Gamescom 2015 - What will FD Unveil?

[ZeeWolf]

What is the benefit of keeping it secret?

Are they again developing something no-one asked for?

It's very possible that development has to be planned months in advance and doesn't take a couple of days. Whatever is being revealed is the sum of a team working for months. They can't just change direction every-time someone on the forum wants them to.

The secrecy is probably due to not wanting to reveal to much to "competitors" (standard practice with games studios, especially one that's been in the game this long) but also it allows them freedom without the pressure and expectation of the community. If they announced everything in development and then wanted to 'can' a sub project (in the way that mature studios have to do sometimes to survive) the community would have a field day - as we found out with the offline version.

 

[msyblade]

Again... What will you do? ™

You get out of your chair, turn around... Look down your ships interior... and? Tell me what you'll now that will keep you entertained for countless hours?

Note: When you come up with some ideas, consider how technically challenging they are... and how undoubtably the gameplay/mechanics you're suggesting are far more involved that FD have even managed to put in the core game in six months (nigh on a year infact). eg: RES = never ending queue of Wanteds turning up to commit suicide... why? How complex and logical is that mechanic for example?


Would I like to be proved wrong? Absolutely! Here's hoping FD can produce a stunning amount of new content/enhancements to ED over the coming six months... I need to see something to merit that belief first though. Powerplay has truly worried me TBH!

I think the idea is to deliver a package to a specific person at "The Hopping Thargoid" Bar and Grill, rather than just docking and clicking "Done". Or as someone else suggested, retrieving a disk from a small barren planetoid.

 

[Coolgroove]

Again... What will you do? ™

Realy? ok...

You get out of your chair, turn around... Look down your ships interior... and?

Fix something after a fight inside the ship or outside, passenger missions, passengers who can give additional mission, walk inside stations, meet other commanders, meet NPC, etc - deeper gameplay, better immersion. Board another ship maybe, salvage from old ship/station ruins, help/fix something at outposts (inside/outside), zero-G combat.....

Note: When you come up with some ideas, consider how technically challenging they are... and how undoubtably the gameplay/mechanics you're suggesting are far more involved that FD have even managed to put in the core game in six months (nigh on a year infact). eg: RES = never ending queue of Wanteds turning up to commit suicide... why? How complex and logical is that mechanic for example?

So basically your argument is that FD can't deliver.
It is simple - I don't think that expansion means that FD will stop working on a core game. I think that there are a lot of things to improve in core game, it will happen (sooner or later), and an expansion will enrich core game as well. And yes, I think FD can deliver, and it is ok if it is not as soon as I would want it to happen.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

IThe secrecy is probably due to not wanting to reveal to much to "competitors" (standard practice with games studios, especially one that's been in the game this long) but also it allows them freedom without the pressure and expectation of the community. If they announced everything in development and then wanted to 'can' a sub project (in the way that mature studios have to do sometimes to survive) the community would have a field day - as we found out with the offline version.

There are no natural competitors to ED - EVE would be the closest right now and it's a completely different genre of game. SC isn't even remotely ready so can't be considered as a competitor just yet.

Regarding the community personally I think since they took on Zac the interaction between FD and the users has improved 1000x. There are a lot of us here that given the right information and teasing could turn into a hype train for FD which would do wonders for free advertising and promotion. They (FD) need some positive spin right now as the community (IMO) is very much on a downer that feeds on itself. (Misery loves company basically)

Let's be honest here - the new feature is coming regardless; it's not going to be canned - hype it up! Give the fans of the game something to be excited about .. tease us, milk our excitement, give the game back the edge it once had. (For me DBOBE sold me his vision which is why I named the Founders - since then the hype hasn't lived up to the vision & I have felt on an ever downward spiral since - still hoping for the day FD announce something good and this could be it .. Hype it non the less and let those who truly believe in ED gloss over those who do not.)

 

[wuschelweich]

I dont know what they will deliver next but I am certain that its going to be even more boring

 

[ZeeWolf]

There are no natural competitors to ED - EVE would be the closest right now and it's a completely different genre of game. SC isn't even remotely ready so can't be considered as a competitor just yet.

