Frontier - Enough Shoulder Shrugging - Get Tough on Exploits and Exploiters.

[Vasco Sapien]

Among the stupids yes.

Please wait for something substantial before you go off on one.

People spread rumours literally for the fun of trolling.

Ohhh i see... somewhat up yourself aren't we.

Ive 'gone off' on nothing. Ive simply questioned a rumor with traction now circulating amoung the ED community, Ive said nothing about its veracity.
This story is still evolving, asking about and dispelling items currently sloshing around the Rumor Mill is part of that. People don't know what is correct or what is not so they take on what is available. My asking here was an attempt to help eliminate one such rumor. This board being the Nexus of ED community communications.

 

[Dbrn47]

There is so much hyperbolic STUPID here it's unbelievable.

Leaving aside any evaluation of the (sometimes questionable) judgement of folks who consider ANY means whereby "somebody else" can get "more stuff" in the game easier than they can an "exploit", some of them even going so far as to make arguments readily paraphrased as "they play more than I do, I need to have as many shiny things as they do to make it fair!"....

The real question is "Is player X cheating - not "exploiting" - by doing Y"

We've all got opinions on that but the only one that matters is FDs. Doesn't matter if YOU think that using mission stacking to farm credits and rep quickly in Quince is an "exploit" - FD haven't declared it a "cheat" so it isn't. It may be lame, it may be poor sportsmanship, it may be a result of a game mechanic unintended by FD that they will subsequently nerf, but that doesn;t make using it "cheating" and therefore subject to sanction.

It's like combat logging - Exiting to avoid ship destruction via the menu and the timer may be lame but it isn't cheating, whereas causing an ungraceful exit to circumvent the timer IS cheating. If they catch you they'll do something about it.

There have been credit cheats in the past where it was possible to exploit a bug and gain credits, rather than just lamely but legitimately stacking missions... FD rolled back those transactions and the cheated credits went away. On the other side of a similar approach shortly after engineered weapons were introduced a bug cause many NPCs to have multicannon rails and player ships were exploding like popcorn... Those transactions couldn;t be completely rolled back but the players impacted got the full purchase price of the ships they'd lost back. FD do do something about bugs like this.

This engineer bug is more like those credit bugs than it is like the situation at Quince. At a minimum, those who used it can expect to lose the mods they got that way. Since in order to benefit from it, it takes specific action to DELIBERATELY exploit it, it's a much more egregious cheat, and should indeed attract heavy sanctions. There's absolutely no comparison to the lame but harmless mission stackers.

Agreed!

I am amazed at how many people in this thread actually believe that Quince is on the same level as this! It boggles the mind to observe that level of complete and utter cluelessness.

Perhaps you should both read the forum a bit more. The reason they are being compared is because they are treated the same by the community. It really isn't all that amazing nor hyperbolic if you've been paying attention. It doesn't matter what level the 'exploit' is on, it gets treated the same and you are damned just the same for using any such things. So maybe the hyperbole is what the community continually tries to force the term on. Just a thought. This instance is clearly abuse, but much less is indeed labelled as 'definitively' an 'exploit' by community members.

 

[DaveB]

...much less is indeed labelled as 'definitively' an 'exploit' by community members.

And their opinion as to whether an "exploit" that they so "definitively" label as such is actionable by FD as a cheat, matters about as much as a fart in a tornado.

A bunch of the members of this incredibly diverse community can indeed gripe and moan about a particular game mechanic to their heart's content. We have FD's statements on record that certain kinds of "exploit" are cheating and will result in FD taking action against players using them. Others may be something that they don't particularly like and would like to nerf but they are wisely not attempting to publicly define the limits of that.

All cheats are exploits.
All exploits are lame but not all of them are cheats.
FD will only sanction players for cheats, other exploits are just up for a date with the nerfbat sometime "Soon(tm)" Quince will probably get nerfed sooner or later, so will stacked shield boosters. Cheating the engineer rolls though, that they will move on faster and there will be explicit consequences for using it - not because it's an "exploit" but because it's a cheat.

