Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[Ian Skippy]

Would you reply to anything that anyone says on this Forum? The hate and vile toxic crap that spills out of peoples mouths on every single new change being made to the game. Would you really like to talk to someone who calls you a at every possible chance?

I would let us rot as well. Any answer they provide regardless as to what answer they provide, you will still hate it. Dialog happens both ways, but after 20 plus pages of negative crap. Now you have a bunch of self entitled community members calling a game they worked on for the last 5 years as a game that is only suitable for a 12 year old to play. Somehow now "Arcade" has been adopted as another hate word on the forums.

Arcades were something they all grew up with and now you are deeming mine and their fun adolescence years as something terrible. You are also being ageists by stating that a 12 year olds mental development level is so low that anything they enjoy or contribute is less than nothing. (When in all actuality 12 year olds are doing classes in 7th grade that you were doing as a senior in high school or a freshmen in college.)


I wouldnt talk to us either.

Heck, add to that the non-stop bending of dev quotes, and if tgat fails just flat-out stating they dont understand their own game. People arent interested in discussing anything, its just used to mine for ammo for whatever position they have.

If I were a dev I'd look at how succesfull the game is, then look at the sour es here and just flip the bird and go home to their family. Sounds like a way better time investment...

 

[Fishy]

I wouldnt talk to us either.

You seriously underestimate what people can be pushed to do for money. [money]

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well I just watched some youtubes of it all in action.

Must admit that after some laughing, quiet contemplation, and slow-mo flashbacks of developer historical views on 'non cockpit' game play.. I have one simple conclusion.

http://earthguideforaliens.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/puzzled-expression.png

People can try to formulate clever metaphors as to how a 3rd person view could work, or may work, or whatever.. but in reality the resounding answer is this: "third person changes the game to something different and isn't what we want for the game."

No matter how you encase it, ED never was conceptualised as being third person. Even the whole drone thing for an outside view of your ship was thought about and only put in for the huge demand for it.

This whole detached from your ship, magical witchspace view just does not feel or look inline with what ED should be.

This is more like it!

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...-SWBTUC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100519192322

Not having some kind of magical view of your ship from up there...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7_gMFng3...ACL0/x94vbsYn2FE/s400/freeflyer_nasa_big2.jpg

Ah, ED:1950 edition.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Again: just because something doesnt make sense to you, doesnt mean there is no sense. I am sure there are many, many things that dont make sense to you. Reality doesnt particulary care about it, though. Same here. If you really cannot wrap your head around a 3D representation based on sensor data, or the usage of miniature drone cameras that already exist today, then that is something you just have to figure out on your own. Which is exactly what I said: you want 1st person turrets, like with B17 bombers, because anything more advanced 'doesnt make sense' to you. Well, tough luck.

Please read my post again and no that is not what I want.

And as many other 'immersion crowd' people, the understanding of what a game is seems to be rather limited. You are immortal. You get an insurance policy that would bankrupt any company in a day. Upon death, you get insta-beamed physically across the galaxy. Anyone with $20 gets to fly a spaceship: no exams or age restrictions at all. 400t of cargo gets loaded instantly. None of it 'makes sense'. Its a game.

And what have any of those got to do with immersion?

So \yYou are playing a game. On some levels, there are many, many inconsistencies. As with any game. If there werent', you would not be allowed to fly a ship at all and even if you were, you wouldnt like it anymore. In isolation, the 3rd person turret cam makes a lot of sense. Maybe not to you. But thats something else.

What, you are not making sense. When I am talking about inconsistancies, I am talking about the game lore and other mechanics. Not real life.

It looks like you are completely missing the point, or deliberately ignoring it or haven't read my post properly.

I haven't attacked anybody about the fact that they like the way its implemented. I haven't been unpleasent to anyone about it either. I am genuinly happy that some people really like it. That is fine. But to attack people who don't is wrong. There are no ways around it. Why can't people except they others have a difference if opinion and maybe work towards something that would be great for everybody instead of just crapping on people.

Pot, meet kettle.

Where have I attacked anybody for liking this mechanic?

 

[Tarman]

Hell no!!

Carry on making rash judgments and complain that the game is over because of the 3rd person view.

