All this because I suggested the Db query might be cumbersome.
Don't mind me Sylow. I'm just here to see no one gets their way because I can't get my way.
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Galaxy-Wide Cartographic Data for Explored Systems
- Thread starter Old Duck
- Start date
Filter for the entire galaxy isn't a problem at all. The game would perfectly be able to handle showing explored or unexplored systems in the galaxy map using a filter and that for the entire galaxy. There is no need for any detailed exploration data to be retrieved. It's a simple boolean flag. Does this system has exploration data yes or no. Based on that flag the star gets rendered in the galaxy map.
Nothing wrong with being critical weather something will work. I've said something about it not being an issue. Can you tell me based on that why you think it's still an issue?
Nah. You might be right, and I'm not sure.
On reflection - I wouldn't have such a variety of filters - to my mind, the list you suggested *would* make exploring a bit too "easy mode" for my liking. I like to think that a "visited" tag might suffice for this "GalScan" proposal - which wouldn't offend too many people due to the notion that a "visited" tag doesn't mean that every single body has been scanned/discovered/or mapped. You'd have to visit the system and honk for yourself to truly find if the data available in the GalRepository was complete or not. GalRepository = data you could notionally buy, because it has been scanned and then sold to a Cartographics Dealer by a CMDR. There may be clues when you remotely view the system map - like gaps where bodies have not been scanned, etc, but this wouldn't always be the case if it were just the outer bodies that were not discovered yet...
A system like that wouldn't upset the status quo by too much, unlike the system you suggest, which gives, potentially, too much info compared to what we have now?
The logic for me behind my system is that in former times the ADS simply showed all bodies in the system and the new FSS also right after the honk knows how many bodies are present. So if you sell data, your data package always also contains how many bodies would be present. It's really not that hard for anybody to count the number of reported bodies to the maximum number of bodies there.
Still, it's a matter of taste. While i'd actually like what i described, i see where you're coming from. You like to keep things a bit more mysterious, while what i suggest would provide more direct info. But even an system with a bit more "obscurity" built into it would help things.
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When you say "quickest and easiest way to implement", are you talking about the work Frontier needs to do to bring it to us, or the work we do as explorers? I personally think using an existing mechanism already in the game (the ability to buy a system map for nearby planets in the Bubble) would be the quickest and easiest for Frontier to program, since all Frontier needs to do is flip some switches in the database (and maybe rewrite a line of code in the game) to "unlock" this data for all discovered systems.
My method is obviously not quick or easy for the player to use in comparison to a filter, as it requires being at station and manually combing the galaxy map, looking for systems of interest before heading out, but that makes the adventure feel all the more like a proper expedition. It also greatly reduces the load on the database, and prevents finding undiscovered systems too easily.
ps - my system also adds a little bit of risk, because who is to say an undiscovered system isn't found by someone else between the time you leave the station, scan the system, and return with your cartography data?
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The logic for me behind my system is that in former times the ADS simply showed all bodies in the system and the new FSS also right after the honk knows how many bodies are present. So if you sell data, your data package always also contains how many bodies would be present. It's really not that hard for anybody to count the number of reported bodies to the maximum number of bodies there.
Still, it's a matter of taste. While i'd actually like what i described, i see where you're coming from. You like to keep things a bit more mysterious, while what i suggest would provide more direct info. But even an system with a bit more "obscurity" built into it would help things.
I like your description of my overall intent. The word "mysterious" really fits. Thanks.
Part of the experience of exploring has always been not knowing exactly what you'll find when jumping into a system - including whether it has been previously visited, or not. For example, I recently went looking for an elusive Carbon, or AeBe Herbig star in the Gal Map, around 5 kylies out. I found an AeBe and plotted a route. On the final jump, having seen a few CMDR names on the route there, and some names more than once (which means they have probably been travelling in a similar direction...) it is mildly amusing that you get a palpable sense of Will It or Won't It be already visited/tagged. Followed either by a sense of Eureka or a sense of Disappointment. It's the Mystery that elicits such an emotional response over something that is, in the scheme of things, not really very relevant. In fact entirely irrelevant, if I'm honest. But the response that the Mystery stimulates is what makes exploring much less boring than it really ought to be, and the perhaps the reason some players find it so compelling. I really enjoy it. Exploration for exploration's sake.
On balance, I judge that giving too much away would have too much of an impact - too big a change from the status quo - and I would therefore endorse a visited tag with no other embellishing information.
If you could buy the data, or GalScan a region, or whatever, all you'd get would be access to the scanned system maps - but only as far as it had been scanned by all other CMDRs up to that point (or perhaps that's too big a change? Perhaps you'd need to include future updates in the bought bundle?) - afterwards, access to the system map doesn't include an added tag - simply an indication that the system has been previously scanned and no other "tag" (for example "visited") would need to be added to the game - it is intrinsic in being able to view the system map remotely - but only in as much detail as had already been uncovered and with no added indication whether that map is complete or not.
That's the change that I'd endorse, because I think it offers the optimum compromise of offering a bit more exploration opportunity than we have at the moment, without diverging significantly from what we have now, and for very little investment by FDev.
Discuss...
Yours Aye
Mark H
Either through a new GalScan module, or by adding the ability to buy data from Cartographics - probably reduced to the current regions
Hmm. Basically it was both, but you are right. What you suggest would actually be even a tad easier to implement than what i was thinking of. And for me, either would be a nice and worthy upgrade of the game. I'd prefer my way, but I admit that it's more a convenience thing and would allow lazy-me to get things done smoother.
Necro Post I know but still....
One thing I’ve thought of is the way that ship captains used to guard their charts when exploring. A while ago I saw a cmdr try to finagle another cmdr’s location during a forum discussion and it made me think about how data would be shared.
