ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

[Darth Ender]

i'd be thoroughly surprised if anything changed in regards to risk when it comes to missions or any kind of gameplay updates when it comes to missions.

We still dont have proper escort missions ....something games from the 90's had

We still dont have proper persistent npcs.

Branching mission trees are a joke if they exist at all currently in the game.

There's little production investment in the mission givers and the surrounding outcomes of missions (both for those that complete it or those that abandon it) and little to no longterm persistent memory factions or mission givers have of players previous mission outcomes. Missions dont feel like you're getting deeper into the game universe. They feel like arbitrary offerings of different rewards for arbitrary tasks that end up having no impact on anything.

 

[Toxophilite]

(And the Beluga is actually difficult to dock.)

Who is docking their T9 or Defender manually? They barely fit through the docking slots, and docking them manually means damage and/or fines or destruction because they sometimes get stuck.

Mate.... spend some time flying. Plenty of folk don't use a DC. I'm definitely no ace but I fly a beluga, t9 and t10 a lot - I've never used a DC - you can get 2 T-9s or 2 belugas through the slot side by side (done it plenty of times, and if you pay attention to cockpit placement and visual cues its not that hard). If you think otherwise you haven't been paying attention, or haven't been flying enough to judge.

 

[Darth Ender]

They should also be moved out of Power Play and into the Tech Broker. Ship modules don't belong in Power Play.

Powerplay modules would not be a problem and indeed, be a good asset ...if those modules stopped working anytime you were not rank 3 or above in that power.

 

[CMDR ZorgTheBorg]

AX combat should be paying at least 10x of what is now. It's easily the highest risk activity in the game, barring PvP of course.

 

[aRJay]

You technically would gain a slot. Instead of SC+DA=2 slots, it'd be DA/SC in one. The FSS doesn't actually take up a slot so making it optional would cause you to balance out in @limpetdwarf example.

You are assuming they fit SCA and DC modules, not everybody does.

 

[limpetdwarf]

The PLANETARY APPROACH SUITE is automatically in the ship and it takes up a slot. If you remove it, and you can, then the ship becomes essentially unnavigable.

Actually, I tried that yesterday when I wanted to fit a module and found that it wasn't possible. I wanted to keep the SCA and needed a slot for another module.

Why does the ship become unnavigable? As long as I'm not trying to land on a planet, I should be fine.

Here again is an example of the desire for the "arcade" experience.
In this case you don't want to have to worry about "module space allocations". You want every module that relieves you of having to actually fly your ship permanently installed on every ship so you have the module slot available for other things.
Space allocation (in the early AD&D games it was weight, something I think would make more sense in a space ship) makes a player have to do something the arcadists don't like to do.
THINK and PLAN.
Do I want this Armor or this Weapon? Do I really need to carry this extra thing I only use 1% of the time?
Do I want to be able to put everything on auto pilot using SCA and AAD, (some 1% stuff) or do I want an SRV Hanger and/or an FSD Booster and/or a DSS and/or a collector controller and/or a prospector controller. There isn't a ship that will let you have all 7 at the same time and still have room for other more necessary things.

Wow, that from someone who insists on cheating by using multiple ships in a wing all the time to gain advantages for himeself! Really?

Here's only one example: I can turn on the docking computer and/or SCA and keep playing, or I can stop playing and do something else to relax. As a game manufacturer who wants to make money through people playing his games, what would you rather have me do? As someone who is playing his games, would you rather have it that the manufacturer is doing well so you can keep playing the game(s) you enjoy, or would you rather see the manufacturer go bancrupt because nobody cares about his games and find that you can't play anymore?

Did you leave half the module slots of your two ships empty so that you need to plan better?

 

[aRJay]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I never saw any such information in the FSS, and when I scan, I don't look at the bodies because I never had a reason to.

Looking or zooming in on the bodies is where all the information, and possibly most of the credits is.

 

[aRJay]

....

Here's only one example: I can turn on the docking computer and/or SCA and keep playing, or I can stop playing and do something else to relax. As a game manufacturer who wants to make money through people playing his games, what would you rather have me do? As someone who is playing his games, would you rather have it that the manufacturer is doing well so you can keep playing the game(s) you enjoy, or would you rather see the manufacturer go bancrupt because nobody cares about his games and find that you can't play anymore?

