose precious maneuvering time. He doesn't think its an issue at all. No need to nerf it bcus it breaks immersion 'for you'. Just dont use it, plenty of people will want it once the game is in the wild. Wait and see.

So their take on it is to simply remove all the instrumentation etc when in external view. So you have no scanner or the rest of the hud? And what stops you flicking in and out to get the best of both worlds? Or have they (as sime have suggested here) simply introduced a time constraint/delay going to/from external view?