Take the instance I described above. There are cmdrs out there who are perfectly happy tucked away in their corner of the galaxy where they have a monopoly on exploration simply due to the fact that no one else has been through. If you implement the system as described in this thread you’ll have some very po’d cmdrs who are happy with the status quo.
However if you had a mechanism whereby you could sell/share your personal exploration data then I would be all for it.
An example of how this could work is that as you sell your exploration data you’re given the option to make it public or private. For those who want to contribute to their fellow cmdrs ability to explore without running across their back trail they could do so while those more private individuals could continue to explore as they like without being forced to share.
Just a thought
One thing I’ve thought of is the way that ship captains used to guard their charts when exploring. A while ago I saw a cmdr try to finagle another cmdr’s location during a forum discussion and it made me think about how data would be shared.
Take the instance I described above. There are cmdrs out there who are perfectly happy tucked away in their corner of the galaxy where they have a monopoly on exploration simply due to the fact that no one else has been through. If you implement the system as described in this thread you’ll have some very po’d cmdrs who are happy with the status quo.
However if you had a mechanism whereby you could sell/share your personal exploration data then I would be all for it.
An example of how this could work is that as you sell your exploration data you’re given the option to make it public or private. For those who want to contribute to their fellow cmdrs ability to explore without running across their back trail they could do so while those more private individuals could continue to explore as they like without being forced to share.
Just a thought
Necro Post I know but still....
One thing I’ve thought of is the way that ship captains used to guard their charts when exploring. A while ago I saw a cmdr try to finagle another cmdr’s location during a forum discussion and it made me think about how data would be shared.
Take the instance I described above. There are cmdrs out there who are perfectly happy tucked away in their corner of the galaxy where they have a monopoly on exploration simply due to the fact that no one else has been through. If you implement the system as described in this thread you’ll have some very po’d cmdrs who are happy with the status quo.
However if you had a mechanism whereby you could sell/share your personal exploration data then I would be all for it.
An example of how this could work is that as you sell your exploration data you’re given the option to make it public or private. For those who want to contribute to their fellow cmdrs ability to explore without running across their back trail they could do so while those more private individuals could continue to explore as they like without being forced to share.
Just a thought
I would tend to agree with the ethos behind this as well.
There are quite a few basic ideas that could be implemented from the discussion points above, but the balance of visiting and scanning stuff yourself ought to be preserved in some way...
One thing that I find inconsistent and irksome in the current game mechanic is that when you drop in a new system, if the data for that system has been sold to a cartography dealer anywhere in the galaxy, then the objects in the system you've just arrived in - the ones that have already been discovered and tagged - those objects appear instantaneously on the ship scanner. Instantaneously. Before honking it for yourself. This is an inconsistency I'd prefer to be removed or worked around in some meaningful way. It is clear that the in game logic allows our ship's computer to access the Galactic Repository for scanned systems, but limited to only the system you are presently in. Which is just weird and gamey.
As you say - there could be different levels of data sale. Your system of Private or Public is a potential way to do this.
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Private data sale = sell of data to a dealer but then not for resale purposes = data does not appear on a Public Galactic Repository:
Private sale pros and cons?
Does the sale to a private buyer then empty your data store and render you unable to sell it to another private buyer? This would be an odd twist. You've sold the data to a single entity, who cannot then re-sell it. What is the data value to that single entity if they cannot re-sell the data. Mostly, not very valuable. Unless, perhaps, it contains "rare" locations that are of interest to that individual. The likes of Felicity Farseer, or Prof Palin, or even Ram Tah may be amongst the limited and hand-selected markets for "Private" and "Exclusive" sale, that removes the data from your computer in order that it can't be sold again. "Private Exclusive" data is worth "x" amount
For non-selected individuals, the data has no special value, so the value could be "y" amount when sold to a single entity as a "Private" sale, but then it could also be re-sold elsewhere.
"y" value would need to be a lot less than "x" value - at least a factor of 10, perhaps even 100 or even 1,000, because you could go on selling the data privately at every single star port you visit because the scan data doesn't get removed from your computer?!?!
"Normal Private" sales would end up being perhaps nigh-on value-less in order to retain game balance.
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Public data sale = sell the data and the rights for resale of that data = increased pay-out over basic Private "x", but need to discuss on how to balance "Public" versus "Exclusive Private" data sales.
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With a suggestion like the above, you'd have a system where you could sell privately, and the objects then wouldn't appear immediately on your scanner as you enter a new system, but this in itself then needs to be addressed...
If your ship's computer can access the central store (as it clearly does right now) and immediately reveal the positions of un-discovered stars and planetary objects, even prior to a honk, then why is this data not available elsewhere. Why do you need to travel to a system if your computer already has the information, but withholds it until you get there?
This is a gamey inconsistency, and one I'd like to make more logical sense in the game environment.
I can think of at least a few methods to make this less of an inconsistency. First, left of arc, perhaps limit the range of the ship's computer's ability to interrogate the Galactic Repository to "z" light years, or perhaps only to the target you've selected for your next possible jump, which is a spherical interrogation limit equal to your max(or current max with fuel load and cargo adjusted) jump range. Perhaps the limit could be twice your ship's max jump range (jumponium).
On the right of arc would be that you select any object in the GalMap from any position in the Galaxy and it would be available to "buy" the data or have it available for free??? - but what detail would be available using this method of interrogation is also up for discussion...
The options are legion, but some level of balance clearly needs to be observed.
Yours Aye
Mark H
I agree, its annoying to spend two days in transit then find your target system already checked, its 3305 guys, this information should be readily available! Would it take the core out of ED? Well put that info to the masses and watch the race across the galaxy begin! At the very least, maybe shiw us how many systems in a sector are discovered via a percentage at least (Per sector).