ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

[Juniper]

Why would they make an xbox version of ED when they're not getting some money from the subscribers?

Maybe for the same reason they make a PC version of ED and don't have any subscription. Multiplayer is free on PC.

 

[limpetdwarf]

The docking computer would need a way to be switched off if built in otherwise it would keep trying to take over when you were at zero throttle.

Of course, you can switch it on and off now and it would suck if we were forced to use it. I use it when I want to and turn it off when I don't want to use it. There's just no point in it occupying a module slot I would have other uses for.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Maybe for the same reason they make a PC version of ED and don't have any subscription. Multiplayer is free on PC.

Maybe it is for historical reasons that playing on a PC doesn't require you to subscribe and pay for it. They probably wouldn't refuse taking the money if people would pay.

Or maybe Microsoft charges them license fees to allow their game to be played on an xbox and they pay so that we can play instead of making money. Who knows ...

 

[varonica]

Maybe it is for historical reasons that playing on a PC doesn't require you to subscribe and pay for it. They probably wouldn't refuse taking the money if people would pay.

It was a decision made by FDEV that they wouldn't be charging a subscription for the game, that's the reason they don't require us to play.

There is also no subscription to play the game on Xbox or PS, any charges levied by MS or Sony for playing on their networks are purely their decisions and all the money goes to them.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Elite doesn't hold you back. Whatever you want to do, you can, from the very begginning.

That's not true. I wanted to try out the T9, for example, at the very beginning. Maybe you haven't noticed, but you can't do that unless you have lots of money. At the rate at wich money can be made without getting lucky with mining, there is no point in even trying to get that kind of money from the beginning.

 

[limpetdwarf]

It was a decision made by FDEV that they wouldn't be charging a subscription for the game, that's the reason they don't require us to play.

There is also no subscription to play the game on Xbox or PS, any charges levied by MS or Sony for playing on their networks are purely their decisions and all the money goes to them.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Maymo]

Well, see I think the 'bedlam' you describe is inevitable... and arguably worse for Frontier as they are going to be facing this every single time they make their "holistic" change to a single thing, as they are seemingly planning to do. Better IMO to just get it all over with, and say "There now, that's the game, adjust or die, but we'll tweak things that are obviously broken as per our metrics".

I’m just saying that adjusting things gradually could cause much less upset...

If my gas bill goes up or down a quid a month I don’t blink. If it’s suddenly increased by 50% then I’m shouting at someone down the phone.

I understand the logic, but again, it's just prolonging the "pain" that players are experiencing.

Maybe, but it would give people time to adjust.
Many have lost time/credits due to such an abrupt nerf...
Losing just 20million due to a change in the game would have been easier to stomach than losing 200million.

It's not compelling though, sorry.

Don’t be, I don’t feel strongly about it either way.

I’m just glad mining is being nerfed and FD are taking some interest in balancing out activities in the game. Thought they’d given up to be honest...

 

[D.D.Hariman]

I did, I just don't believe Frontier will do that in reality. Which is why I think doing everything at once would make more sense. Should I mine this week? Or do passenger missions? Or do some bounty hunting? Maybe some exploring or trading? Maybe I should wait until next week and see what happens... don't want to waste my time do I? Next week whatever I do could be worth twice as much for the same grind thing.

Surely this is what beta servers are for.

Well. When they did everything at once with the F---C(ommoners) dump, they made a royal mess and 3 following dumps have not solved the problems.

To me it is crystal clear that even if the F---C(ommoners) dump was tested in beta, the testers were not Common ordinary players. People that play in PG. People that play in Wing. People that actually Explore or Mine in PG and/or Wing.
If the goal of this last Bummerr was to finish fixing the mining exploits they failed and simply added a new one.

I have now mined the same rock 5 times in 3 mining session and between the 2 ships I have 48 tons of Tritium and only used 12 Limpets total in less than 96 hours of real time.

BUT I have had a LOT of strange things happen.
Videos here >>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FCo_8kQtTsEuBL0hoii-7IvYnZg2QB0l?usp=sharing

I don't have the video up yet for the 3rd session but it was also weird since this time only the ship that prospected the rock could see the subsurface deposits. Video here now>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bQQgKD-YateoLuenj4u2T5k0Hhjfb4dH/view?usp=sharing The other ship could see the targeting reticulum when the first ship targeted but not the deposit.
Both ships could see and collect fragments.
Both ships could laser mine.

