ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.2

My engineered KWS (fast scan) still relies on the normal target scanner to display the details of a scanned ship, that may need some work.
 
... and you want a bigger payout for no risk?

Sounds perfectly normal for this forum ;)
I'd like more reward / hour as is the goal of this balance pass. To make bounty hunting more motivating, as it's still a slower earner than mining or some missions like Boom deliveries.
 
How can you enforce that?
One can ALWAYS opt to get the freewinder.

Say I rack up said billion bounty, flying a conda.
Now I let myself get killed by a new player to "give" him the money, then I pick a freewinder, and ask my carrier to come and pick me up.
I won't miss the money for the conda, since I'm the one "giving the money away".

IIRC player bounties are capped at 2m or so to avoid an exploit like this already.
Racking up the 1bil of bounty will take a while as the limit is/was(?) a little under 6mil per kill. With the changes to the "mineable" mats it's much faster to do missions and trade nowadays if you want to setup somebody else with a big wallet. You also have carrier trade to do the same.
Removing the wing-multiplier is what should be happening, for both PvP and PvE. It doesn't make sense that 4 people doing the same task get paid 4 times as much as people doing it alone. Same thing should happen for wing missions, up the overall payout but divide the individual payout by the number of people in the wing.

Let´s supose 4 commanders make a wing to hunt a commander that has 1 billion on his head.
we kill him, but there is a "tax" of about, let´s suppose, 20%. So we receive 800 millions, divided between the four of us = 200 millions each one.
I'm all for removing and not just upping the player bounty cap, but it needs to be decoupled from all the other game mechanics to close the existing exploits.

I think if the bounty is divided between the wing members it should be enough to close the money exploit or make it more time consuming compared to other activities. It might also close the bgs exploit partially[1], but it would be better if player bounties don't count towards bgs inf similar to mined goods.


[1] you would still have the issue of being able to fast generate high bounties for asset controlling factions with no bounty farming spots.
 
Last edited:
I Think the massacre mission need a change.
Actual i can see mission of massacre in solo where i need to kill 90 ships for 51Milion or other of 64 for 35Milion and you have less of 21h to end. Also there are Wing massacre of about 40ships that give you around 25Milion, these missions have a lot time consuming for reaching the target, if you are lucky few LS but can happen to travel over 200K ls.
So in my opinion the number of ships in solo should be no more of 40 and max 80 in wing, also the time for completing the mission should be of at least 3 days! ^^
 
I'd like more reward / hour as is the goal of this balance pass. To make bounty hunting more motivating, as it's still a slower earner than mining or some missions like Boom deliveries.
But is far more interesting than mining...
I don't Bounty Hunt for credits but for mats, which are a much more valuable incentive. If I want credits Wing Massacre missions are very good - and there is always a war to play in somewhere. The last war I played 3 sessions and made over a billion credits, but that was in a wing of 4.
 
people earn 30m/h by regular bh without any mission, and still complain on it...
IMO the best combat activity should be AX, after it CZ, after it massacres/assasinations, and aaafter it farming in RES, now massacres are king, and farming in RES is duke. I like idea of increase bounty, but Fdev forgot about AX and CZ :)
 
We're discussing player bounties internally and considering an increase to the current cap on those. This needs to be decided carefully to avoid exploitation.
Well Rank Grind isn't tied to Credits. And well Credits can already be transferred via Fleet Carriers now. If you still wish to make exploits unappealing by adding taxes to any player bounty. Maybe even add brackets based on the size:
So bounties of 20 kills or less gives you only 20% of the target's bounties.
Then add 1% for every X additional murder up to 50%.
So at best you would need at least 50 murders under your hood to gain the maximum credit transfer rate. I can't get some good numbers of the exact minimal bounty you would be running around at that point, but I assume that at that point doing everything with the help of some FC owner would be faster/more efficent.

On the other hand it could still be a nice payout using the right numbers, one could assume
 
A lot has happened in the short amount of time since then. We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned.
If you're able to add frequently mentioned things to the rebalance list then for all that's good in the world add smuggling to that list.

Do not operate under the assumption current smuggling rewards are sufficient. Smuggling currently DOES NOT WORK, and offers no rewards in almost all cases.

I know the -25% debuff issue was acknowledged, but I don't think it's understood how much it affects smuggling. This isn't a "reduced profits" issue, this is 25% off the raw cost of goods when selling to the black market. That is, the only way to turn even a minimal profit is to make over 25% profit on the purchase price. That's only found on the most expensive commodities such as Nerve Agents, occasionally Narcotics and Illegal Rares, and even then that means you only break even at that point. Everything else is guaranteed to spin a loss.

I can understand the want for smuggling to be substantially different to standard trading, but I also think a false assumption is being made that Smuggling actually works.

Smuggling does not work. It must be part of this balance.

Bounties
Bounties from NPCs will see significant increases from approximately four times as much for the highest paying ones to ten times as much for the lower paying ones. Please note that the number of credits shown immediately in your HUD when you destroy a criminal ship won't display the newly increased amounts. This will need to wait until we're certain of the final numbers. Accurate bounty figures can be found in the Transactions tab in your left panel.
I notice here you're just talking about "NPCs" generally. I think the nuance is missed in the different difficulty of NPCs, specifically Engineered NPC pirates at Threat 5/6 Pirate Activity sites.