Regarding the community personally I think since they took on Zac the interaction between FD and the users has improved 1000x. There are a lot of us here that given the right information and teasing could turn into a hype train for FD which would do wonders for free advertising and promotion. They (FD) need some positive spin right now as the community (IMO) is very much on a downer that feeds on itself. (Misery loves company basically) Let's be honest here - the new feature is coming regardless now; it's not going to be canned - hype it up .. give the fans of the game something to be excited about .. tease us, milk our excitement, give the game back the edge it once had. (For me DBOBE sold me his vision which is why I named the Founders - since then the hype hasn't lived up to the vision & I have felt on an ever downward spiral since - still hoping for the day FD announce something good and this could be it .. Hype it non the less and let those who truly believe in ED gloss over those who do not.)

It doesn't matter who they have identified as competitors. It's usually standard practice, some indie devs will put everything they are working on now out there - but a middle sized dev like Frontier, who are used to working for other publishers/devs will be used to secrecy. That is all.

My experience of working on a game dev team is that 12 months of my work was canned. I worked on one project for 6 months, went to work one day and was told the project was finished and the team disbanded. Then I interviewed internally to get on another project which was also canned. This is pretty standard (although unfortunate). In the case of ED I can see them starting various projects, proof of concept work and not wanting to put anything out to the public that they can't confidently deliver.

I actually quite like it that they put stuff out that they think can get by on its own merits.

Whatever they are going to reveal in three weeks won't be ready anyway, so they are in fact revealing something. But they want to reveal it in a way that presents it well for the press and everyone concerned.

Really what's the alternative?

If they say "oh we're working on planetary landings" (for example) there seems to be a massive number of people here who immediately jump to the conclusion that means the entire bedroom coding team at Frontier are only working on that and have dropped everything else.

 

[NeilF]

Fix something after a fight inside the ship or outside, passenger missions, passengers who can give additional mission, walk inside stations, meet other commanders, meet NPC, etc - deeper gameplay, better immersion. Board another ship maybe, salvage from old ship/station ruins, help/fix something at outposts (inside/outside), zero-G combat.....

Slightly "thin" and vapid descriptions, but let's go through them to flesh them out?

"Fix something after a fight inside the ship or outside" - So an engine is down to 56% after some combat, so you get out of your seat, walk down your ship (oh know, I'm in an Anaconda... zzzzz!), you reach your engines, and look at the it, and press a button to repair it. At this point something super interesting happens to merit the whole experience? Maybe something like an interdiction mini-game? What would it be?

"passenger missions" - You have to get out of your seat and fetch drinks for them? Again, what is going to drive CMDRs to do this "passenger mission"?

"walk inside stations" - Sorry, and do what? ™ Count empty corridors?

"meet other commanders" - To do what? Why would you spend minutes walking somewhere, to meet a CMDR, when you can talk to them instantly currently?

"meet NPC" - To do what? Surely we'd need far more indepth/intereting NPCs first? 6+ months on we're still waitiing.

"deeper gameplay" - Well, what is it? What is this deeper gameplay? You keep eluding to it, but never mention anything specific?

"better immersion" - Immersion can be constructive. But without it balanced with reward and gameplay it risks becoming tedious?

"Board another ship maybe" - And after you've walked around them twice, you'd do what?

"salvage from old ship/station ruins" - Are we into the realms of mini-games again. Walk around searching for things? Doesn't sound super exciting so far?

"zero-G combat" - At last we get to FPS. This is surely a major thing, but we'd need to be careful about how/where its added. eg: How do you board an enemy ship for example? And surely the biggest problem is, how do you make a FPS in ED as engaging as a dedicated FPS game?

So basically your argument is that FD can't deliver.
It is simple - I don't think that expansion means that FD will stop working on a core game. I think that there are a lot of things to improve in core game, it will happen (sooner or later), and an expansion will enrich core game as well. And yes, I think FD can deliver, and it is ok if it is not as soon as I would want it to happen.

No... I'm trying to ensure we agree how huge first person is. To actually merit its inclusion players need to have things to do that mean they want to use that mechanic. After the novelty has warn off, and you've walked down the twelth empty corridor in a station, that looks the same, then what?

We need things along the lines that DB mentioned like missions that require you to get out of your ship to complete. eg: Hunt down an animal or the like. But to generate missions like this would require a hugely complex set of mechanics, far up and beyond what we've seen thusfar in the game. And expanded/complex mechanics are what FD seem to be stearing away from if you consider PP and CQC? ie: Safer and simpler to maybe have self contained mini-games (eg: RES, or take X to Y, or go to X and blow up Y) than broader interconnecting "stateful" mechanics?


