I wonder if getting everything all at once brings a lot of joy. As far as I remember, in the Elite at the start, when opening Felicity Farseer to get the only Meta-Alloys can be two ways, buy, or find on targoid base, barnacles etc. That said, knowing where to get it, not buying it, but just getting it, closes a lot of side tasks. If you buy Meta-Alloys, well, a small loss in money will be no big deal. But if you extract it? Completes the task of opening an engineer on the way to get Meta-Alloys raise the research rank no problem. Arrive at a Targoid base, such as Delphi, turn in scans in the system, and go down to the base to get scans, Meta-Alloys, and materials. Not much, but on your own. Not bought, but mined. And if you open a scavenger hunt, you can get Targoid materials for the engineers, the same scraps of Targoid Sensor for Professor Palin, Mel Brandon, and Chloe Sedesi. By the way, the Targoid scavengers get a boost in combat rank. But unfortunately not many players take such a comprehensive approach to the game, which is a shame.
Focused Feedback - Balancing Ship Engineering & Material Gathering
- Thread starter Bruce G
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Did anyone ask for "everything all at once"?
Been playing for quite some time, seen it more than once or twice. Asked how to get the Anaconda quickly. But very quickly. Then, having obtained the Anaconda I will pass the game. That the game is a process, not a result, was rarely explained. From what I conclude - they ask for everything at once, something like "give me a working life-size copy of the universe made of papier-mâché"...
They asked for Anaconda. Not everything. ED was designed with very little rewards in the beginning and that has been a silver lining through all designs. The credit grind is probably the most bearable because the path to it are many. If I asked for "everything" I'd ask for Cutter, which is rep and credits and the engineering for it. I usually ask to just play the game in peace without being pestered by bulletsponge. The odd ppl asking for quick unlocks, well, every game has their minmaxers.
The Imperial Cutter is a good thing. The credit grind as well as the material grind is one of the most low-key. But you have to know how. Playing quietly is a very subjecc tive concept. Someone wants to destroy packs of enemies, and someone thoughtfully explore the sector, or no less thoughtful digging resources ...
I know this question wasn't directed at me because I still play and my primary account has already unlocked all the engineering. But what I would do is use my secondary account if I didn't have to do that again. I bought a second account quite a while ago but find I almost never use it because everytime I realized how much work it is to unlock the engineering again I just feel depressed and go back to my main account. I also might even buy a third or fourth account if the grind was less/gone.
I do have 4 accounts, 1 of which was reset last year, another 'fresh' one I finally woke up on Epic. Two main ones have been going for years.
The 2 'fresh' ones have barely touched engineering yet, but, as the first 2 didn't for a year or more either, it isn't that unusual for me to go slowly. But, even I would welcome not having to consider how to approach engineering on those accounts and just buy the bits I need - just because I won't 'grind' to progress, so it takes time.
I didnt quote your entire post due to size of a reply.
You make some valid points. Certainly if you have travelled far and then died in 5 seconds that could be frustrating. It doesn't deter people from playing IL2 or DCS though.
That being said I think 5 seconds is too slow I agree. In Alpha TTK was around 20-30 seconds (I loaded up an old video to check). I used to play an old MMO (similar concept to ED) called jumpgate, and that ran with TTK times of approximately 10-15 seconds, travel time was certainly more than 5 minutes and it had probably the best community in an MMO i've come across. PvP was incredibly healthy there.
I do agree with you with regards to the ships not being different enough. I think your example is perhaps a little extreme, but I do agree with the general sentiment.
Basically, what's missing is a material merchant who swaps goods between classes. Otherwise, to be honest, I don't see the severity of the problem. Having planned the development of other accounts move through the engineers quietly, and without fanaticism. The only hitch - I do not explore the combat direction at all. Trade and research our everything. Although, perhaps it's from the fact that the main account I have a joystick, and the second computer only mouse-keyboard.
10-15 seconds TTK in 1v1 is about 1 second TTK in a wingfight.
Dying within 1 second after having spent 5 minutes traveling there is not healthy, it's boring.
Same builds should have the exact same stats. Level playing field and and things like that, you know.
Maybe it's worth to consider that G3 is more than enough for PvE, and G4 or 2-3 rolls at G5 doesn't really need all that much of high level material gathering. Taking everything to full circles at G5 is really somewhat of a waste of time and materials for PvE..
Also the discrepancy between noob ships and G5 meta ships is possibly a real hindrance for the people that want more targets in PvP as unengineered ships are so badly outmatched..
Also the discrepancy between noob ships and G5 meta ships is possibly a real hindrance for the people that want more targets in PvP as unengineered ships are so badly outmatched..