As Frontier don’t charge you for the time you play but just for the original purchase of the game and any cosmetics you buy, it doesn’t make any difference which you do.

 

[Adalphage]

Sincerely, I would love to have DC and SA merged. Not because I can't park a Type-9 or a Beluga, which I can and I normally do. Just because two modules for that feels like a lot of punishment. I can underestand one module wasted for have that advantatge, but not two. And, to be honest, in some repetive tasks like the actual CG, parking 20 times per hour can be a bit tedious. Perhaps they could merge them into a new "Navigation Computer". In fact, if you don't want any of the prestations of the modules merged, you can just disable it like now you can.

 

[CMDR Shuuichi Muraii]

You are assuming they fit SCA and DC modules, not everybody does.

You are correct, but statement was made assuming one wanted to. If you don't then the statement is moot since it doesn't matter.

 

[limpetdwarf]

It shows you in the Help for the FSS, which is located in the game and automatically run on the first use of the FSS, that you can view extra information about a body. Including the materials it has and if it has any locations.

It says it zooms in to the signal source and then shows additional information. That's all, so using the scanner, I see it shows the metal contents, ok, next one, metal contents, next one, more metal contents, ok, they're all the same, so next one, next one ... who cares.

It does not say that it shows geological features, so how would I know that? Even if I happen to see any geological features, at the point I'm first using the scanner and am trying to figure out how to scan a system, it's likely that I don't know what it means.

It's like the engineers when the first one says 'I want sulfur' and before you give me some, you can't do anything. Ok, I don't have sulfur and I don't know how to get some, so forget it and do something else.

It's missing information and no ways to learn for the players that makes the game fail miserably.

Now granted this has changed a little bit to make it easier for people, after player feedback. So now it splits out locations (Thargoid, Guardian, Human) that resolve instantly, from the Biological/Geological features which you can see if there are any instantly, but take a while to resolve the scan to tell you exactly how many of each there are.

And how would I know this? I just scan as fast as I can to get on with it and have no reason to look at all the metal contents. They mean nothing to me. Some time later they might, and that means I need to look at external tools to find places at which I could find particular metals. There is no reasonable way in the game to get that information, no matter how many systems I may have scanned.

If there is interest in improving the game, things like that need to be improved upon. Adjusting prices and rewards is falling way too short.

 

[Drelthar]

As a game manufacturer who wants to make money through people playing his games, what would you rather have me do?

I dunno, I'd hope I'd have some level of care about the integrity of my artwork, rather than purely trying to spurt out stuff for the lowest common denominator to chew on before they take their daily propaganda course and perform their boondoggles for progress.

 

[Maymo]

It says it zooms in to the signal source and then shows additional information. That's all, so using the scanner, I see it shows the metal contents, ok, next one, metal contents, next one, more metal contents, ok, they're all the same, so next one, next one ... who cares.

It does not say that it shows geological features, so how would I know that? Even if I happen to see any geological features, at the point I'm first using the scanner and am trying to figure out how to scan a system, it's likely that I don't know what it means.

It's like the engineers when the first one says 'I want sulfur' and before you give me some, you can't do anything. Ok, I don't have sulfur and I don't know how to get some, so forget it and do something else.

It's missing information and no ways to learn for the players that makes the game fail miserably.



And how would I know this? I just scan as fast as I can to get on with it and have no reason to look at all the metal contents. They mean nothing to me. Some time later they might, and that means I need to look at external tools to find places at which I could find particular metals. There is no reasonable way in the game to get that information, no matter how many systems I may have scanned.

If there is interest in improving the game, things like that need to be improved upon. Adjusting prices and rewards is falling way too short.

At this point I’m really thinking this just isn’t the game for you mate.

 

[limpetdwarf]

As was ponited out above, when SuperCruise Assist and AdvancedAutodock were introduced to help new players, small ships gained additional two slots, while the rest gained additional 1 slot. - players can fit those modules if they need assistance (they come fitted with new ships), without sacrificing space. The fact you can install something else there is a bonus. You can look at it this way - those are integrated modules that you can actually uninstall and gain additional slots- if they would be truly integrated - those slots would be removed.