I sincerely hope FD deliver deeper core mechanics in ED. I sincerely hope FD give us astounding DLCs... But it appears it may take longer than I'd hoped. I really expected we'd have moved on by now at least as regards, missions, occupations, general space content and exploration content - Which have been left out to basically dry since (before) release really.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

"zero-G combat" - At last we get to FPS. This is surely a major thing, but we'd need to be careful about how/where its added. eg: How do you board an enemy ship for example? And surely the biggest problem is, how do you make a FPS in ED as engaging as a dedicated FPS game?

The biggest immediate problem is what happens when you get killed. In the ship we have the pretence that you are whisked away in an escape capsule to reappear in a station. FD did not want any more magic than was strictly necessary. They explicitly did not want 'cloning', etc. So, how do you continue once you are 'dead'? (Or is this enforced ironman? If so, I will stay in my seat, thanks).

 

[ozrix84]

Apparently the exclusivity of CQC is going to be in the length of days to weeks, so the announcement might actually be that - CQC for PC.

 

[NeilF]

The biggest immediate problem is what happens when you get killed. In the ship we have the pretence that you are whisked away in an escape capsule to reappear in a station. FD did not want any more magic than was strictly necessary. They explicitly did not want 'cloning', etc. So, how do you continue once you are 'dead'? (Or is this enforced ironman? If so, I will stay in my seat, thanks).

Good point! *super handwavium* will be required surely?

 

[Coolgroove]

empty... empty... empty....

Why is everything should be empty? NPC doing their things, walking down the corridors/streets, transporting cargo, drinking/talking at bars, explorers quarters, military quarters, patrols chasing/catching someone, looking for a player to give a mission, looking for a ship to leave stations, etc and many more...

At last we get to FPS. This is surely a major thing, but we'd need to be careful about how/where its added. eg: How do you board an enemy ship for example? And surely the biggest problem is, how do you make a FPS in ED as engaging as a dedicated FPS game?
...
We need things along the lines that DB mentioned like missions that require you to get out of your ship to complete. eg: Hunt down an animal or the like.

How to board.. - First you need to convince player to stop his/her ship (for example: Hostile - two ships in a wing, one is keeping lock, another approaching to board. Or Friendly - player losing oxygen, another simply needs to approach.). Then player needs to engage a mode similar to docking with a station, and following navigations for a panel in a cockpit, dock with another ship.

Aside from visuals/physics/movements/etc, for a good FPS, game needs better mission system, interesting mission that player can do inside stations. For example - passenger mission, that require you to put your passenger in cargo container and sneak it to your ship avoiding station patrols. Or even better - not only one path, but variety. Like the same mission, but battle your way to your ship and undock from station before station defences receive order to shoot you, with consequences of reputation loss and wanted status.

But to generate missions like this would require a hugely complex set of mechanics, far up and beyond what we've seen thusfar in the game. And expanded/complex mechanics are what FD seem to be stearing away from if you consider PP and CQC? ie: Safer and simpler to maybe have self contained mini-games (eg: RES, or take X to Y, or go to X and blow up Y) than broader interconnecting "stateful" mechanics?

I think that PP and CQC are simple because it's just a small free updates to keep players occupied till something big is ready. And to sell more copies of the game to wider player base. And it is OK.

Mini-games is not something bad. If you don't like it - wait for something else to do (above for example). If there is too much "simple mechanics" in the game now, it doesn't mean more complex mechanics won't happen.

Now, I'm in no way suggesting ED couldn't have a DLC to add the ability for players to wonder around their ships and stations. That's the easy part. The tricky bit is giving them anything of interest/worth to do. And to achieve that would mean giving a level of game mechanics and depth not even witnessed in the core game yet, yet alone a DLC for it.

And if it is not a DLC? If it will be full expansion, if it will change/improve many of core game mechanics, will it be better then?

Of course it is tricky, and it's chances to fail are the same as to succeed. Until FD implemented it, your point is merely a speculation on "we don't have something now, it won't be good".

I'm not trying to be glass half empty here. Just pragmatic and realistic. If we want to get out of the seat of our space ships we need entertaining, engrossing and intelligent activities to do supported by impressive gameplay mechanics. And I'm not sure we even have those yet in the seat.

Sorry, but it looks like your glass is totally empty. No ideas, no solutions, only criticism and attempts to prove that there is nothing to do and "empty".

