Guard AI is still terrible

[bangermsuk]

i been hiding on many inaccessable towers,rooftops the guards usally reacted quite well with a few emp grenades and a frag grenade afterwards (usallay dead center of me) .i even had a sentry skimmer follow me around rooftop a shoot the living daylights out of my new pre-1999 space dominator suit .
once i had a guard call up to me why on inaccessable roof:

​

hey commander,we don't get many new faces around here? LOL. then obivious seen my sniper rifle poking out.my mistake i should of stuffed it further down me trousers leg then proceeded to continue walking on then called red alert for the team.​

 

[Guyperson]

The AI can't behave too realistically given that this is a game and a medium with a lot of limitations. Plus if they're too nosy and suspicious while you're trying to be discreet you disincentivize taking any approach that isn't mass murder.

 

[insanephoton]

Dumb guards is something of a gaming trope, but if you're quick on the draw you can stop people raising the alarm.
Anyway I'll just leave this for you to enjoy.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZEVioGqyAg

 

[photomankc]

Yes, it really breaks my immersion when my fully armed and operational battlest combat ship lands in front of everyone and they just keep walking around with their flashlights. And they walk past a shutting down reactor, a disabled alarm panel and jammed open by overload airlocks/doors.

Ideally the ship and ground parts need to be part of a holistic mission.

e.g. You use your ships to zap the orbiting fighters, take out the ground heavy AA, maybe rain missiles on the soldiers in the open but need to land and mop up the bunkers on foot.

I would also like to see the alarm disable being a hack of some kind behind a cut panel not a touch panel that nobody on base can appear to press "enable" on. Maybe even have it going down brings the nearest 2 or 3 guards to investigate and perhaps attempt to repair and puts the rest on heightened alert.

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

I would also like to see the alarm disable being a hack of some kind behind a cut panel not a touch panel that nobody on base can appear to press "enable" on. Maybe even have it going down brings the nearest 2 or 3 guards to investigate and perhaps attempt to repair and puts the rest on heightened alert.

Yes, it should be a hack where the panel says enabled, but it isnt.

 

[Screemonster]

I would also like to see the alarm disable being a hack of some kind behind a cut panel not a touch panel that nobody on base can appear to press "enable" on. Maybe even have it going down brings the nearest 2 or 3 guards to investigate and perhaps attempt to repair and puts the rest on heightened alert.

something you have to e-breach or cut some wires in order to permanently disable would be good.

Then again I'd love to see cuttable panels on the settlement defences to disable them too.

Something like that giant dish you see on CMD buildings? Have a panel on that you can slice open to cut comms to the settlement - sure, it raises the local alarm because it detects tampering but prevents them from getting a signal out, so while the guards already on the base are alerted it stops that alarm calling for reinforcements.
Easier to get at from outside, sure, but it's far from covert.

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

something you have to e-breach or cut some wires in order to permanently disable would be good.

Then again I'd love to see cuttable panels on the settlement defences to disable them too.

Something like that giant dish you see on CMD buildings? Have a panel on that you can slice open to cut comms to the settlement - sure, it raises the local alarm because it detects tampering but prevents them from getting a signal out, so while the guards already on the base are alerted it stops that alarm calling for reinforcements.
Easier to get at from outside, sure, but it's far from covert.

Well, if we want to talk realism, we should be able to 'Opps my Corvette brushed that big dish while I was parking, how clumsy of me!'.

 

[Sapient6]

Well .. can't have those cosmetics affecting gameplay now can we? CERTAINLY not negatively!!!!!! People pay good fake money for those.

Herpa derpa cosmetics don't affect game development, "it's only cosmetic, so it's fine and I support the devs! Ner!"

Sorry.... It is a pet peeve of mine.

Now I'm laughing because I imagine an AI that just hates cowboy hats. Doesn't mind about anything else, hardly notices corpses, but cowboy hats SET HIM OFF.

 

[Drelthar]

Now I'm laughing because I imagine an AI that just hates cowboy hats. Doesn't mind about anything else, hardly notices corpses, but cowboy hats SET HIM OFF.

Hahah.

It would be cooler though if, these suits were special versions of suits you get for doing specific things in game, like working for the dredger crew on a heist of a megaship, and the suit gives you extra storage space, higher chance of scavenging better loot, and extra melee damage from the spiky bits, downside is, you are viewed as hostile anywhere but anarchies, as a random example.

