Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Well I think that if we're going to talk about adding a PvE mode 6 years after the game's initial inception (how many developers have successfully made such a change to their game modes this far down the line?- genuine question) I'm going to throw a request for the Cobra MK4 on PS4 into the ring because I imagine one is as likely as the other.

Last year we had a load of QoL updates, a change to the commodity market to make things clearer, a new starter area to stop new player ganking, amongst other things. Now with fleet carriers and later on with new era we're back on new content. With no suggestion from Frontier that they are even interested in making a PvE mode I suppose we could add whatever idea we want in there.

Not that this thread isn't entertaining to read with my morning coffee at work.
 

Masta Squidge

M
Attack Chimp said:
I simply can't believe that every time you went into open you were "grieved". Perhaps you're using hyperbole to make your point, yet still being "grieved" half the time you hit open is hard to believe.
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I realize this comment was made months ago, however:

100% of the time I have undocked in open and attempted to play, I have been ganked. This is largely because I exclusively live in the bubble and operate in what would otherwise be populated systems for sheer convenience. Every single time I am attempting to make that jump to open to play that way instead. Every time I get driven back. I have attempted this about half a dozen times, so the sample size is small but the anecdotal evidence is high and the experience is poor.

Yes this is... pretty much my own fault.

The only time I haven't been ganked in open was when mode switching.
I have been ganked in Mobius PVE even. More than once actually.

But the problem isn't the ganking.

The problem is the incredible lack of options for players who want to avoid these players and the complete lack of incentive to participate.

"But Squidge there's plenty of ways to escape!"

No. There's exactly one way to escape, and if the system you are in happens to be your final destination then you get to rinse and repeat ad nauseam because you still have to fly the same path between the star and your port.
The alternative is to be combat fit, skilled, and lucky enough to be caught by someone not in a wing - which basically throws half the game out the window. This is not an enjoyable experience for a lot of players.

The worst part is there's not even any way to avoid the interdiction in the first place.

Stealth? LOL
Block list? Even I will admit that's a really weak cop out for a fundamentally garbage pvp interaction.

I enjoyed blockade running and stealth gameplay, including PVP, in EvE greatly. None of that fun to be had here.


Deejayeff145 said:
Well I think that if we're going to talk about adding a PvE mode 6 years after the game's initial inception (how many developers have successfully made such a change to their game modes this far down the line?- genuine question)
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I would play an actual hard limited PVE/Open mode exclusively.

No reason to subject myself to unwanted PVP whatsoever given the current state of the game. No benefits. Very little fun. Nothing to prove.

Either that or fundamentally redesign the pvp interactions to actually provide positive and engaging gameplay, plus reward, for the victim.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Masta Squidge said:
I would play an actual hard limited PVE/Open mode exclusively.

No reason to subject myself to unwanted PVP whatsoever given the current state of the game. No benefits. Very little fun. Nothing to prove.

Either that or fundamentally redesign the pvp interactions to actually provide positive and engaging gameplay, plus reward, for the victim.
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I would fly a Cobra MK4 exclusively.

No reason to subject myself to unwanted small ships whatsoever given the current state of the game. No benefits. Very little fun. Nothing to prove.

Either that or fundamentally redesign the Cobra mk3 to actually provide positive and engaging gameplay, plus reward, for PS4 players.
 

Masta Squidge

M
Deejayeff145 said:
I would fly a Cobra MK4 exclusively.

No reason to subject myself to unwanted small ships whatsoever given the current state of the game. No benefits. Very little fun. Nothing to prove.

Either that or fundamentally redesign the Cobra mk3 to actually provide positive and engaging gameplay, plus reward, for PS4 players.
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Your point is noted and discarded as utterly irrelevant to the problem being discussed.


The simple fact of the matter is that there is zero benefit nor reward for participating in non-consensual PVP.
 

galahad2069

G
Masta Squidge said:
So edgy. Very tough guy.
This has been billed as a single player game with optional PVP and "online enabled content" since day one. You are in the wrong neighborhood if you think that people not enjoying wasting their time on meaningless and purely unprofitable "pvp" is somehow a problem.
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You are beating a dead horse.

Play in solo, there is your single player game (PvP is only "optional" because you have to choose a different mode to be able to do it).

Open is not a single player game, and it has never been advertised as such (PvP has never been entirely "optional" in Open, it's just very easy to avoid).

Edit: And yes, whining because someone shot a pixel spaceship down is pathetic. I might have used even stronger words, but luckily I'm not a native speaker of English.
 
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Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
The existence of certain moons suggests a mode where all potential forms of pvp could be disabled would be doable, but it might break an awful lot of things, since you'd need a way to basically turn off all object interaction for ships any time they are interacting with other ships, or anything which can be influenced by them. Playing the game in a permanent noclip mode could present a bunch of its own problems, and sure, might introduce its own kinds of griefing, like clipping your ship into someone else's cockpit as they try to land, etc. (Though it would be nice not to have the possibility of accidental death that I once experienced dropping into a ring, when my ship materialised INSIDE an asteroid, like the Pegasus, Riker's old ship on TNG, instantly killing me), it would also mean needing to toggle a lot of stuff to still be able to interact, so that cargo scoops still work, etc. Overall though, it's a LOT of work to add a mode which would have several detractions from the immersion, which could be avoided just by playing in a PG.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Masta Squidge said:
Your point is noted and discarded as utterly irrelevant to the problem being discussed.


