Frontier, please change the game rules and make griefing bannable!

[Maolagin]

No, play in a PG, like Fleetcomm or Mobius. I've been in Fleetcomm since start of the event and haven't had a single issue, except when I was stupid and boosted out of Omega station forgetting that I was in a PG and other players where there. Didn't die, but really embarrassed myself.

Private Groups give you the chance of meeting others, while begin quite safe since griefers aren't allowed in there.

Plus, with the addition of the System chat channel, you can meet other players no matter the mode. You just have to get yourselves into the same mode or group to instance with each other.

That's why there's law enforcement in the game. Griefers as you call them can't kill anyone with a clean status and not allied with any superpower without consequence. They get notoriety and therefore can't simply go and pay of any bounties issued against them. Anyone willing can hunt these people down and claim their bounty. On top of that there's law enforcement trying to track them down as well if the notoriety is high enough or they're scanned and found wanted.

Ahh haha! That's funny. I mean, that's actually literally what the notoriety system is supposed to achieve, but C&P isn't very effective, so dedicated gankers work around it.

Now I think it would be an great addition to the game if law enforcement was determined enough to actually make life difficult for serial offenders. There's various ways that could happen - better AI, more aggressive hunting tactics, maybe even following notorious players to nearby systems. Giving players the tools to bounty hunt wanted pilots would also go a long way. Because right now, one thing this game cannot really provide to an experienced player is that feeling of being *hunted*.

 

[Kotuma]

Ahh haha! That's funny. I mean, that's actually literally what the notoriety system is supposed to achieve, but C&P isn't very effective, so dedicated gankers work around it.

Now I think it would be an great addition to the game if law enforcement was determined enough to actually make life difficult for serial offenders. There's various ways that could happen - better AI, more aggressive hunting tactics, maybe even following notorious players to nearby systems. Giving players the tools to bounty hunt wanted pilots would also go a long way. Because right now, one thing this game cannot really provide to an experienced player is that feeling of being *hunted*.

There’s a solid argument that this is the best way to address murder hobos - beef up the in-game mechanics to match the fact that some of these players have (in an in-game sense) murdered thousands of unarmed people. I’d say the in-game universe acts in ways that make no sense considering these are historical-scale mass killers - how are the engineers with seemingly lawful alignments still dealing with them? How can they ever shake their notoriety? Who the hell sells that person spaceship insurance? Solid consequences are the only way to make this playstyle balanced and for the victims to be expected to see it as valid.

But there’s some validity to the complaints of those who see this as griefing, especially when murder hobos are adopting this playstyle for twitch lulz while complaining that they think the game is garbage (ooh, double troll!). That’s not contributing to a community that’s appealing to join or stay involved in, and is going to be long-term toxic if nothing is done.

 

[5m4llP0X]

They should set a membership join date restriction on this part of the forum so we don't get bombarded with this terrible ideas from these new care bears.

Translation: I don't want new players picking up this game and thinking they're allowed to have an opinion. I just want the option to be a d-bag troll and grief them until they uninstall.

Why is it that so many want the game to mete out punishment for them?

Because right now they're sole joy in the game is to ensure others hate the game. There's no benefit to killing other players, other than knowing they lost everything they were carrying, failed their mission and have to spend a horde of credits rebuy their ship. The penalties to the killed player are significantly worse than the penalty towards the d-bag trolls.

This game has become almost unrecognizable, and is a shadow of what it was prior to engineering.

Engineering is why PvP ships are absolute death machines.

They have to be.

Engineering is pretty easy now, but it creates massively OP ships. Now more than ever before.

Is there any good reason why we can engineer every aspect our ships to utter perfection?

The same reason any MMO allows players to get the top-tier items--you were able to grind for it.

Why isn't there a limit to how many engineered modules can be installed at any given time?

Was any thought put into how engineering would affect gameplay?

It seems unlikely.

It's a rabbit hole of bad decisions cascading into epic unbalanced failure.

Mass lock bug?

Meet my FSD reboot engineered Yuri Grom FSD reboot missile.