I sincerely hope FD deliver deeper core mechanics in ED. I sincerely hope FD give us astounding DLCs... But it appears it may take longer than I'd hoped. I really expected we'd have moved on by now at least as regards, missions, occupations, general space content and exploration content - Which have been left out to basically dry since (before) release really.

Rome wasn't built in a day! Everyone wants "something" to come sonner than later, but it doen't mean if it is not there already it won't be...

 

[NeilF]

*double post* please ignore

 

[NeilF]

Sorry, but it looks like your glass is totally empty. No ideas, no solutions, only criticism and attempts to prove that there is nothing to do and "empty".

Frankly, how dare you!

You are the one promoting over simplistic ideas which you've not fleshed out as viable gameplay. Consider your very first suggestion for example, "Fix something after a fight inside the ship or outside."

I pointed out, quite validly IMHO, there needs to be more to such an idea to merit first person in ED (ie: you walk up to a unit and do?), and in doing so your response is not to elaborate on the idea, to flesh it out, and actually describe a viable interesting piece of gameplay, but instead you end up throwing a bunch of insults and rhetoric at me? Worse still it seems to be me trying to even flesh out your ideas for you to show you this issue!


If you even consider your longest suggestion of why you'd wander around a station, "NPC doing their things, walking down the corridors/streets, transporting cargo, drinking/talking at bars, explorers quarters, military quarters, patrols chasing/catching someone, looking for a player to give a mission, looking for a ship to leave stations, etc and many more..."

As lovely as that sounds, what does it actually bring to the game. You've just described ambient mechanics in a game that will require a huge amount of development work; The AI, the artwork, the audio/voices, etc etc... And out of that, you've not really added a single element of additional gameplay to merit it all? As that suggestion stands I suspect people would get tired/bored of it within an hour or two? Why keep wandering around a station to simply see NPCs doing their things?


So feel free to cast more non-fleshed out gameplay suggestions out as justification for a huge development undertaking, or indeed more cursory insults at me, but IMHO none of it changes the fact that to merit a first person element to ED in itself would not be too difficult. The difficult bit is ensuring there's enough of a reason to do it. Be it first person shooter elements, or clever multi-player bridge/cockpit elements, or immersive ways to get new bespoke first person based missions you can actually carry out in first person too. But all those are new territory for ED and into far more complex areas than FD have thusfar gone IMHO. As such, I get concerned when people seem to imply it's easy, and use simplistic descriptions to sell it, because clearly the game will be "great when we can walk around stations!"

So, as for suggesting I have, "No ideas, no solutions, only criticism," have you considered how much effort I've gone to in making suggestions for the game (be they critical or not)? Look through my signature for example... No ideas? No solutions?

Yes, I'm somewhat annoyed...

Rome wasn't built in a day! Everyone wants "something" to come sonner than later, but it doen't mean if it is not there already it won't be...

I sincerely hope you're right.

But I'm fairly certain adding more depth to the core game (missions, occupations, space content & exploration content) would give more bang-for-buck as regards increased gameplay vs development time, than adding "first person" to go and watch "NPC doing their things".

 

[Michael Brookes]

Apparently the exclusivity of CQC is going to be in the length of days to weeks, so the announcement might actually be that - CQC for PC.

It's not.

Michael

 

[Obsidian Ant]

It's not.

Michael

I think your original message was clear enough on that.

We already know it's planetary landings...





















.....

Actually any huge addition to the game is gonna be great. Looking forward to hearing about it.

 

[ozrix84]

It's not.

Michael

Okay, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Viajero]

We already know it's planetary landings...

Language! I mean... Hype!

 

[Mazhurg]

I think your original message was clear enough on that.

We already know it's planetary landings...

Nice try

Actually it's the Targoids.

 

[Sapient6]

Via basic pattern recognition: something interesting enough to read about, but not something I'll be inclined to take part in.

 

[Lobstris]

I'm hoping the announcement is that 1.4 will have lots of mission content, crews and AI hiring/comms - but that's probably not sexy enough. So I'm plumping for the remaining ships being added, with walking round ships coming as a cheap expansion near Xmas. Ah, idle speculation on the internet... bliss!

Hmmmm. We know planetary landings will be a paid expansion, but it was also said that they would come in gradually, with landing on rocky, sparsely populated, airless worlds probably coming before terrestrial worlds get some lovin'. Wonder how you reconcile those two? Likewise, walking around ships is one thing, but outposts and stations are far larger, so I wouldn't be surprised if that came in stages too.