Guilds in Elite Dangerous

[Aewarin Jameson]

You want it brimming with potential prey...

You 'as me all wrong guv'na ...

 

[Cody]

From the backstory angle, I wonder if the main powers would tolerate guilds operating in their space?

 

[Cosmos]

This comment sums it up nicely.

I played WoW for years, a monthly fee game, as it was hard to leave and say goodbye to people.

The throwback of "oh, it's Elite" isn't enough for todays generation as they don't know what that was .. We did, that's why we pledged, but there's only 30K of us and I so want a server brimming with life that FD have to expand!

Indeed. As we all sit here in the pbf we'll have had the chance to make friends (or enemies ) so from the get go a portion of this community will be okay and have people to play with. Also , the demographic (mostly 30+) for this game is a bit skewed at the moment because many of the backers are original Elite players.

We have to consider that younger gamers will have grown up expecting certain things as standard and that includes community support functionality. As newer players arrive in game, perhaps after beta, I'd hate to see them not be able to fully enjoy the game because becoming part of a group or community wasn't easy to achieve.

edit: there are also lots of people who play online games that don't visit the forums.

 

[jabokai]

I'd like to see support for guilds in the sense of mechanisms to allow the creation, and maintenance of them... but I really can't stand the thought of people then crying for guild endgame content!

So, I will admit that, somewhat selfishly, I'm not really opposed to the current plans on a personal level even though I do feel, on a more dispassionate level, that there should be something to help people organise into social units.

Just. No. "Endgame". Raids.

 

[Greeboski]

A key element to online gaming and why people often continue playing is group play and supporting the friends they make in a game.

to me this screams that they need to play decent games (not that many get made these days imho) where the point of being there is the game. oh and possibly meet real people

By not providing strong ways for multiple people to organise and form their own particular community within the game we risk people dropping out because its too hard to make friends and be part of a fun group. It also makes it much much harder to find new friends and stay connected as a group.

as i am sure you know friendships require work , not just clicking the 'apply to this guild' button. but then why limit who you are likely to actualy make an effort with into the subset of your guild?
this makes absolutly no sence to me , you might as well say 'i am only frends with co-workers because....'

This area of the game might seem like a nice thing to have but its far more important that most people think.

to me guilds seems like a very bad thing to have.
in most games 80%+ guilds only have 1-4 members anyway , accounting for over 50% of the total guild memberships
guilds would mould the in game dynamics for play style , which would be away form an adventure of discovery especialy with the easy of passing of info.

i know guilds are usefull and have their place in most online games , i just cant see how there could be benifit from them in ED.
replace them with a local voice radio (possibly with 'dial-a-friend') tho . . . (sadly i think this idea had been veto'd already)

 

[Cosmos]

as i am sure you know friendships require work , not just clicking the 'apply to this guild' button.

to me guilds seems like a very bad thing to have.
in most games 80%+ guilds only have 1-4 members anyway , accounting for over 50% of the total guild memberships
guilds would mould the in game dynamics for play style , which would be away form an adventure of discovery especialy with the easy of passing of info.

i know guilds are usefull and have their place in most online games , i just cant see how there could be benifit from them in ED.

The key point is you don't have to join one. Your right about friendships but being in a guild offers opportunity to play with people and then form friendships if you like one another. Finding a great group of people to enjoy a game with is not a trivial exercise - it takes time and effort and along the way we can meet some annoying people.

I've played in numerous guilds over the years. None had only four members. I've been in a guild with hundreds of players ( was pretty bad tbh) and a smaller guild of about 15 people - and that was one of the best guilds ever - even raiding became heaps of fun.

That all said if you find yourself a part of something like more dots...(warning strong language). leave for your own sanity.

 

[Greeboski]

That all said if you find yourself a part of something like more dots...(warning strong language). leave for your own sanity.

i think if i found myself in a guild like that it would be too late for our sanity already lol

only been in one under 4 player guild myself , that was for my nephews enjoyment mostly, on DDO. my point there is more to do with the clutter of all the small guilds and that even when they exist the majority of accounts (another story , lets hope we can read people) are not in one with 5 or more players.

as far as not joining one is concerned i think we all know PuG's are like the proverbial box of chockies (mostly with the nice ones pre-eaten) hence a necesaty to join a guild in many games. and yes i can see that for harder missions in ED guilds would make it easyer to find compedant players , alternativly trust ED's ranking systems as a way to identify potential assistance .

 

[Wulf]

Plenty of 3rd party software to help people to come together to make guild like groups.

Don't think Frontier will bother including guild chat since it would need a central server, which really doesn't fit in the P2P model.

 

[Cosmos]

Plenty of 3rd party software to help people to come together to make guild like groups.

Don't think Frontier will bother including guild chat since it would need a central server, which really doesn't fit in the P2P model.

3rd party software is not a solution - most people wont bother if its outside the game. Functionality should be provided via the game. I can't stress enough that this sort of thing makes a big difference and could help foster a more enjoyable experience for all.

There is a central server but p2p is for multi-player efficiency.

 

[Associat0r]

Isn't the alliance thing a guild system?

What is all this fuss about? Isn't the alliance thing mentioned in the Groups proposal together with the Communication proposal a guild system?