 

[bitstorm]

Ohhh i see... somewhat up yourself aren't we.

Ive 'gone off' on nothing. Ive simply questioned a rumor with traction now circulating amoung the ED community, Ive said nothing about its veracity.
This story is still evolving, asking about and dispelling items currently sloshing around the Rumor Mill is part of that. People don't know what is correct or what is not so they take on what is available. My asking here was an attempt to help eliminate one such rumor. This board being the Nexus of ED community communications.

Well sure, I think it was just you putting it in the biggest font you could find with all the angry bits bolded for extra emphasis, on the rumour.

 

[GG7]

Perhaps you should both read the forum a bit more. The reason they are being compared is because they are treated the same by the community. It really isn't all that amazing nor hyperbolic if you've been paying attention. It doesn't matter what level the 'exploit' is on, it gets treated the same and you are damned just the same for using any such things. So maybe the hyperbole is what the community continually tries to force the term on. Just a thought. This instance is clearly abuse, but much less is indeed labelled as 'definitively' an 'exploit' by community members.

What you guys continually ignore and refuse to accept is the fact that one of them has zero impact on any other players, and the other has nothing but negative impacts on other players.

THAT is why I will continue to consider the money exploits a non-event for anyone but the most compulsive and meddling personalities out there.

 

[bitstorm]

What you guys continually ignore and refuse to accept is the fact that one of them has zero impact on any other players, and the other has nothing but negative impacts on other players.

THAT is why I will continue to consider the money exploits a non-event for anyone but the most compulsive and meddling personalities out there.

Not really.

I mean Frontier will make balance decisions based on player activity. Quince and its ilk skew things massively. When Frontier changes game balance, be it based on income, rebalancing rewards, or kneecapping certain missions, everyone is affected.

It's doubly worse when Frontier, as they have in the past, ask people not to abuse the mechanics at these places since the behaviour is unintended. This then puts a group of players in a position where they're prevented from using it, but others will continue, which just increases the gap, and ends up penalising the players who do as Frontier ask.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

What you guys continually ignore and refuse to accept is the fact that one of them has zero impact on any other players, and the other has nothing but negative impacts on other players.

THAT is why I will continue to consider the money exploits a non-event for anyone but the most compulsive and meddling personalities out there.

There is no doubt the eng glitch is worse than money BUT they are symptoms of same disease imo. Cant be bothered playing the game and wanting to get the cool stuff without putting in the time. All of it needs to be stopped imo and as much as a god ship is unfair against an average roll ship, an a rated conda from a billionaire is unbalanced against a c rated python with only 4 mill in the bank.

 

[Dbrn47]

What you guys continually ignore and refuse to accept is the fact that one of them has zero impact on any other players, and the other has nothing but negative impacts on other players.

THAT is why I will continue to consider the money exploits a non-event for anyone but the most compulsive and meddling personalities out there.

I'm not part of 'you guys', I was just pointing something out to you. I've been railing against flippant exploit labeling for a while. I happen to think that this is quite clearly the objective definition of exploit, however, I also have been around long enough and paid enough attention to understand why the comparisons are made. It's not all that surprising to me, given our overall short history. It's also an endless argument and I question the value of it.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

Unfortunately the glitch kiddies are here to stay. Gaming has been infected for a while and the youtube just reinforces the situation.
I saw the thread last week where the engineers cheat was pushed out, dirty dirty. That was done to get as many glitch kiddies using it as possible to hinder FDs ability to take action against it.(My opinion)
I say outright ban those accounts that have been found to have used that engineer cheat. Ban.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Don't ban anyone permanently. These people like playing the game. I like fighting against them or at least seeing them in the Galaxy.

But do remove the affected modules , and if this can't be done remove all engineered modules from their ships.