Now with double the reboot duration (they still suck... but they illustrate the point well).

Yeah, those missiles mean players are screwed when it comes to being interdicted.

Interesting idea! You wouldn't be able to post here being the only 'downside'...
Join date end of 2017 and then feels like a pro. But the big mouth is already in place, I give you that.

Nice one. +1, man.

Greifers, or more accurately murder hobos, are a valid playstyle so long as they arent combat logging. there is a crime and punishment system in the game for a reason. if the "greifers" get caught/killed/detained they are forced to pay the rebuy costs of the players that they killed on top of their bounties.

C&P is a joke, as is the "it's a valid play style" excuse. It's like in Diablo 1 where you could just go aggro vs another player without them knowing and kill them any time you wanted. As long as you don't use hacks it's all legit!

according to your post murder hobos are greifers that should be banned.
youve said nothing about actual greifers that just combat log and have no skill.
You got wooped by some murder hobo and want to whine about it instead of just being more cautious in a game called "Elite Dangerous"
If the Dev's didnt want Open PvP they wouldnt have implimented it, and they wouldnt have implimented a crime and punishment system that affects murder hobo's as well.

Just because something IS there doesn't mean it's a good design idea.

 

[Cmdr Beteran]

Despite the fact that i actually hate griefers, i don't think they should be punished any further than the game mechanic does.

And to those who say: "Just play Solo!":
OK....whenever I will get robbed or assaulted, I will quit my job and stay at home instead of calling the police. I can just stay at home - then I don`t risk being harmed again! Would you do that? I don`t think so! No - you would call the police to have the assaulter punished.
The same should apply to the game. It can`t be a solution to play Solo! The griefers are the ones who have to face consequences - not the regular players! The griefers are the ones who the game and destroy it - not the regular players! So the griefers should be kicked out of the game!

RL assaulters are to be punished due to the strict rules. There are no such rules for griefers and there should not be, it's the way they choose to play the game. There are already C&P dynamics implemented also for such actiontakers.

if you keep being robbed in RL, you should get some repellent equipment or learn some techniques to protect yourself. The same should apply to the game; arm yourself, fly with a wing, leave heavily populated systems in solo then jump back to open etc.

Just, enjoy the game.

 

[Han Zulu]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better if Frontier added a feature where players could join a police force. They would get a weekly stipend, access to all ships for very cheap, all engineering and modules, anywhere, and only allowed to kill commanders with bounty on them. If they kill someone without, they'll get suspended for a week. If they kill someone with notoriety they'll get an extra bonus. Something like that. Make it really profitable and beneficial to be a cop.

 

[5m4llP0X]

Despite the fact that i actually hate griefers, i don't think they should be punished any further than the game mechanic does.

The mechanic doesn't discourage it, though. The loss the player receives over being griefed does encourage it, however.

RL assaulters are to be punished due to the strict rules. There are no such rules for griefers and there should not be, it's the way they choose to play the game. There are already C&P dynamics implemented also for such actiontakers.

if you keep being robbed in RL, you should get some repellent equipment or learn some techniques to protect yourself. The same should apply to the game; arm yourself, fly with a wing, leave heavily populated systems in solo then jump back to open etc.

Just, enjoy the game.

The police will tell you that it's actually a bad idea to fight back because they might actually just kill you. Or are you suggesting we find out where these griefers are and break their systems to prevent them from logging in for a while? Because that, too, is a bad idea.

 

[Stinja]

The game is called Elite Dangerous, not Elite Chutes & Ladders.

The game's subtitle is not related to risk level, merely combat rank, as confirmed by Sir David Braben OBE:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...obe_fdev_ceo/d96sdor/?st=iuphpvjj&sh=2af8074a

It is based on the Pilot's Federation rank.

Click the link for the full post Sir David Braben OBE made.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better if Frontier added a feature where players could join a police force. They would get a weekly stipend, access to all ships for very cheap, all engineering and modules, anywhere, and only allowed to kill commanders with bounty on them. If they kill someone without, they'll get suspended for a week. If they kill someone with notoriety they'll get an extra bonus. Something like that. Make it really profitable and beneficial to be a cop.