In addition to the groups presented above a player can be a part of an Alliance with other players. This is a separate entity that operates within the boundaries of whatever group the players are in:

• A player can only ever be in a single alliance at a time
• Alliances allow players to indicate trust between themselves so they:
  • Can freely jettison and pick up cargo between themselves
  • Can fire upon each other without criminal implications
  • Gain the same criminal fine/bounty if one or more other members commits a crime
    • This only occurs if the player is in the same vicinity as the player committing the crime
  • Have the ability to slave hyperdrive systems together to make travel easier
  • Get matched as a whole during slaved hyperspace travel and if not possible spawn in their own instance at a location rather than splitting the alliance up
• Alliances in the all players group allow those in the alliance to come across other human players as normal except the game is explicitly trying to keep the alliance together when they arrive at the same location through match-making
  • This is in addition to the normal preference system and operates by giving a much higher weighting to alliance members when determining preferences over friends for example
• Alliances in a private group would only meet other players in that private group
  • Depending on the size of the group, players may typically be in an alliance with everyone else in the private group but multiple alliances can exist in a larger private group if desired
• Creating an alliance is handled exactly the same way as creating a private group with the caveat that anyone in the group can invite other players (including non-friend players) into the alliance and no one is the leader
  • In the all players group any player can be invited into the alliance by any alliance member
  • In a private group only the players in the private group can be invited into an alliance by alliance members
  • Players can vote to kick an alliance member out of the alliance
    • After a set time limit the vote is closed and the majority is taken to decide the outcome unless all members have already voted or the required number of votes is reached
  • Players can leave freely of their own accord
• Any criminal status or reputation earned as a consequence of other alliance members behaviour is kept after leaving an alliance

Player to Player

• Players can lock onto and hail any other player’s ship that is not ignoring them
• Players can also select players from their friends list to open up direct communications with
• Players can accept or decline communications
• They have three ways of communicating:
  • They can choose to type messages to each other freely
  • Voice chat
  • Preconfigured messages
    • These will cover all common interactions between players like asking for assistance, offering trade and declaring piracy
    • These will allow players to carry out deals and agreements quickly and easily by picking presets
    • New preset options will arise from having higher reputation values in certain areas

 

[Associat0r]

My experience with the half dozen guilds of which I've been a member in the various games I've played have been very positive. They have all been oriented towards increasing the chance that you'll find a friend the share your online time, organizing raiding parties to complete difficult quests that cannot possibly be undertaken by a solo player, giving help and assistance to new guild members, etc.

You will be able to hire wingmen (Player or NPC) for this, this way it's all seamlessly integrated within the gameplay.
Just wait for the wingmen DDF proposal this or next week.

 

[Caribou]

What is all this fuss about? Isn't the alliance thing mentioned in the Groups proposal together with the Communication proposal a guild system?

no... not close even...

 

[Associat0r]

Where is it stated that Alliances are temporary?

This Game and its grouping system doesn't really facilitate cooperation directly. You need to ask strangers for help in the All group or enter into TEMPORARY groups (Alliances) which cease to exist the moment the last player leaves the game. All fine if everyone is friendly...

Where is it stated that Alliances are temporary?

 

[Susimetsa]

Where is it stated that Alliances are temporary?

It is pretty unclear, as the document compares alliances to groups and groups are specifically said to be temporary.

 

[Associat0r]

It is pretty unclear, as the document compares alliances to groups and groups are specifically said to be temporary.

Nowhere in the groups proposal are alliances compared to groups, they are a separate entity that operate within the boundaries of whatever group the players are in, so if you have an alliance in the All Group, nothing implies that that alliance would be temporary.

And if you mean if you mean this:

Upon disconnecting, logging off or leaving the group automatically passes leadership to the oldest private group member, i.e. the first player to accept an invite into the group that is still present

Nowhere does it say that Groups are temporary, for all we know the group might still exist on their server when the last player has logged off.

 

[Susimetsa]

Nowhere does it say that Groups are temporary, for all we know the group might still exist on their server when the last player has logged off.

It is clearly implied by this:

Players can save private group settings including players to invite to allow quick selection and set up of groups

 

[Associat0r]

It is clearly implied by this:

You are right about those groups, but that still doesn't imply how the alliances are saved.

 

[Caribou]

Creating an alliance is handled exactly the same way as creating a private group with the caveat that anyone in the group can invite other players (including non-friend players) into the alliance and no one is the leader

Alliances are not going to be handled differently to groups IMHO...

 

[Capt. Hook]

My two cents is that the proposed system outlined by the Devs seems fine to me. Particularly like the group jump system process and ratings implications of joining/leaving alliance.

I don't want to play an EVE corporation clone thanks (been there, done that).

 

[Susimetsa]

I don't want to play an EVE corporation clone thanks (been there, done that).

There are other reasons for criticizing the alliance/groups system than that (and I don't want to play a corporation clone either).

My reason is simply that I'd like to be able to set up or join an roleplaying group and automatically be part of that same group every time I log in to play. The purpose of this group would be to serve all those who wish to roleplay their commanders and don't want to see non-roleplaying gamers during their journeys. They would not be allied (pirates can roleplay just as much as traders or explorers), nor bound by any other group rules than the request to roleplay as much as possible.

As it is, creating such a group is an impossibility/chore, given that you'd have to recreate / join it every time separately when you wish to play the game.