So. To my mind, it really doesn't matter if the DEV's do stuff in a DUMP, or they try to do it by the DRIP. The DEV's will F---- it up either way.

 

[Florenus]

That's not true. I wanted to try out the T9, for example, at the very beginning. Maybe you haven't noticed, but you can't do that unless you have lots of money. At the rate at wich money can be made without getting lucky with mining, there is no point in even trying to get that kind of money from the beginning.

T9 is yet another step in ship pregression ladder. It's part of rewards you can get for playing, which includes repeating some basic game loops.
What are you going to do with Type 9 that's different than anything that you would do with other ship? If you don' like mining, trading, exploring or combat, then how having certain ship is going to change that? It will only modify details of how you perform those game loops.
Because in Elite for all inents and purposes you are the ship (at least untill Odyssey) - T9 represents some ability at levelling up skill tree that you can unlock after playing the game and gathering coins. I just can't explain this any simpler. When you play Assassins Creed, or Witcher, or whatever game that uses this kind of progression mechanics you don't expect to unlock something at the top of the skill tree without considerable investment of time in the game. Why do you think you should be given everything in Elite without effort?

"Having" a ship is not gameplay. Being able to do anything you wish at the moment you wish it, doesn't make a good game.

 

[aRJay]

That's not true. I wanted to try out the T9, for example, at the very beginning. Maybe you haven't noticed, but you can't do that unless you have lots of money. At the rate at wich money can be made without getting lucky with mining, there is no point in even trying to get that kind of money from the beginning.

There should be a way to do a short test drive of other ships.
But apart from carrying an SLF there isn’t anything you can do in one ship that you cannot do in another if at a smaller scale.

 

[Florenus]

There should be a way to do a short test drive of other ships.

Absolutely. At the beginning I always wanted to be able to at least just check how cockpit looks like, before spending money on the ship.
I was forced to watch some obnoxious YT videos for that reason.

 

[aRJay]

Absolutely. At the beginning I always wanted to be able to at least just check how cockpit looks like, before spending money on the ship.
I was forced to watch some obnoxious YT videos for that reason.

Yes go to shipyard, select ship, scroll to third option in addition to Buy and Back which is Test, get taken to a a version of the training mission where you undock jump to a new station and dock but in the selected ship.

 

[LARY STARKEEPER]

Thanks for the suggestion! For PvP payouts specifically, how would you account for players gaming the system with friends and alt accounts?

This has been nerfed LONG time ago, because of that. But what meant to be a "temporary" straps became the rule. Any way to detect if the bounty holder is fighting back ? I remember, before the nerf, I had travelled all the bubble in search for a famous pirate. Once I found him, he killed me in no time (I was in a viper, him was in a python). But nonetheless, I liked that. Exploit are in this game since the start, and if it's not PVP, it's mining, or passenger mission. At least, uncapped bounty open some cool gameplay. Maybe players have to collect clues at multiples stations before being able to collect the bounty ? This will discourage some exploiter. And then come the combat logging problème. IMHO, someone in an instance with another player should'nt be able make his ship dissapear, even with an ALT-F4. Same for bounty holder, they should be automaticaly put into Open Play, as a crime & punishement system.

Any news about the combat balance ? I didnt played combat mission or be a bounty hunter for a long time now, because there is no point doing it.

And what about piracy ? Anyway to get a good payout from piracy ? Or smuggling ? Slaves smuggling is largely below mining or trading in term of revenue.

 

[F4fred]

I did, I just don't believe Frontier will do that in reality. Which is why I think doing everything at once would make more sense. Should I mine this week? Or do passenger missions? Or do some bounty hunting? Maybe some exploring or trading? Maybe I should wait until next week and see what happens... don't want to waste my time do I? Next week whatever I do could be worth twice as much for the same grind thing.

Surely this is what beta servers are for.

Difficult to be sure if Beta servers would give an accurate result for stuff like this. Are squads going to go on the Beta and do their normal BGS activity. I think stuff like this needs testing on the full server.