That doesn't mean that the slots should be removed. That a tool was upgraded in the past and can now be further improved doesn't mean that the upgrade should be undone to make the tool less useful in order to improve it. It would be stupid to do that.

What's mining fortress? Why are you using some made up things as an argumentation?

If you had followed this thread, you'd know what it is. I'm not using it as an argumentation but as an example and am making a suggestion.

Bigger ships gained one slot to fit someting like SCA or whatever.

It doesn't make any sense that the smaller ships should get more slots then the bigger ones. It's not like they had more room and were not easier to dock.

You are clearly inexperienced. That's another reason why we need progression at reasonable speed, so players are able to learn how to fly, before getting big, expensive ships they will then stick into mail slots.
When you fly long enough it's not a problem to fit those big ships through the slot. Actually, at some point you start to discover that station mail slot is getting bigger.

Your clearly inexperienced since you obviously haven't tried it.

If you want a game that consists of nothing but holding players back and forces them to grind and to do stupid repetitive tasks, that's ok. It's not the kind of game I would play, and Elite deserves better than that.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Here is the insanity I am having with PG and Wing.

Solo PG cannot wing.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[limpetdwarf]

For the most part not being able to see into a system on the other side of the bubble isn’t a problem. You can still pull up most of the important information on the galaxy map (economy/security/government/state) the only time I find it a minor problem is if i’m looking for the presence of rings to find a RES for combat.

I don't even have the option to look at the system map when I haven't scanned the system first.

‘Honking’ is firing off your discovery scanner as this is used to access the FSS.

That shows only some percentage of the system.

[quit]
So I’ll jump into an unexplored system and honk. Open the FSS while scooping and see what I’ve found. The signals depicted on the scanner tell me what specific bodies are in the system. If it’s just a bunch of rock and ice I’ll usually just move on...(no zooming in and out)

...but if there’s high metal worlds/ww’s/ELW’s then the scanning starts (and mapping if things are good enough).

I used to dislike the FSS when it was introduced, I’m a visual person and I used to enjoy opening the system map and immediately seeing the shiny with the old ADS approach. But the FSS has grown on me and it does save me a lot of time.
[/QUOTE]

So you're omitting most of the data and have to come back later to scan if you want to know about a system you've already visited. I prefer not to have to come back. The FSS doesn't save any time at all, it's extremely time consuming and makes all travel through unvisited systems taking very very long.

And all that for systems that have already been scanned and explored. It makes no sense.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Mate.... spend some time flying. Plenty of folk don't use a DC. I'm definitely no ace but I fly a beluga, t9 and t10 a lot - I've never used a DC - you can get 2 T-9s or 2 belugas through the slot side by side (done it plenty of times, and if you pay attention to cockpit placement and visual cues its not that hard). If you think otherwise you haven't been paying attention, or haven't been flying enough to judge.

You seem to be using docking slots that are larger than the ones I get to use. I've been flying the T9 enough to know how that turns out and use the DC because it means less damage, less getting stuck, less trouble with traffic and lower risk to get fined.

I haven't manually docked the Beluga enough to figure it out because I didn't feel like doing it --- only enough to find out that's it's not easy to dock. There is no advantage in damaging it.

Anyway, you won't loose anything if DC and SCA were built in because you never need to use them.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Looking or zooming in on the bodies is where all the information, and possibly most of the credits is.

I'm not getting more credits when selling map data by looking longer the bodies, or do I?

Like I said, I scan so that I can use the system map in case I need to, that's all. Looking would only make it take even longer to scan a system.

 

[limpetdwarf]

As Frontier don’t charge you for the time you play but just for the original purchase of the game and any cosmetics you buy, it doesn’t make any difference which you do.

I'm not so sure if that's true when you play the xbox version.

 

[aRJay]

I'm not so sure if that's true when you play the xbox version.

I don’t have a console but as I understand it the fees for the premium account (or whatever it is called) that you need to play multiplayer games go to Microsoft not Frontier.