It'd be too easy to exploit, and too hard to do it honestly, I think.

Honest case: sure, you now have a (loaned) G5 engineered combat ship, but so do by the usual route the people you're trying to kill, and they've had more practice. You might through weight of numbers be able to force them to retreat, but you're not going to kill them, because a ship with fully engineered defences will not die [1,2]. And even with the big bounties a lot of famous hostiles have, even if you do kill them, it's not going to beat Void Opals or Palladium missions for the money - especially not with the 2 million credit bounty cap.

(And of course the ones who only fight unarmed ships and combat log when interdicted themselves would continue to do that)

There are lots of experienced players who are quite capable of engineering up a maximum combat ship from their existing resources, and have a big enough bounty that they don't need the money anyway. Extra pay for PvP bounty hunting won't make PvP enjoyable for someone who doesn't want to do it in the first place - and conversely someone who enjoys it but doesn't have the resources can already find various groups who'll help them get up that early bit.

Exploit case: if you significantly raise the bounty cap, groups take it in turns to be the police [3] and collect the bounties on their friends, minimising the amount of money that they collectively lose, and leaving nothing for the "honest" ones to actually collect.


[1] As previously experimented with, the ability for engineered defences to go so high could be scaled back, and/or more options to prevent or delay escape could be added. But this would probably hurt the trader who has taken responsibility for hardening their own ship more than it would hurt anyone trying to kill them. At least at the moment you *can* engineer your own non-combat ship into invincibility without significantly compromising its non-combat capabilities.

[2] There's also a nasty exploit from the police being strictly disallowed from killing clean ships - the criminals wing up with a clean healing ship, which ensures they don't die ... and probably tries to get in the way of the incoming fire, too.

[3] This could be mitigated by setting a really high "time since last murder" before they're allowed to join the police (months, say) ... but they could still use an alt account to collect the bounties, then have that alt account transfer cargo to give the money back.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The game's subtitle is not related to risk level, merely combat rank, as confirmed by Sir David Braben OBE:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...obe_fdev_ceo/d96sdor/?st=iuphpvjj&sh=2af8074a

Click the link for the full post Sir David Braben OBE made.

That is literally true, yes.

But it's an obscure bit of game lore, so obscure in fact that as His Imperial Majesty states in the first sentence of his holy missive, it has no actual in-game implementation ... and, indeed, many bits of implementation which actively contradict it. Hence why you have to ask the developers rather than it being front-and-centre on the game's website.

They could also - for the same lore justification - have named the game Elite: Entrepreneur after the trade rank, or Elite: Ranger after the exploration rank. Or Elite: Running Away, since space legs are not in-game yet either but according to the game lore our commanders are able to walk around.

Those alternative titles would give a very different impression to prospective customers about what the game was about. It's fairly clear that they picked the title *first* and then came up with a reason why the game was called that more interesting than "well, it's got some danger in it, right?"

A title can have more than just its literal official meaning. That's how marketing works.


Anyway, they *also* called it Elite: something, in reference to it being a sequel to the three previous Elite titles, which involved large numbers of NPCs trying to murder you whether they'd get anything from it or not. The ability to almost entirely opt out of combat is - ironically, since they subtitled it after the *combat* rank - new to Elite: Dangerous.

 

[Evoflash]

Dear OP,

Best to play in Private Group - PvE ones. You can happily go about your day and enjoy the game with a greatly reduced chance of meeting a griefer. Let them have their game their way and we have our game our way, and everyone is happy.

o7

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Don't wanna be that guy...

But grow a pair my man. It's a shooty pewpew spaceship game.

Either git the gud like the rest of us murder hobos, or use solo or PG. Stop trying to change open to PvE mode.


Bannable offence, please. I hope you're not on Ps4, I really do.

 

[Old Duck]

Don't wanna be that guy...

Yes you do.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Translation: Start enjoying people kicking you in the face over and over or leave. They gave you people CQC so you wouldn't be such pieces of human garbage towards the rest of the players. Go play that.