 

[The Golden Knight]

This has been nerfed LONG time ago, because of that. But what meant to be a "temporary" straps became the rule. Any way to detect if the bounty holder is fighting back ? I remember, before the nerf, I had travelled all the bubble in search for a famous pirate. Once I found him, he killed me in no time (I was in a viper, him was in a python). But nonetheless, I liked that. Exploit are in this game since the start, and if it's not PVP, it's mining, or passenger mission. At least, uncapped bounty open some cool gameplay. Maybe players have to collect clues at multiples stations before being able to collect the bounty ? This will discourage some exploiter. And then come the combat logging problème. IMHO, someone in an instance with another player should'nt be able make his ship dissapear, even with an ALT-F4. Same for bounty holder, they should be automaticaly put into Open Play, as a crime & punishement system.

Any news about the combat balance ? I didnt played combat mission or be a bounty hunter for a long time now, because there is no point doing it.

And what about piracy ? Anyway to get a good payout from piracy ? Or smuggling ? Slaves smuggling is largely below mining or trading in term of revenue.

THAT SAID, it IS fun to imagine some anti-ganker messing with the scum by just engaging "The Panic Button" and phasing away. No big deal, no real harm, you just wasted a minute of a bully's time.

 

[Juniper]

Difficult to be sure if Beta servers would give an accurate result for stuff like this. Are squads going to go on the Beta and do their normal BGS activity. I think stuff like this needs testing on the full server.

True enough, so just do it. All of it on the live server at once. Give people some warning that it's happening, and then do it.

All this drips and drabs stuff is just silly, and belies the fact that things DO impact other things, despite how FD originally envisaged.

 

[TCTowers]

I have no problem with balancing mining...but come on....

I’m not complaining that LTDs got nerfed, they earned me my Carrier (legitimately, no exploits used), but were too easy to get laser mining and thus worth too much.
The same can be said for Painite (which has funded my Carrier for the next 2 years).

I like the fact that some other refined materials have been buffed (everyone likes variety), and I also agree that Core mined products should be worth more for the extra skill involved....but here lies the problem.

I am currently in a Musgravite hotspot in a Pristine ring. I have prospected over 150 Orange Asteroids ( yes the PWS is working today, although that’s a whole different topic!). NOT ONE SINGLE CORE! Out of over 150???? This can’t be what anyone can call balanced, surely?

I’m all for more skill being rewarded with more money, and I don’t expect every 3rd, or even 10th Orange to be a Core...but not even every 150th, really???

How can you be rewarded for skill when you can’t even find anything to demonstrate your skill on?
As it currently stands anyone finding Cores, are being rewarded for blind luck, not skill.

Please FDev, consider looking into this...
Balancing is not just about monetary value.

 

[Random Player]

Greetings Commanders!

Game balance has been at the heart of many discussions around Elite Dangerous, for a long time, and rightly so. At its core, Elite Dangerous is about blazing your own trail and we want all Commanders to feel fairly rewarded for whichever path they choose.

To this end, we have taken a close look at the current state of the game and where we would like it to be. Using our data combined with your feedback, we have created a plan of incremental changes we hope will bring the key gameplay mechanics more in line with each other.

What's Changing?

Elite Dangerous has seen a lot of changes since its release in 2014. Among many other aspects of the game, these changes have affected the core gameplay elements and how players earn credits. Over that time, while we have made some balancing adjustments, these elements have inevitably grown out of sync.

In response to your feedback, will bring a series of balancing adjustments to the rate at which credits are earned in each core gameplay mechanic: mining, trade, combat and exploration. Our goal is to have rewards better match the level of skill, effort, and risk each method requires. This means we'll see increased credit rates in some activities and reductions in others.

Crucially, this re-balancing will be an ongoing process where we spend time observing how the changes affect the game and how you, the community, respond both in-game and with your feedback. This may mean several adjustments are needed for each type of gameplay before settling on final values. Giving each method attention in isolation will allow us to more accurately see the results and tweak accordingly, hence the step by step approach, but ultimately they all need to work in the context of each other.

Mining and combat stand out from your feedback as needing the most attention with regards to balancing. As such, we will begin with mining, bring the top range down to a point we see as fair and look at which aspects of mining should offer the greatest rewards based on the skill required.

After this, we intend to look at increasing bounties and solo combat missions in the weeks that follow to meet expected levels. From there we can turn to the still important but less pressing elements such as other mission types and exploration.

These changes will be woven into Elite Dangerous lore and introduced through the narrative. The first can be expected early next week in the form of a GalNet article.