I've got plenty of popcorn to keep going. :O

I'm just saying not all 3rd person views are console like immersion breakers.

Of course not. That's a rational viewpoint. But it's apparently easier for the forum at large to fight about it for 70 pages than for people to judge the feature on its own merits when we can actually use it. Twenty minutes of beta will show any glaring failures or holes because game-players so there's no need for war and despair until maybe at least that time in one potential future.

I was once a staunch supporter of 1PV-only views, and still prefer that for my own main piloting experience. For a gunner station however, just the fact that VR users would need a puke bucket for a flip-switch turret mode puts great weight behind a 3PV for this idea; this game is sold on its VR experience to the point where that experience also sells VR kit. There are also plenty of interesting targeting system concepts that can provide similar input; and has been pointed out, the turrets themselves aren't going to be magically shooting through the ships so that's not any different at all except now it's Chucky on the guns instead of AI Routine #3/Module Undamaged.

I have gravitated more towards a centrist policy for the game in general of giving a carp about other gamestyles that I don't even play but know exist in the game. I try to take a look at each item in turn and what's best for the most players instead of just what's good for only me.

 

[Goose4291]

It happens when you sell your soul to the non-pc crowd who are much younger and are apart of the "If it breathes will can kill it!" mentality. Will soon be no old style games left.

I'd disagree Snowy. Judging from some of the nonsense I see where you can tally it to individuals (such as the facebook community) its individuals aged 35 and up where a lot of this ridiculous attitude comes from.

He was talking about piloting the ship in combat. Which still applies. He is not talking about things like turret cam or vanity cam.

Deal with that as you must, but please dont try to gather support where none is to be had. Just say you disagree with FD, which is totally fine.

But when it comes down to it, the turret cam concept is primarily for a ship in combat (unless there's other uses they've not covered so far), so I can see how some people can see the disconnect between the aforementioned statement and whats being put into practice.

To be honest, I can see why they've gone the route they have (netcode limiting number of crew, a flight engine akin to fighter plane rather than bomber mechanics, and their desire to make everything easy to pick up and play) and it seems like the easiest, safest way to do it (although I am still concermed regarding what 360' lockon missiles will bring to the table, as well as how effective/ineffective silent running will be against it) however I can see why people are a little confused between what has been said by Frontier previously regarding their development ethos vs. what they are actually doing.

Also, didnt say a word about the new vanity cam, which looks awesome for film maket types. Im expecting Elite Machina to be on par with the ArmA communities in due course.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Would you reply to anything that anyone says on this Forum? The hate and vile toxic crap that spills out of peoples mouths on every single new change being made to the game. Would you really like to talk to someone who calls you a at every possible chance?

I would let us rot as well. Any answer they provide regardless as to what answer they provide, you will still hate it. Dialog happens both ways, but after 20 plus pages of negative crap. Now you have a bunch of self entitled community members calling a game they worked on for the last 5 years as a game that is only suitable for a 12 year old to play. Somehow now "Arcade" has been adopted as another hate word on the forums.

Arcades were something they all grew up with and now you are deeming mine and their fun adolescence years as something terrible. You are also being ageists by stating that a 12 year olds mental development level is so low that anything they enjoy or contribute is less than nothing. (When in all actuality 12 year olds are doing classes in 7th grade that you were doing as a senior in high school or a freshmen in college.)


I wouldnt talk to us either.

- - - Updated - - -



We absolutely think the cockpit is necessary, we are looking at some situations and methods for external views, but the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

Michael

"primary interface"

It still is the primary interface. The owner and pilot of the ship cannot engage in external drone view combat. Only secondary telepresence individuals.

Yep, I couldnt find the other one, you will have to take my word for it, but he basically said they want it to be a cockpit experience within the cockpit. I have no reason to lie about it. Hell I can live with the ways its implemented. It's not that bad, but I can think of better ways which would have been inline with what they originally envisioned the game to be like though and would have been just as much fun. I just think they went for the easy option.

 

[Vorxian]

Ah, ED:1950 edition.

Even in the 1950s, we had remote stock market data

Seems they don't have the technology for it in ED, the year: 3300 [???]

