Hacker forum and what I learned

[nigeljk]

Apologies for slightly hijacking your thread but I was (slowly typing ) this reply when it got closed.

The correct final solution is for FD to kill the hack. Not easy at the best of times but with a compacted delivery pipeline I wouldn't expect the final solution anytime soon. Bans are sticking plasters, at best, and you can only hope that it deters new adopters from using the hack to bolster their position then stopping before being detected.

I would suspect that a database trawl looking for tell tails is underway, but this again is only a stop gap. I use mainly Mobius so the impact for me is really only the BGS stuff. I was considering trying out open but will now wait until the final solution is in place.

FD also have to consider their IP when responding to 'public pressure'. Given the technical prowess of some of the posters here this can be the only reason they won't engage on the technicalities. Even signing a NDA is unlikely to protect them from a disastrous leak, and legal action is costly and often does not provide a remedy.

 

[Riverside]

Sure, just like you and I are doing right now. I never suggested otherwise.

My point was that making that kind of info public only satisfies a small portion of the itch, and wouldn't stop the bellyaching anyway.

Why does the bellyaching need to be stopped? Cheating in a multi-player environment is a problem, and for some playstyles it's a significant problem. There is a deterrent in publishing stats. Number identified, tracked over time can be compared (by players) to the amount of cheating they believe they see.

This helps to build trust that the overseers are on the ball. That trust is currently lacking.

 

[Mohrgan]

Why does the bellyaching need to be stopped? Cheating in a multi-player environment is a problem, and for some playstyles it's a significant problem. There is a deterrenpublishing stats. Number identified, tracked over time can be compared (by players) to the amount of cheating they believe they see.

This helps to build trust that the overseers are on the ball. That trust is currently lacking.

What I am promoting is 'Report and move on'. Public announcements only satisfies the itch for Schadenfreude. If there is going to be bellyaching, why offer fuel?

 

[Riverside]

What I am promoting is 'Report and move on'. Public announcements only satisfies the itch for Schadenfreude. If there is going to be bellyaching, why offer fuel?

Schadenfreude is justified for cheating imo, it is justice being dispensed by the governing body that acts as a deterrent. I agree there is good reason not to name & shame individuals, and that it is important to avoid false positives where possible too with due diligence.

While you may not feel the need to be reassured there are plenty that do. The evidence presented in this thread is enough for me tbh.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Standing firmly in Hacks/Cheats are for the skilless and pathetic camp. Mind is made up, position cannot be changed. Don’t care about manga, has no place here. Just play the game, win or lose, since there is no “win” condition, even after you’ve visited every system in the galaxy, escaped the Anaconda Graveyard and orbited Raxxla, you still will not win.

 

[Mohrgan]

Schadenfreude is justified for cheating imo, it is justice being dispensed by the governing body that acts as a deterrent. I agree there is good reason not to name & shame individuals, and that it is important to avoid false positives where possible too with due diligence.

While you may not feel the need to be reassured there are plenty that do. The evidence presented in this thread is enough for me tbh.

That points out a real differences in opinion. I favor a quiet, measured, progressive response.

 

[Krash]

What I am promoting is 'Report and move on'. Public announcements only satisfies the itch for Schadenfreude. If there is going to be bellyaching, why offer fuel?

I tend to agree with this. Anything they report will be contested, picked at, railed against and belittled. The contented majority keep quiet for the most part. You don't want to stick your head in a hornet's nest?? The nerve!!

 

[ryan_m]

It took me 10 seconds to find this user's forum of the Elite hacker tool that Ryan is raising the alarm about. Don't ask me to post a link to that forum here. I read a bunch of these posts, I'm up to January 2019, but here is the first one that really caught my eye:


Reading more of these posts, several things became obvious to me:
1. FDEV detects these trainers
2. Each new patch breaks them
3. Users are banned after 2 warnings
4. There are some users testing the limits to be "safe" without getting detected.
5. Comical requests for features like, "endless limpets" and "full pip everything?"

Something to keep in mind is that the hack that you found is not the hack I did my post on. That specific hack is detectable and has been for a while. The one we sent to FDev is not detectable. Endless limpets and "full pip everything" exists for the one we found.

 

[Krash]

Something to keep in mind is that the hack that you found is not the hack I did my post on. That specific hack is detectable and has been for a while. The one we sent to FDev is not detectable. Endless limpets and "full pip everything" exists for the one we found.

