Figuring it out is brilliant I agree. Sitting there and using it on players makes him the worst kind of jerk though. He's a griefer no matter how loose your definition of griefing.
Griefer at Altair, Solo Orbiter station, INSIDE the station griefing...
- Thread starter Cmdr_Arri
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Figuring it out is brilliant I agree. Sitting there and using it on players makes him the worst kind of jerk though. He's a griefer no matter how loose your definition of griefing.
Of course he is, this behavior is precise definition of griefing. However, I never blame players for using exploits, I blame developers for leaving them in the game.
Now you are being silly. Any complicated system can be rorted, and the developers should be judged for how they fix the rort, not whether the rort was possible in the first place. Developers aren't omniscient and you yourself said that this exploit is quite brilliant.
The measure of a developer is not if they've left in an exploit but how they respond to it once found.
When I made a ticket about it in exploit category my ticket got closed with the following message.
However later we got this:
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While it's brilliant, it's not complicated, and it's kind of obvious. If a player could think of it, so could the designer.
It takes a combination of really bad design decisions or oversights for this to happen:
1. You can dock while being wanted if you ask permission before you get wanted.
2. Hits from point defense count as offense
3. Any damage, however small, makes you wanted.
Regardless of existence of this exploit, none of the above should be true.
For me it's clearly a sign of inexcusable lack of testing and poor game design.
In one of the other threads about this MB has stated that it is a problem and they are looking into ways of solving it.
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I and many others spent months testing the game, it's only when the wallies arrive that things like this crop up.
Which is funny because some of the guys from my corp discovered this "exploit" back in beta 2 while trying to torpedo an anaconda's cargo hatch.
I wouldn't say that but this would appear to be a rare situation where someone was actually griefing for real. Its quite inventive I'll give it that.
Can't be obvious, simple and brilliant all at the same time. If it were that obvious it wouldn't have taken until now for someone to think of it. Professional smart people have been playing this game for months.
You're also conflating design and development. The designers aren't necessarily at fault, and neither are the developers who implemented the design. There are a bunch of places these issues could have come from.
Besides point defense doing damage to stuff other than missiles is pretty cool when you think about it. Smacks of good design rather than poor for mine.
Any damage making you wanted in a universe where loitering over the wrong docking pad gets you exterminated also makes total sense. The only real issue is being able to complete docking after becoming wanted, and that's real easy to miss, and even then that's only a problem in combination with two other things, neither of which were probably the domain of a single coder.
Well, this issue proves a few points though.
There ARE griefers determined to disrupt other peoples playing experiences, and they are here, despite of what the 'come to open play, we got cookies' people want to make you believe.
Friendly Fire mechanics SO need to be worked on. Getting wanted cause your point defense turret nicks a station? Yeah. Right.
Station and NPC AI (in stations) need to be worked on. The things you see happening in a station when you just sit there and watch whats going on for a few hours is...hilarious.
FD are not the quickest when it comes to protecting people from Griefers.
There ARE griefers determined to disrupt other peoples playing experiences, and they are here, despite of what the 'come to open play, we got cookies' people want to make you believe.
Friendly Fire mechanics SO need to be worked on. Getting wanted cause your point defense turret nicks a station? Yeah. Right.
Station and NPC AI (in stations) need to be worked on. The things you see happening in a station when you just sit there and watch whats going on for a few hours is...hilarious.
FD are not the quickest when it comes to protecting people from Griefers.
A game designer should clearly state how mechanics should work, including border cases like this one. If I was a programmer who was implementing this code and weren't told how this should work, I would go to the designer and ask, because programmers shouldn't make those decisions.
People have discovered it months before, as stated above.
It's normal that bullets fired by point defense do damage, it's bad design that they cause bounties.
No, that's not easy to miss, this question would pop up in any programmer's head when asked to implement the mechanic.
And no, any damage making you wanted does not make any sense, makes game more exploitable and generally makes it less enjoyable and more annoying.
With loitering, you are given time to clear the pad if you touched it by mistake. What you are advocating is kind of design where loitering would get you killed instantly, no 30-second warnings.
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Not an excuse not to try.
Yup, and they are trying. Just because some idiot has found an edge case they didn't detect... it's been reported and they will take the little kids toy away in due course.
There are approximately 1500 times more players than developers. So yes, if a player could think of it then so could a developer, however it is far more likely that a player will think of it first.
The fact is that a company FD's size simply can't produce software of this complexity to the quality level that you apparently desire for the price you paid. A larger developer sometimes can as their marketing power can ensure higher sales volume, but generally you'd need to start paying the sort of prices business software demands to get a more perfect game (though business software is often just as buggy).
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If you're a programmer with several years experience, then I want to work where you work. It sounds wonderful. This game was developed very quickly on a very small budget, and like it or not the real world has a notable effect on theory/ideals.
I can't see where it's stated this was discovered months ago....just see a link to a two day old thread. Help me out with a link? If it was ticketed way back when then it should have been fixed by now no question.
I'm impressed that you think every programmer would have thought of it. Once again I want to work where you work as you've clearly never worked with anything but the best of the best.
You're basically right, and it's easy to tell programmers from non-programmers, just by reading some of the replies in this thread.
It's entirely possible that the string of events leading up to this little trick could have been programmed by entirely different people. Docking mechanic by one guy, wanted mechanic by another, PDS behaviour by a third, and station aggression by another. Depending on CVS setup and coding methodologies used at Frontier, there may not have even been a way for each of those different programmers to see what one another was doing.
This is just one of those incidents you find by using targeted playtesting (Try to make this happen under these circumstances). Targeted playtesting costs bucks, as it's a boring, monotonous, un-fun job.
On the flip side though, I consider it sort of an obligation to report bugs like this, if you're going out of your way to find them. Figure out how to do it, test it live, then report it to the devs for fixing...you don't just continue to abuse it for lolz.
Not really, it popped first to my mind of things to avoid when playing in open, right next to ships sitting outside no fire zone at stations and a lot of other things i will not talk about here to not give people ideas.
ED is designed very poorly for an mmo, and you will have a lot of fun for the next years while goon squats make sure ED players love the solo option.