Without reading through 68 pages of nonsense, can anyone tell me if this focused feedback ever was acknowledge or some plan to make changes announced? Did the purpose of this thread get lost to the ages and corporate will to follow through wither and die? Asking for a friend.
To be fair, I think this "68 pages of nonsense" was made in response to FDev commenting that Engineering might be rebalanced at some point and, more recently, hinting that "core gameplay" revisions will be happening next year.
Whether FDev have read this or not, they did provoke the discussion with their own comments.
So core game play is scheduled to be broken next and then some engineering tweaks possibly occurring in some as yet unknown future decade. I guess that's par for the course given the state of things. Stock up on arx and canned food while you can lol.
Yes, and no.
For anybody building a ship, it's definitely worth looking at the difference between G3/4 and G5 and then asking whether G5 is absolutely necessary.
A 2D overcharged gimballed beam, for example, has 19.3 DPS with G3 and 21.9 DPS with G5.
The extra 2 DPS shouldn't really be the difference between life or death, especially in PvE.
The problem is, gradual, incremental, modifications often aren't efficient with the current system.
You build a ship with, say, G3 overcharged lasers and you fit (and modify) a PP and PDist to suit them.
You collect a bunch of extra mat's and decide to upgrade some of those lasers to G4... and now you find that you need a better PP/PDist to run them, so all the mat's you spent engineering the PP/PDist are wasted.
Conversely, maybe you start with G3 Efficient lasers, and a suitable PP/Pdist.
You upgrade those lasers to G5 Efficient and find you can make use of a smaller PP/PDist so, again, those modules (and the mat's you've spent on mat's for them) go in the skip.
I guess it's not the end of the world but when you've built dozens (if not hundreds) of ships, it becomes irritating to think about all the time, effort and mat's you've wasted on "intermediate" upgrades which became redundant and got binned... so you start using things like EDshipyard or Coriolis.io to plan your builds and then you start wandering around with a huge shopping-list of mat's required to create a G5 ship out of the box.
Simplest solution would probably be if engineers offered some kind "refund" on mat's, which'd encourage players to build things now and modify those builds later... without having to worry (as much) about all the time, effort and mat's they wasted on upgrades that have been superceded.
Honestly, if they wanted to do it properly, I'd like to see FDev develop scavenging as a worthwhile activity in ED.
You enter a system, do your scans, you see various POIs (in space and on planets) which might contain ship wreckage.
Alternatively, maybe you can create some wreckage with a bit of pew-pew.
You have an advanced scanner (utility slot) which allows you to examine modules within the wreckage.
You target a module, twiddle some things (mini game) to disconnect the module from the wreckage, initiate a scavenging operation (different sized scavenging modules allow you to scavenge bigger things) and you'd collect the module and it'd appear in your cargo hold (if it'll fit).
In space, the scavenging operation would involve your ship going into "autopilot", moving into position near the wreckage, there'd be some noises and it'd be in your hold.
On a surface, you'd dismiss your ship, initiate the scavenging operation, your ship would re-appear, hover above the wreckage, there'd be noises and bright lights (conveniently hiding the exact operation) and, again, the module would be in your hold.
With the scavenging done, you head to a station where you can have the module fitted to your ship or you can take it to an engineer who can repair/service it using far less mat's than it'd take to engineer a similar module from scratch.
Agree, full g5 is rarely worth it. I typically make new builds up to g3/g4 with whatever experimental I prefer and assuming the blueprint is pinned I can always improve it later if I find myself with a surplus of materials. Even over time I almost never max it as I’ve noticed when your at 99% of g5 the actual absolute value sometimes doesn’t even change for that last 1% and expensive materials, so why bother wasting them for nothing?
The big problem isn't that players could stick with G3 instead of G5 but choose not to, it's that accounting for unlocking the engineer, plus getting the materials to do multiple weapons and modules, it ends up being just as fast to just go straight for G5, and possible faster. Sure, you can get 1 G3 module in 2 hours, but you could also get 3 G5 modules in 6 hours, or less.
This creates a significant disincentive to getting lower-grade stuff.
IMO they should reward G1-G3 modules as mission rewards. Getting a G3 weapon early on could significantly change how you play the game.
Fixing engineer grind isnt the holy grail though. ED is full of annoyances of which engiiineeres is a major one. Overret time the game transitioned from fun gameplay to grindy gacha. Engineers is just the most prominent but little stuff like ships accelerating reverse as fast as fwd via boost mechanic is just as bad. All together it cements the feel off "turrets in space" an impression that was entirely different pre 2.1.
Show me how you accelerate reverse during a boost, lmao
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