Instead of... Pay money, look like freak, affects nothing

 

[lysan]

Yeah, it's realism vs gameplay balancing. Someone will always be unhappy, one way or another

I'd love for the guards to react in a more realistic way, but not to the point that it makes fun (subjective) and creative gameplay punishable (by death).

UNLESS we'd have in-game tools to mitigate that (maintenance worker disguise suit, first thing that came to mind). But that's A LOT of additional work on all levels, from design, production, coding to implementation.

Do we need it to be Elite Dangerous Odyssey Hitman Edition?

No however we got assassin missions, so we need assassin mechanics, besides that, there is a “sniper” rifle slooow blasma ball and not sniper mechanic, like hold breath etc.

When it comes to the NPC behavior it’s very basic, let that assassin creed origins as an example, the guards remove the dead, they do the nature thing, they sleep, they eat, they do a lot of things so you as a player can accomplish your mission in many different ways.

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

No however we got assassin missions, so we need assassin mechanics, besides that, there is a “sniper” rifle slooow blasma ball and not sniper mechanic, like hold breath etc.

When it comes to the NPC behavior it’s very basic, let that assassin creed origins as an example, the guards remove the dead, they do the nature thing, they sleep, they eat, they do a lot of things so you as a player can accomplish your mission in many different ways.

Yes, the lack of a schedule thingy irks me a bit.

I mean Ultima V back in 1988 already had the NPCs go back to their bunk at night.

Wouldnt it be fun to sneak in and zap a sleeping NPC?

As for the sniper rifle.... yeah, use a slow moving glowing purple ball instead of a fast projectile or railgun thingy.

 

[Commander Kheane]

/resurrect because I need to vent and this is STILL happening...

Just blew a mission and lost like 2-3million in bad guy on foot bounties because I was doing back to back settlement raids in anarchy space. Stupid guard tell me to hold on and brings up his scanner while I'm on the roof. I jump back down and OH NO that counts as running away and I get shot at and yay the alarms are blaring. This is a military settlement too so the goliath came to say hello. I tuck myself into a corner and take out the backup but I get overrun and FISSION MAILED.

...if it was such that in military settlements you were automatically flagged as hostile I would be so cool with that. But come on, I thought this was fixed in update 5

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

/resurrect because I need to vent and this is STILL happening...

Just blew a mission and lost like 2-3million in bad guy on foot bounties because I was doing back to back settlement raids in anarchy space. Stupid guard tell me to hold on and brings up his scanner while I'm on the roof. I jump back down and OH NO that counts as running away and I get shot at and yay the alarms are blaring. This is a military settlement too so the goliath came to say hello. I tuck myself into a corner and take out the backup but I get overrun and FISSION MAILED.

...if it was such that in military settlements you were automatically flagged as hostile I would be so cool with that. But come on, I thought this was fixed in update 5

I found that unless you are equipped to slug it out with your upgraded gear, its better to just hit sprint and zig zag your way out when the guards are all converging. The NPCs dont aim too well when you sprint in a not-totally straight line.

 

[insanephoton]

I had a funny interaction a couple of days ago. Can't remember if it was a massacre mission or not, but it was in an anarchy. I had just silently killed a guard when another one started to approach. So I ran and hid a short way away. The second guard spots the corpse and reacts, shields raised, weapon drawn and starts searching. I let him find me. Since I didn't have a weapon drawn, any bounties against me or any other contraband, I was happy to let him scan me. He says something about hoping I had nothing to do with it and stalks off. Of course he didn't live long after he had dropped his shields, the last thing that went through his head was a silenced plasma pistol bolt.

Hiding on roofs works as long as they can't see you. They might throw grenades at you last known position but after a while without spotting you they decide that you must have gone away.

 

[Screemonster]

/resurrect because I need to vent and this is STILL happening...

Just blew a mission and lost like 2-3million in bad guy on foot bounties because I was doing back to back settlement raids in anarchy space. Stupid guard tell me to hold on and brings up his scanner while I'm on the roof. I jump back down and OH NO that counts as running away and I get shot at and yay the alarms are blaring. This is a military settlement too so the goliath came to say hello. I tuck myself into a corner and take out the backup but I get overrun and FISSION MAILED.