Mining and Trade

Mining has been the most lucrative role within Elite Dangerous for a long time. While this makes perfect sense as pilots find, extract, and transport huge quantities of precious minerals, the gap has become disproportional. This has allowed even brand new Commanders to become wealthy enough to buy the highest performing ships very quickly. For the health and longevity of Elite Dangerous, we're going to considerably reduce the payout of this activity so that it remains lucrative but players won't feel compelled to head out to the latest triple hotspot whenever they need credits.

The following changes will be implemented early next week as a starting point:

These approximate maximum prices offered by markets for the following commodities will be introduced:

• Painite - 600,000
• Low Temperature Diamonds - 700,000
• Void Opals - 1,300,000

To recognise and reward the extra effort and skill needed for core mining, the majority of minerals extracted this way will see an increase in price, barring Void Opals mentioned above. Several mining commodities which can be bought will have the range of their prices increased, resulting in a higher number of goods with strong profit margins (25,000+) when commodity markets are in suitable states.

To benefit trade, we'll also bring the following changes:

• Commodity markets will offer the average price rather than minimum price when selling in bulk. This will affect all commodities.
• The base prices of a number of general salvage items will be increased.

What's Next?

As above, these first changes will happen early next week. We'll spend time observing their effects and listening to your feedback before deciding whether further adjustments are needed.

Next, we intend to adjust combat rewards in the form of bounties and mission payouts. You can expect to hear the planned changes before the date is announced in a post similar to this one.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding that this isn't a fast process and it will take time for the effects to become clear.

We would also most importantly like to thank you for your continued constructive feedback on this topic, which will be invaluable during this process!

Thanks for your support,

o7

How about instead of messing with things that don't really need to be messed with, you add MORE servers to account for all the free versi

I hear a lot about skill vs reward. What I don't hear is anyone saying a definite "there will be a way to earn the same income per hour, across all of the major playstyles, as a baseline."

There needs to be a balance of credits per hour earned, that is the same, for all playstyles. Regardless of skill as a baseline! If I want to earn xxxx credits per hour shooting ships, I should be able to. Same for trade. Same for exploration. Same for any type of way I want to shoot at rocks. That needs to be a baseline minimum. Otherwise you end up punishing people who do not want to play one of the playstyles, for what basically amounts to "not playing the game the way the developers want." And that baseline minimum should allow enough income to advance at a reasonable rate, which again...needs to be defined by developers. If our new pilots HAVE to work for 6 months to get a Conda, you are going to lose players.

Now if you want to richen the pot for those who do have more skill, go right ahead. Want to deliver all that Painite to a troubled pirate system? You'll get a little more, but you're also going to get shot up. Want to smuggle stuff? Same thing. See where I'm going? Things other than prices increases/decreases can be added to games to help guide the economy.

Here's what I think, if you or anyone cares. I get what you're saying, however, even in real life you get paid more for what you know, or a special skill. That's why some people are millionaire business owners or highly paid executives that all went to college or otherwise worked their butts off to master their trade, and some are just lucky. Anyway, my point is a "job" in ED should be paid on it's skill level. Now, I get what you mean about new players or fledgling players not having that "skill" yet and the degree involved in obtaining that skill. That's where DEV needs to get real creative and allow new players, that wouldn't stand a chance hauling 700t of Painite into a pirate invested sell spot in Open, so they need to devise a way to allow new players to get good in what they do. And they've done this already... it's called "Solo" mode.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

How about instead of messing with things that don't really need to be messed with, you add MORE servers to account for all the free versi


Here's what I think, if you or anyone cares. I get what you're saying, however, even in real life you get paid more for what you know, or a special skill. That's why some people are millionaire business owners or highly paid executives that all went to college or otherwise worked their butts off to master their trade, and some are just lucky. Anyway, my point is a "job" in ED should be paid on it's skill level. Now, I get what you mean about new players or fledgling players not having that "skill" yet and the degree involved in obtaining that skill. That's where DEV needs to get real creative and allow new players, that wouldn't stand a chance hauling 700t of Painite into a pirate invested sell spot in Open, so they need to devise a way to allow new players to get good in what they do. And they've done this already... it's called "Solo" mode.

They have also been given some pretty big spaces where Higher Skilled players are not allowed.

 

[aRJay]

They have also been given some pretty big spaces where Higher Skilled players are not allowed.

And even better considering higher skilled can get in there by creating an Alt, there isn't the tech available in there to create a truly overpowered build to exploit their skill advantage.