Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Robert Maynard]

No disrespect Robert, but I've simply had too many conversations with PvE exclusive players the last couple days who disagreed with me that mounting a shield on their T6's would help improve their odds of survival to buy that

Also, I'm not a PvP player in the sense that you're implying; I'm a player who has added that to his resume, on top of a long list of other gameplay styles he's not ruled out as an option.

Some may be rash enough to run shieldless - that's their choice - and even if running a vanilla shield on a trade build it is unlikely that the trader would survive for the 25 seconds required to escape when up against a fully Engineered meta build (that is also faster than it).

Would it be accurate to say that you enjoy PvP?

 

[Littlerift]

Me too, currently a tour guide. From the most swivelled eyed of the PvEers you'd think all Pvp is just destroying the defenceless and nobody does anything else.

It doesn't matter what percentage of the PvP community are or aren't gankers in the traditional sense; people aren't playing in Solo currently because their experience in Open was one that was filled with ganking, they're playing in Solo because they don't want the risk of ganking, which is something that will never go away unless an Open PvE mode is introduced.

Cue some subjective twaddle about how people need to l2p and that if they're not taking risks then they might as well not play the game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Me too, currently a tour guide. From the most swivelled eyed of the PvEers you'd think all Pvp is just destroying the defenceless and nobody does anything else.

Not all PvP, no. Some, yes - and those PvPers would seem to be doing the rest rather a disservice by discouraging some players from playing in Open.

 

[JosiahD]

I hear many state that they feel Open PvE would be boring.

That's fine. Don't go there. Everyone makes that decision for themselves. Those who would enjoy Open PvE don't need aproval from those who don't.

I am glad that this thread actually seems to make progress with regard to the effect on Open. It's a rare and welcome sight

Indeed. Solo and private must already be boring if the logic of open PvE would be boring is correct. Yet so many people use those modes either exclusively or routinely. When a certain type of PvPer says such modes are or must be boring, what he/she really means to say is 'you suck for using those modes because I can't get to you there and attack and kill you'.

 

[jasonbarron]

It would be fantastic, but like you, I'm skeptical.

But, I'd try combat if this were to be the case and for a dedicated trader, that's saying some.

Mark, when 2.1 hit I was just off the DWE after a 5 month journey to BP and back. I was somewhere in the middle ranges of Expert for Combat, and it wasn't until 2.1 NPC's arrived that I even considered combat as an option at all, much less PvP. It wasn't until I lost 56 million credits defending Walters Dock and the hundreds of unshielded traders from SDC and the like several months later that it finally became clear the massive disparity between the two cultures, PvE combat & PvP combat. It was only then that I decided to learn it as a discipline.

 

[JosiahD]

Not all PvP, no. Some, yes - and those PvPers would seem to be doing the rest rather a disservice by discouraging some players from playing in Open.

Exactly. Not all PvPers are to blame, just a minority of them. But as I've said many times the last couple of years, PvPers need only look to their own if wanting to examine why so many are reluctant to play with them.....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Exactly. Not all PvPers are to blame, just a minority of them. But as I've said many times the last couple of years, PvPers need only look to their own if wanting to examine why so many are reluctant to play with them.....

I disagree about the guilt/responsibility by association angle. I wouldn't lump Non-ganking PvPers in with the ganking flavour based on that. There is no "their own" in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Eymerich]

Indeed. Solo and private must already be boring if the logic of open PvE would be boring is correct. Yet so many people use those modes either exclusively or routinely. When a certain type of PvPer says such modes are or must be boring, what he/she really means to say is 'you suck for using those modes because I can't get to you there and attack and kill you'.

Basically this, being a reason to not waste my time in open with such as him...

 

[jasonbarron]

This is actually a great thread. I have to go play for a while with some of my friends ingame, but I'll be back a bit later and try to respond to everybody who disagrees with me

 

[MarkAusten]

Mark, when 2.1 hit I was just off the DWE after a 5 month journey to BP and back. I was somewhere in the middle ranges of Expert for Combat, and it wasn't until 2.1 NPC's arrived that I even considered combat as an option at all, much less PvP. It wasn't until I lost 56 million credits defending Walters Dock and the hundreds of unshielded traders from SDC and the like several months later that it finally became clear the massive disparity between the two cultures, PvE combat & PvP combat. It was only then that I decided to learn it as a discipline.

I have to admit that most of my combat rating is from the turrets with which I armed my T9. I did, however, take part in the Emperor's Dawn smackdown CG simply to try and get some experience in combat that my rating suggested. I'd not fought much before that or since. As I said apart from that the rest of my Dangerous rank is from the turrets. Now I don't even arm my trade vehicles so my combat rank has not changed in the last 12 months.

 

[JosiahD]

I disagree about the guilt/responsibility by association angle. I wouldn't lump Non-ganking PvPers in with the ganking flavour based on that. There is no "their own" in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not assigning guilt by association - just that if some PvPers want to find someone to blame, they need to check the attitude of some of their fellow PvPers, or themselves for that matter if appropriate, (ie look to their own) before directing their vitriol against PvEers. Likewise though, PvEers must not generalise about PvPers and tar them all with the same brush. In no way do I blame PvPers in general, but I certainly point the bone at a certain subset of their number if they want to.understsnd why people have a distaste of PvP.