 

[crushdepth]

Careful exploit is a dirty word to exploiters.

Something something roleplaying something...

 

[relayer]

It's an incoherent mess. A pile of half-measures, placeholders, stopgaps and kludges piled on top of one another.

OR... it's a game that is engineered to grow over time, and those placeholders are there to mark where development is going to go.

EXAMPLE: The graphic upgrade in planet surface maps (and still not all there). There are other examples.

 

[relayer]

Exploiters will run this show with their cutters and elite rankings they obviously do not deserve

It took me a bit more than a year and a half to get my Cutter and rankings (exploit-free). Some people might see that as lame; I see it as reward for great effort playing the game.

 

[relayer]

redacted

 

[Gunnet]

That was done to get as many glitch kiddies using it as possible to hinder FDs ability to take action against it.

Exactly. They knew Frontier would hesitate to do anything as drastic as banning if it involved too large a number of players.

I think a good compromise would be to split the cheaters into two groups. In the first group, those who knew about the glitch prior to it becoming public knowledge and kept it secret while abusing it. In the second group, those who just jumped on the bandwagon after seeing the video. Ban the first group, then strip the mods from the second group and make it clear that there will be less leniency next time.

 

[relayer]

Why would the revered lavatory implement of the ancients be filtered?

(Not the justified ones, the other ancients)

KICK OUT THE JAMS!

 

[relayer]

I'm the sort of player who believes that if I buy a game, whatever I do in it short of reverse engineering or altering the executable itself, is entirely my business.

I see what you're saying; I am playing Skyrim again for the umpteenth time and have exploited for gold because I'm trying to determine if a character type or skillset is actually viable. I invariably play battlemages (emphasis on "battle") and having raised two pure Mages the hard way to the tippy-top of their skills and that still turned out to be weaker than needed in the endgame, I am futzing with builds, skills, spells & mods and don't care to spend a month or so hauling iron bows and leather armor to the shops in order to see if playing a pure Mage is really viable. If it is, THEN I will go back to Character Creation and start a new game.

It seems cheating is a problem because the game is online-only, and - outside of solo - forces players to interact with each other.

That is exactly the problem. I am not playing Skyrim against anyone else; I've already gone through many hours poking around, doing this and that, that I am not cheating myself out of any game content I'd miss powering through the Main Quest at lvl9.

What is of concern are cheats that allow players an unfair advantage over other players, because one of the touted modes is Open, and in Open you're gaining an unfair advantage over other players with these exploits, particularly this one. That harms the game for all.

 

[relayer]

it may be poor sportsmanship

I think you've defined the problem perfectly.

 

[sollisb]

Unfortunately the glitch kiddies are here to stay. Gaming has been infected for a while and the youtube just reinforces the situation.
I saw the thread last week where the engineers cheat was pushed out, dirty dirty. That was done to get as many glitch kiddies using it as possible to hinder FDs ability to take action against it.(My opinion)
I say outright ban those accounts that have been found to have used that engineer cheat. Ban.

Proof has been shown that FDev were made aware of it and in fact asked for the Video to be left publicly available.

What we have now is a situation where FDev;

1. Knew about it,
2. Asked for the details to be left available,
3. Did nothing to fix it.

So essentially, FDev not only screwed the people using the engineers legitimately but also helped the cheaters!!

FDev has zero credibility after this.

No more money to this company.

 

[Weps]

Proof has been shown that FDev were made aware of it and in fact asked for the Video to be left publicly available.

What we have now is a situation where FDev;

1. Knew about it,
2. Asked for the details to be left available,
3. Did nothing to fix it.

So essentially, FDev not only screwed the people using the engineers legitimately but also helped the cheaters!!

FDev has zero credibility after this.

No more money to this company.

For anyone wondering what the above poster is talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ngineers_bug_fdev_knew_for_months_with_proof/

Ticket seems to be dated February 2017.