As much as I dislike the "gitgud" rhetoric, there is a third option: engineer your ship and learn. I really think half of this forum should go to some kind of shrink on the grounds of anger management issues and also having serious trouble differentiating real life from a computer game. A basic reading comprehension would also benefit some, because throwing adjectives like "human garbage" over a computer game points either at incomprehension or inability to value things properly.

 

[Han Zulu]

As much as I dislike the "gitgud" rhetoric, there is a third option: engineer your ship and learn. I really think half of this forum should go to some kind of shrink on the grounds of anger management issues and also having serious trouble differentiating real life from a computer game. A basic reading comprehension would also benefit some, because throwing adjectives like "human garbage" over a computer game points either at incomprehension or inability to value things properly.

Actually, the thing that helped me wasn't to "git gud", but to just accept that Open is open to all kind's of stuff and that if I go in there, I go there knowing that my ship might be blown up whatever I do and whatever I have done to protect against it. I've been killed three times, and in each case I did have engineered ships with A drives, shields, etc. The problem was rather that I didn't have prismatic shields, guardian powerplant, swerved, planned an escape jump, etc, etc, etc, etc... there's always one more thing you can do, and still it's not enough. The frustration it caused didn't help, so I just relaxed and accepted faith, that Open is full of this and there's no 100% certainty. If you want certainty, play Solo. If you want challenge, play Open. So to me, it was more about acceptance than "git gud".

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

LOL

No

 

[JetsonRING]

Well this has been debunked numerous what dangerous in the title means, it is not the literal meaning of dangerous, it is simply the two top ranks for combat.

The two top combat ranks are Deadly and Elite.

 

[LanceLord]

Wow. I made the assumption most of the folks engaging on this Community Project were on PvE servers like Moebius. I've been faithfully (and somewhat enviously) following enterprising Commanders the likes of Obsidian Ant on this amazing journey (from the confines of that n00b subspace called tutorial purgatory). While Commanders like him proactively signed up for a player group like Moebius, I didn't realize other players were performing this journey in regular game play mode as well.

Or did you sign up with a dedicated player group/server like Moebius but still got griefed?

Guess I'm really confuzzled now. lol

 

[5m4llP0X]

As much as I dislike the "gitgud" rhetoric, there is a third option: engineer your ship and learn. I really think half of this forum should go to some kind of shrink on the grounds of anger management issues and also having serious trouble differentiating real life from a computer game. A basic reading comprehension would also benefit some, because throwing adjectives like "human garbage" over a computer game points either at incomprehension or inability to value things properly.

My ships are engineered and "learn" is the same thing as "git gud" just less dismissive. And what else would you call people who's sole enjoyment in the game is not only at the cost of others enjoyment but also their time and effort into something? That's pretty garbage person mentality.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

My ships are engineered and "learn" is the same thing as "git gud" just less dismissive. And what else would you call people who's sole enjoyment in the game is not only at the cost of others enjoyment but also their time and effort into something? That's pretty garbage person mentality.

Wait. Dismissing the encouragement to learn is garbage person mentality?

Call me Oscar the Grouch!

 

[LanceLord]

No, play in a PG, like Fleetcomm or Mobius. I've been in Fleetcomm since start of the event and haven't had a single issue, except when I was stupid and boosted out of Omega station forgetting that I was in a PG and other players where there. Didn't die, but really embarrassed myself.

Private Groups give you the chance of meeting others, while begin quite safe since griefers aren't allowed in there.

Open can stay as griefer heaven, as long as we have the PGs.

But there is no mechanism for stopping a griefer from joining a strictly PvE group like Mobius. Waiting for the perfect moment to stalk and isolate a pilot whose ship/experience they deem easy picking. And then boost their K/D with an easy kill in some remote part of space. This sort of B$ is even easier if you have a cartel of such players who use other means of communications (like Discord etc.) to communicate separately from the PG channel.

Even if such griefer trolls are found out, they've got countless other PGs to troll in.