 

[MarkAusten]

I'm not assigning guilt by association - just that if some PvPers want to find someone to blame, they need to check the attitude of some of their fellow PvPers (ie look to their own) before directing their vitriol against PvEers. Likewise though, PvEers must not generalise about PvPers and tar them all with the same brush. In no way do I blame PvPers in general, but I certainly point the bone at a certain subset of their number if they want to.understsnd why people have a distaste of PvP.

"Distaste". That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. Inconsiderately vitriolic is closer to the mark but how I really want to describe it would get me banned!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm not assigning guilt by association - just that if some PvPers want to find someone to blame, they need to check the attitude of some of their fellow PvPers, or themselves for that matter if appropriate, (ie look to their own) before directing their vitriol against PvEers. Likewise though, PvEers must not generalise about PvPers and tar them all with the same brush. In no way do I blame PvPers in general, but I certainly point the bone at a certain subset of their number if they want to.understsnd why people have a distaste of PvP.

Fairy nuff. Interpretation fumble on my part.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm not assigning guilt by association - just that if some PvPers want to find someone to blame, they need to check the attitude of some of their fellow PvPers, or themselves for that matter if appropriate, (ie look to their own) before directing their vitriol against PvEers. Likewise though, PvEers must not generalise about PvPers and tar them all with the same brush. In no way do I blame PvPers in general, but I certainly point the bone at a certain subset of their number if they want to.understsnd why people have a distaste of PvP.

I really hope you're not suggesting that I've been vitriolic

 

[JosiahD]

"Distaste". That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. Inconsiderately vitriolic is closer to the mark but how I really want to describe it would get me banned!

Well, there are extreme views on both sides of the argument, that is true. That's not ever going to change though.

 

[JosiahD]

I really hope you're not suggesting that I've been vitriolic

To be honest, no - I don't judge you as one of 'those' types of PvPers, based on forum posts.

 

[MarkAusten]

I really hope you're not suggesting that I've been vitriolic

Nope, not even close but some commanders have pushed vitriolic way out in the left field!

- - - Updated - - -

Well, there are extreme views on both sides of the argument, that is true. That's not ever going to change though.

I can understand that people have diametrically opposed points of view and that's fine. I can also understand that some people are incapable of giving any opinion but their own any respect. But sometimes I do wonder if some commanders are being deliberately obtuse just to provoke a response.

And some commanders i just want to beat over the head with clue by four!!!

Funny old world.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Thanks for taking a moment to clarify; yes, that's about what I thought PvE Open would be like, I was just double checking because of a few comments that made it sound otherwise.



I maintain that PvE Open sounds like a dreadfully boring place to play. Without the fear of violence to spice things up, there no reason to grow as a player. I gather that this is an unpopular attitude here, and I mean no disrespect by it, but when there is no risk, there is no incentive to improve your skills as a player, and I can't picture anything more boring.

Instead of the dev's wasting their precious time on an Open PvE mode, what I'd really like them to do is strip group and solo and throw us all together in gen pop

Open pve benefits pvpers because presumably the people who stay in open would be the ones happy to accept pvp and therefore less likely to log at the 1st sign of strife, which according to some on here is the norm.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Open pve benefits pvpers because presumably the people who stay in open would be the ones happy to accept pvp and therefore less likely to log at the 1st sign of strife, which according to some on here is the norm.

Nope, just splits the player base yet again, and also splits development efforts.

Another assumption is that all of the PvP players are constantly looking for any sign of life to pounce on it and vaporize. This assumption amuses me, because it assumes that the PvP players either...

A: Magically appeared in the game with a fished out Corvette from the very beginning and have no rebuy costs.

B: Bought said Corvette with credits earned strictly in solo because they're afraid of flying anything else in Open.

I always love the happy little illusions people build up to support their self-inflicted anxieties. Yet ultimately I just wish everyone would shut up and focus on making suggestions that actually improve the game, instead of cutting it off at the knees by overreacting to minor annoyances.

 

[JosiahD]

Nope, just splits the player base yet again, and also splits development efforts.

Another assumption is that all of the PvP players are constantly looking for any sign of life to pounce on it and vaporize. This assumption amuses me, because it assumes that the PvP players either...

A: Magically appeared in the game with a fished out Corvette from the very beginning and have no rebuy costs.

B: Bought said Corvette with credits earned strictly in solo because they're afraid of flying anything else in Open.

I always love the happy little illusions people build up to support their self-inflicted anxieties. Yet ultimately I just wish everyone would shut up and focus on making suggestions that actually improve the game, instead of cutting it off at the knees by overreacting to minor annoyances.

Except it won't split the playerbase as much as you think - most of those who will use it have already left open for solo and private groups like Mobius. Ergo, the bulk of what it will do is actually concentrate PvE focused players into a single mode (except for those who simply don't want multiplayer and will stay in solo, which is perfectly fine). That's not splitting the playerbase further but trying to reconcentrate a large part of it. What it will do to the current open mode is reduce the population in that mode further as players who want an open PvE experience devoid of PvP move across (and whom some PvPers insist should be in private or solo anyway) but that is arguably good for genuine PvPers as it will mean those remaining actually WANT PvP, or at least are more accepting of it (and less likely to combat log?). And just how many open players would move is practically unquantifiable at present. At the same time it hurts the less desirable elements of the PvP community as they lose the soft targets they crave for nothing more than player killing. If less population in open is a concern for PvPers at large (a reasonable concern I might add), then the unacceptable behaviour of certain PvPers, in turn at least largely responsible for both the migration of players from open and motivation of combat logging, needs to be halted. Can't see much sign of those types of PvPers acknowledging their role in all this though.