The front-end looks the same with the tabs and sliders.

 

[Hullreaver]

I have not looked at the hacks and have no desire to look at the hacks, but do any of them have anything to allow someone to do something with interdictions? I had something very strange happen the other day when I got ganked. I immediately pulled back to submit, since it was a human cmdr, and got the dreaded "evasion failed". No idea how that was possible. Once the interdiction started, it could not have been more than 1 to 2 seconds before I pulled back on the throttle and I got the message after pulling back on the throttle to submit. Needless to say, I thought of the ongoing hacking thread, but I just chalked it up to one of those things that can happen in ED.

 

[ryan_m]

The front-end looks the same with the tabs and sliders.

They are definitely not the same. You found the same one Plater did. Note that on the screens you have for the hack, there's no tabs for modifying individual modules, no HUD mods, etc. Those are all present on the one we found.

 

[Krash]

They are definitely not the same. You found the same one Plater did. Note that on the screens you have for the hack, there's no tabs for modifying individual modules, no HUD mods, etc. Those are all present on the one we found.

Yes, this one is more general. How do you know FDev can't detect usage of this "super" tool?

 

[Krash]

I have not looked at the hacks and have no desire to look at the hacks, but do any of them have anything to allow someone to do something with interdictions? I had something very strange happen the other day when I got ganked. I immediately pulled back to submit, since it was a human cmdr, and got the dreaded "evasion failed". No idea how that was possible. Once the interdiction started, it could not have been more than 1 to 2 seconds before I pulled back on the throttle and I got the message after pulling back on the throttle to submit. Needless to say, I thought of the ongoing hacking thread, but I just chalked it up to one of those things that can happen in ED.

That's an example of why these hacks are a cancer. It could be a bug or could be a cheater. How many of us have been accused of cheating and have been totally innocent? Can't give props to your opponent for excellent [skills/engineering/aim] anymore.

 

[Exeider]

Comical requests for features like, "endless limpets"

That's...... actually not a bad idea, i mean we have endless probes, and if you put a cooldown on the PvP limpet usage (to prevent hatchbreaker spam), that could go along way to solve the limpet controller issue. It would mean only needing one mod slot for the controller itself, instead of at minimim 2, controller + cargo rack for limpets.[/QUOTE]

 

[Krash]

That's...... actually not a bad idea, i mean we have endless probes, and if you put a cooldown on the PvP limpet usage (to prevent hatchbreaker spam), that could go along way to solve the limpet controller issue. It would mean only needing one mod slot for the controller itself, instead of at minimim 2, controller + cargo rack for limpets.

I like the request for "gimbals with no wobble", the cheaters treat the hacker like the dev genie.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Can't give props to your opponent for excellent [skills/engineering/aim] anymore.

No, you still very much can.

 

[ryan_m]

Yes, this one is more general. How do you know FDev can't detect usage of this "super" tool?

Because I have access to the discord and no one has eaten bans which is usually the sign. They flag pieces that are likely to be detected and the rest are considered "currently undetected".

 

[Exeider]

I like the request for "gimbals with no wobble", the cheaters treat the hacker like the dev genie.

 

[babelfisch]

Ghost banned players is just urban legend IMO.

There are several reports of players being shadow banned if you search for it in google.

Have to be honest, I'm amazed at just how light-handed FDev's punishment regime is. Like 'not at all convinced I'm happy to spend any more money with them' amazed.

The various 'exploits' of the past (mode switching, running missions when you know the payouts are glitched, even the old engineering exploit) are all open to some degree of debate as to how seriously, or otherwise, they should be treated.

Using a trainer, where a player has to make a conscious decision to download software and break the ToS every time they use it, is not in the same ballpark. It should be a warning the first time because everybody deserves one chance to change. Second offence - permanent account ban. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 credits, just pack up your stuff and sling your hook.

In particular, permaban to solo for a third offence send a very interesting message. See I mainly play in solo so whether it's their intent or not, what FDev are actually saying there is that they're happy to provide people who have been caught cheating three times with the same gameplay experience that I get, plus those players may be competing with me in any BGS activity that I choose to get involved in. Yeah cheers for that, it's good to know where I stand.

I haven't played for about three months but had been thinking about maybe dipping my toe in the water again. Not so much now.

Actually it seems like people aren't just banned to Solo but also loose the ability to influence the BGS.

 

[firemane]

I wonder if they charge for the trainers.