The simple fact of the matter is that there is zero benefit nor reward for participating in non-consensual PVP.
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As is yours as you completely refused to engage with any point I made in the post you replied to.

Both things have the same chance of happening since neither have been announced as planned future updates and you discarding one argument is perfect reason to discard the other.

Going back to the OP, the actual thread topic is banning players who repeatedly kill other players.
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
Deejayeff145 said:
Going back to the OP, the actual thread topic is banning players who repeatedly kill other players.
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The problem with that will always be the same problem many games face. Those people just buy more accounts. Rockstar don't care that GTA cheaters keep buying new accounts for their 4 hour mayhem sprees, it's more money in the bank for them, so it's preferable to implementing any kind of permanent solution.
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Pair lacking on the part of
Ziggy Stardust said:
Look ma! I play game in open! I has a pair! I are tough guy.

You guys are adorable :)
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Pair lacking on the part of combat oriented pilots is an issue with long history in ED.

This happened:

  • Game in beta/gamma. Players complain that they actually take damage in combat and bounty hunting isn't a viable career. FD adds SCBs.
  • Game released. FD adds a very high repair cost on hull damage. Players complain that bounty hunting isn't a viable career. FD removes the high repair cost and adds shield boosters.
  • Time passes and player complain that hull tanks aren't viable in combat. FD adds module and hull reinforcements. Every compartment and utility slot can now be filled with defensive hit points.
  • Engineers released. All the modules and utilities can now be buffed a lot. All buffs stacks. Ship can get infinite defensive hit points, but evil FD adds heat to compensate. Players hate heat and FD removes it.
Engineers also adds super weapons to ensure that at least those with extreme will to do it, can get trough a 1 vs 1 before bedtime.

Current status i that player combat ships does not fit in the game. They don't match up with NPCs or players that chose to use their module slots for other stuff.

Players that have a pair can of course avoid all the silly power ups and play a balanced game in Solo or they can just risk(not a very big risk) it in open.
It's rarely these guys that complain that open is empty though.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Sunyavadin said:
The problem with that will always be the same problem many games face. Those people just buy more accounts. Rockstar don't care that GTA cheaters keep buying new accounts for their 4 hour mayhem sprees, it's more money in the bank for them, so it's preferable to implementing any kind of permanent solution.
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The main difference of course being that the ganker in ED has done nothing to breach the ToS (I'm not suggesting you were making that comparison though, I'm just highlighting the point). But you are correct with the lack of a permanent solution. ED is making money, Frontier aren't about to change their path on the basics of the game as a result.

Honestly though. I'm a big fan of the lore in this game and what I don't personally like about gankers in Deciat and Shin Dez is that it's not consistent be with how the game should be. It doesn't make sense to me that high and medium security systems should be ganking hotspots. However, they are and the only solution in place right now is what has been suggested about putting defences on your ship etc. I say this as an outlaw player who would also enjoy the challenge of a competent system security.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Masta Squidge said:
So edgy. Very tough guy.
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I was a little harsh on these guys.

You know, some people get their self worth out of how they treat people, their achievements and accomplishments in live. And then others get their self worth out of playing a game in a certain way. Now it's very easy to ridicule the latter group of people, perhaps use strong verbiage like "pathetic", but I realise that is judging them by my standards.

I should be more supportive when other people feel it's a test of character to play games a certain way. I should be understanding when they project that onto other people. But it's not easy to do with a straight face, but that doesn't mean I should not try.

Ahem

So, you play in Open eh? Well done indeed! That takes balls. I salute you!
Han_Zen said:
Players that have a pair can of course avoid all the silly power ups and play a balanced game in Solo or they can just risk(not a very big risk) it in open.
It's rarely these guys that complain that open is empty though.
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My girlfriend has my pair in custody.

I'll ask her if I need the power ups.
 

Cheese Helmet

Cheese Helmet
Masta Squidge said:
So edgy. Very tough guy.
This has been billed as a single player game with optional PVP and "online enabled content" since day one. You are in the wrong neighborhood if you think that people not enjoying wasting their time on meaningless and purely unprofitable "pvp" is somehow a problem.
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It’s advertised as something but it ain’t single player
87466323-69AC-4F40-B109-5975E17613BB.png
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
Deejayeff145 said:
Honestly though. I'm a big fan of the lore in this game and what I don't personally like about gankers in Deciat and Shin Dez is that it's not consistent be with how the game should be. It doesn't make sense to me that high and medium security systems should be ganking hotspots. However, they are and the only solution in place right now is what has been suggested about putting defences on your ship etc. I say this as an outlaw player who would also enjoy the challenge of a competent system security.
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It's honestly one area where I probably wouldn't mind seeing the AI cheat, but the trouble then is that as you ramp up the challenge it just acts as encouragement for players to test themselves against the unstoppable system security. I've seen MMOs with invulnerable NPC guards in cities, where players in ridiculous builds would challenge them to see how long they could hold out tanking their onslaught.
 
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