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Heck, add to that the non-stop bending of dev quotes, and if tgat fails just flat-out stating they dont understand their own game. People arent interested in discussing anything, its just used to mine for ammo for whatever position they have.

If I were a dev I'd look at how succesfull the game is, then look at the sour es here and just flip the bird and go home to their family. Sounds like a way better time investment...

Who is bending dev quotes. I haven't seen it yet. And most people seem to be positive, especially the commander creator.

 

[Goose4291]

Ah, ED:1950 edition.

Laugh if you will, but I've spent most of today doing functionality checks on a weapon system that has been pretty much unchanged in concept since the 40's

Note: Not my photo.

 

[Zambrick]

You seriously underestimate what people can be pushed to do for money. [money]

They are a publicly traded company. They dont need your money.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Laugh if you will, but I've spent most of today doing functionality checks on a weapon system that has been pretty much unchanged in concept since the 40's

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c3/17/70/c3177016dc007935c5c7a1934a4ec680.jpg

Note: Not my photo.

If PD turrets had grades, that would be the E model

 

[Goose4291]

If PD turrets had grades, that would be the E model

Its a good job its not a CIWS or PD system then, isnt it?

 

[Vorxian]

Who is bending dev quotes. I haven't seen it yet. And most people seem to be positive, especially the commander creator.

No one is bending quotes MF, it's ok.

These quotes cannot be misrepresented. They are what they are.

So much stuff doesn't make sense, so no point in making sense of it. It is what it is.

I stopped paying much attention when it becomes possible to transmit interacting telepresence to a ship 50,000 LY from the bubble instantly, but it's still not possible to view commodities 5km from a station... or.. that you can telepresence 50,000 LY away, in real time, with no latency and no interference, but you're not able to upload exploration data just 10,000 LY out to a nearby station to back it up.

Such is the nonsensical backdrop of what we're dealing with. witchspace views of your ship is.. well.. just another brick in the wall tbh.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Its a good job its not a CIWS or PD system then, isnt it?

Throwaway fun comment, not srs. Honestly, the devotion to realism around here!

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

People can try to formulate clever metaphors as to how a 3rd person view could work, or may work, or whatever.. but in reality the resounding answer is this: "third person changes the game to something different and isn't what we want for the game."

I love how your entire argument hinges on an assumption that you're somehow qualified to speak on the behalf of every single player of ED.

The lack of self-awareness in these threads is becoming comical.

 

[Vorxian]

They are a publicly traded company. They dont need your money.

Well actually, their stock price is being affected by the quality of arguments on this very thread! When the argument pro 3rd person view is winning, the price goes up... [yesnod] When the opinion goes against 3rd person view.. price dips [squeeeee]

 

[Zambrick]

Here are the weapons they have been using within the last 25 years. Not the deck gun on a 45 to 50 year old ship like you have shown.

Spoiler

The actual replacement for your weapon.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Goose4291]

Here are the weapons they have been using within the last 25 years. Not the deck gun on a 45 to 50 year old ship like you have shown.

Spoiler

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d5/f1/25/d5f12528aae51fee65ff8c257bc5d499.jpg

The actual replacement for your weapon.

Spoiler

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/MK-38_25mm_gun_system.jpg

Spoiler

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/43/87/60/43876060e9861f347c5d9f3c065054bc.jpg

Spoiler

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-medi...ogressive,q_80,w_800/zfv3p28wcbd18el2cbl6.jpg

Spoiler

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WiFw4NOE_...BU0/ThssO6cu-GQ/w799-h561-no/Kashtan+CIWS.jpg

I take it you're going to just ignore the part where I said I was working on something that was pretty much exactly the same as that picture I posted less than 30 minutes ago?

 

[Zambrick]

Well actually, their stock price is being affected by the quality of arguments on this very thread! When the argument pro 3rd person view is winning, the price goes up... [yesnod] When the opinion goes against 3rd person view.. price dips [squeeeee]

lol one days price and its not even over.

You obviously do not understand anything to do with the stock exchange. Here is a trend

You think brokers are looking at this thread?

Spoiler

Over 100% increase in trading price since they went public.

Again, they dont need your money.