...if it was such that in military settlements you were automatically flagged as hostile I would be so cool with that. But come on, I thought this was fixed in update 5

honestly this sounds a bit "i ded pls nerf"

You were raiding a military base and got spotted? Yeah, be ready for a fight.
I had one of those where they got tipped off, landed nearby and took the SRV in and dismissed my ship without the goliath or air patrol aggroing. Sniped a few guards with a silencer. Got spotted from a window when I was jumping down off the CMD building, and the alarm went off.
Plan B. Ebreached the front door. Bumrushed the security room. The L3 guy in there came out. Bam. Grab his access. Alarms off. Keep moving. Pop the guards as they come. Stay on the move. Security was split over 2 levels, which let me loop around and catch the next bunch of guards in the back. Clear the building. Kill the power.
The big hassle getting out of there wasn't the goliath, it was the patrolling ships. The goliath actually helped once I'd got rid of the alarms and it lost aggro, because the patrolling ships violated the no-fire zone shooting at my SRV, which meant they had to cope with it lobbing seekers at them once I hopped out of the SRV again.

 

[Ydiss]

honestly this sounds a bit "i ded pls nerf"

You were raiding a military base and got spotted? Yeah, be ready for a fight.
I had one of those where they got tipped off, landed nearby and took the SRV in and dismissed my ship without the goliath or air patrol aggroing. Sniped a few guards with a silencer. Got spotted from a window when I was jumping down off the CMD building, and the alarm went off.
Plan B. Ebreached the front door. Bumrushed the security room. The L3 guy in there came out. Bam. Grab his access. Alarms off. Keep moving. Pop the guards as they come. Stay on the move. Security was split over 2 levels, which let me loop around and catch the next bunch of guards in the back. Clear the building. Kill the power.
The big hassle getting out of there wasn't the goliath, it was the patrolling ships. The goliath actually helped once I'd got rid of the alarms and it lost aggro, because the patrolling ships violated the no-fire zone shooting at my SRV, which meant they had to cope with it lobbing seekers at them once I hopped out of the SRV again.

I think he's more bothered by the way he got attacked due to non-compliance when he was trying to comply.

It has to be said that the current AI algorithm for scan demands is susceptable to failure in a few scenarios and could use enhancing. In the scenario above, the scan would have resulted in no issues at all and it shouldn't be so easy to trigger a fail on this process. There are times when it's the players' fault (rushing about and not paying attention) and I'm relunctant to give them any credence but even with those scenarios there could be a warning that gives you a countdown timer to return to the scanning range.

The main issue is how the guards must be stood in a specific spot to scan you. I think this is pointless. We can scan each other up to about 20-30m away. The guards should just start scanning you, not do the whole "easy to break" system of trying to move into a spot that's 2m in front of the player, which will always be prone to failure.

 

[Factabulous]

The main issue is how the guards must be stood in a specific spot to scan you. I think this is pointless. We can scan each other up to about 20-30m away. The guards should just start scanning you, not do the whole "easy to break" system of trying to move into a spot that's 2m in front of the player, which will always be prone to failure.

I have had a few recently where they scanned me from much further away (or so it seemed to me). Not sure how I got them to do that, but it was much better. I need to take a pic next time it happens, it might just have been them failing to find a path to me.

 

[Screemonster]

I have had a few recently where they scanned me from much further away (or so it seemed to me). Not sure how I got them to do that, but it was much better. I need to take a pic next time it happens, it might just have been them failing to find a path to me.

yeah, they spot you from within scanning range so if they're unable to path to you they should just scan you then and there

 

[Northpin]

Honestly, if you're in an area that a guard can't get to like a rooftop and they spot you, they should probably yell something like "oi you, get down from there" 'cause honestly there's no good reason for someone who doesn't work there to be lurking on a rooftop.

Just drop down in front of her? If you walk within their range they just scan you. Never had any issue with it.

basically this

/resurrect because I need to vent and this is STILL happening...

Just blew a mission and lost like 2-3million in bad guy on foot bounties because I was doing back to back settlement raids in anarchy space. Stupid guard tell me to hold on and brings up his scanner while I'm on the roof. I jump back down and OH NO that counts as running away and I get shot at and yay the alarms are blaring. This is a military settlement too so the goliath came to say hello. I tuck myself into a corner and take out the backup but I get overrun and FISSION MAILED.

...if it was such that in military settlements you were automatically flagged as hostile I would be so cool with that. But come on, I thought this was fixed in update 5

happened to be flagged for scanning in several occasions while i was on the roof.
i immediately jumped down near the guard and got scanned and all was good - sure, i had to quickly remove my stolen id (me smart - already had the button bound) and had to get it back after, but no issues otherwise

 

[syngyne]

Just drop down in front of her? If you walk within their range they just scan you. Never had any issue with it.

I have had a guard start shooting at me because they yelled at me while I was in mid-air on a low-g planet and didn’t land fast enough for them.