The issue with combat payouts is not the general payouts, but that the hard targets pay out insufficiently for the increase in difficulty. A vanilla Anaconda is substantially easier than a fully engineered Vulture NPC. Yet an Anaconda will reward anywhere up to 300-400k in bounty, where the Engineered NPC vulture will only earn roughly 50-100k. This is back-to-front.

I can only highly recommend that the overall bounty payout tables get revisited, and that the discrepancy between engineered and non-engineered targets be addressed. To spitball, I would suggest that an engineered variant pay 10 times what it's vanilla counterpart would, using pre-balance figures as a guide. (i.e 500k for an engineered vulture, up to 3-4m for a fully engineered conda/similar.

Solo Combat Missions
We're also increasing the payouts for Massacre and Assassination missions.
Assassination missions, sure, that's fine, but increasing payouts for Massacres? That's pure insanity!

Cross-stacking massacre missions was the only activity which could compete with pre-balance mining incomes. Last balance iteration you nixed mining profits, expected. But now you want to increase massacre mission payouts? That's the exact opposite of what needs to happen. Massacre payouts need to be either:
- drastically reduced; or
- cross-faction stacking be removed; or
- rework massacres into USS-based wave combat scenarios so they can't cross-stack, rather than be arbitrary kill counts.

First two are the only feasible ones I imagine, if tweaking numbers is the plan right now, but the third is really the main target you should be aiming for.



On an aside, WRT AX Combat payouts, I do note that Thargoid commodities got a buff at Betancourt Base, which is welcomed and actually pretty considered. But the issue of Thargoid tissue sampling being horribly broken is still extant. This is a great change, but when less than 25% of research limpets actually return a biopsy, it's a pretty pointless exercise.

 
Last edited:
Grind != challenge. Challenge shouldn't come from the amount of credits earned but rather the difficulty of the task used to achieve those credits. Thankfully I can give myself all the challenge I could want by flying non-meta ships like my shieldless combat Cobra or even my Eagle.
I agree, while i find that a dificult/dangerous task should also pay well i also think that the challenge should be dificulty and repeating the same thing over and over again like grinding those currier missions for Navy rank. like sure there should be some low level pirates for newe players but there should be some very dificult pirates, i want to have some good fights against npc pirates and not be forced to fight players or Goids for a good fight.
 
Smuggling does not work. It must be part of this balance.
I'm so with you on that. I have a smuggling Python perfectly engineered to the task that hasn't seen any smuggling action since the days of Sothis and Robigo, and back then engineering didn't yet exist. Instead it's a glorified outpost cargo mission runner....
 
I'm so with you on that. I have a smuggling Python perfectly engineered to the task that hasn't seen any smuggling action since the days of Sothis and Robigo, and back then engineering didn't yet exist. Instead it's a glorified outpost cargo mission runner....
Smuggling still has some niche uses, none of them will make you rich though. Lowering a station controllers influence is one, supporting an anarchy faction that offers way too many of those mission is the other. For those not into BGS it's about as useful as trading rares and other long forgotten activities.
 
Grind != challenge. Challenge shouldn't come from the amount of credits earned but rather the difficulty of the task used to achieve those credits. Thankfully I can give myself all the challenge I could want by flying non-meta ships like my shieldless combat Cobra or even my Eagle.
Why do you think I pirate in a T7? :D
 
Smuggling still has some niche uses, none of them will make you rich though. Lowering a station controllers influence is one, supporting an anarchy faction that offers way too many of those mission is the other. For those not into BGS it's about as useful as trading rares and other long forgotten activities.
As far as I'm aware, those secondary influence/economy/security effects do not work when you don't turn a profit.

This parallels with normal trading; you only get positive influence and economic effects from standard trading when it turns a profit. If it turns a loss, it doesn't (in fact, the opposite happens, lost influence and econ)

I'd disagree with your assertion re: rare's trading. The situation is far worse, since at least rares actually turn a profit.
 
With the cap on LTD prices piracy - which never paid all that well to begin with - has gotten an indirect nerf. And along with smuggling appears to have been largely overlooked in the combat changes.

Any love out there for independent entrepreneurs?
 
Racking up the 1bil of bounty will take a while as the limit is/was(?) a little under 6mil per kill. With the changes to the "mineable" mats it's much faster to do missions and trade nowadays if you want to setup somebody else with a big wallet. You also have carrier trade to do the same.
Removing the wing-multiplier is what should be happening, for both PvP and PvE. It doesn't make sense that 4 people doing the same task get paid 4 times as much as people doing it alone. Same thing should happen for wing missions, up the overall payout but divide the individual payout by the number of people in the wing
That's where the whole wing system is flawed to start with.
Any wing reward should be split between the wing, not awarded each.
A wing mission should pay up to 4 times as much, say 12m for a wing kill mission. Do it alone, you get 12m. Do it with 2 people, splits 50:50, etc.
 
Top Bottom