Hacker forum and what I learned

Tikanderoga

Tikanderoga
Jaggid Edje said:
You are grossly over-generalizing. Once you are done playing a game normally, have exhausted all of the challenge and accomplishments you can out of it and are just plain bored with it, cheats, trainers, and whatnot can be fun to fool around with to extend the game's entertainment value for a little longer.

I was a huge fan of the original Privateer, way back in the ... i think 90's...and after a few hundred hours of playing it normally I started memory editing to modify ship parameters and got another hundred+ hours out of it. I'd have quit playing earlier if not for that additional gameplay that "cheating" opened up.

Yes, some gamers who cheat do so to bypass the challenge, and yes, for them they are cheating themselves...but it's over-generalization to say that is the case across the board.

That being said, in an online game where everything you do potentially impacts other players it is ethically wrong to use cheats and is against the ToS. And that's what this is about, whether it's "Fun" or not is beside the point.
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I remember editing Privateer just for the heck of it.
I finished it 3 times without anything, but i loved the game, so I had a look at what's in it.
4 Steltek guns? Because why not!
Add a massive reactor to the tiniest ship? Because I can!

Some don't bypass the challenge, some just skip the grind because not everyone enjoys grinding.
In Mortal Kombat 10, you need coins to unlock the crypt chests - You can either play the game for 100s of hours, or just add coins and skip the grind, then play the game because you like it, not because you HAVE to play it to get the coins to unlock the chests.
You can just grind the coins on easy mode, play the towers on end and you'll get there eventually.
 

Sphinx2k

Sphinx2k
ryan_m said:
I think it's possible that FDev just aren't super concerned with cheats in general. Most players play it as a single player game so the impacts are minimal for a portion of the playerbase. Problem is, it's NOT a single player game even if you play in solo, so the impacts still exist and anyone not playing in solo can feel them directly if they encounter another player.
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Well the press are running with it now, I doubt this will be ignored. So congratulations on highlighting it so well.

www.pcgamer.com

Elite Dangerous hacks are becoming a problem, and Frontier is investigating

Frontier says it's looking into what players are saying is an increase in hacks and bots.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
ryan_m said:
That is not what I said. I said they won't do anything against it possibly because they don't think it's a big enough issue given that one is publicly available (detectable) and the other has to have hoops jumped through in order to obtain it.

You should re-read things before posting.
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Sorry, that wasn't clear.
If it's detectable doesn't depend on public availability but on the effort that went into coding the hack. Thanks to you the hack is available to Frontier.
If your point is that Frontier won't do anything against it because only a handful of people use it, fair enough. On the other hand, this is the internet, there isn't really such a thing as not publicly available... ;)
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Schmack said:
The other hack went dormant because of the code, not because it was detected. They only detected long jumps and overt Open god-like behavior, and infinite fuel, from what I've read. When Horizons was released, money making was easy enough, no coders were interested in doing anything openly and some felt they were already being infiltrated by FDev so they went dark (ooooh sounds dramatic, Schmack... please tell me more). They've been doing this for a long time, and only recently either A) allowed someone else to control their gate keeping or B) people who have been doing it are getting nailed and so they want to turn double agent to profess innocence "no we were only there to spy on them".

Whatever narrative is more entertaining, go with that one.
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Nope, the other hack does get detected.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Maolagin said:
To clarify, my point was that I suspect that FDev didn't set out specifically to block a particular cheat app - my guess was that it's more likely they add new cheat detection periodically and at most checked that the latest round caught the most widespread app.
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I believe they actually need to specifically block a particular cheat app due to the way these cheats work.



This conversation in a bit awkward because we're all avoiding linking to sources we found, so I can't really dispute this other than to say it's inconsistent with what I've seen so far. Users of these hacks are complaining about getting punishments even when they (think) they are not using these known-detectable features. As others have reported, a common thread is that what gets noticed or punished is not predictable.
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Yes, it seems like Frontier is banning irregularly which is pretty much the best way to keep hackers in the dark about how their hacks get detected.



Again, this is inconsistent with what I've seen. The biggest recent change seems to be that the original cheat apps all targeted the 32-bit client. When that was discontinued in favor of 64-bit only, all the existing cheats broke and had to be remade from scratch. I get the impression that took at least several months, so this is coming to prominence now in part because cheat apps that work with the current client only recently matured and gained significant followings.
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True, just want to point out that the last popular hack (which gets detected since quite some time) was 64 bit.
 

BDelacroix

BDelacroix
Do people actually believe you can make hack proof code? This isn't an easy task. It is like ECM and ECCM. A constant game of one-upmanship that nobody ever wins, you can only mitigate.
 

sollisb

Banned
S
ryan_m said:
That is not what I said. I said they won't do anything against it possibly because they don't think it's a big enough issue given that one is publicly available (detectable) and the other has to have hoops jumped through in order to obtain it.

You should re-read things before posting.
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It's a well known play to give the dummies the last gen or earlier trainer/cheat/injector, while the newer stuff is only available to the chosen few.

No matter how good the devs think they are, there are better hackers. End of story. Anyone in IT will tell you this.
 

Leadfoot

Leadfoot
BDelacroix said:
Do people actually believe you can make hack proof code? This isn't an easy task. It is like ECM and ECCM. A constant game of one-upmanship that nobody ever wins, you can only mitigate.
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It's been said that the best way to hack-proof any program is to finish it, then hand it over to a couple of 15-year old nerds and tell them to break it. Once they break it, ask them to harden it so even THEY can't break it. Pay them handsomely for their service.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Hullreaver said:
I have not looked at the hacks and have no desire to look at the hacks, but do any of them have anything to allow someone to do something with interdictions? I had something very strange happen the other day when I got ganked. I immediately pulled back to submit, since it was a human cmdr, and got the dreaded "evasion failed". No idea how that was possible. Once the interdiction started, it could not have been more than 1 to 2 seconds before I pulled back on the throttle and I got the message after pulling back on the throttle to submit. Needless to say, I thought of the ongoing hacking thread, but I just chalked it up to one of those things that can happen in ED.
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That happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I jumped into SC and there was a cutter waiting there - immediate "interdiction detected" and even though I zeroed the throttle immediately, the interdiction completed in the time it took to submit.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Midian Cabal said:
No, I don't. Are you trying to say that I can keep the car if there's no policemen to see me?
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I thought you were breaking in to steal radio, not car. Is not advisable to run around with property and plate announcing "I belong someone else". Gotta find workshop with policeman not seeing you - that is greater risk.
 

Midian Cabal

Midian Cabal
Navigare Necesse Est said:
I thought you were breaking in to steal radio, not car. Is not advisable to run around with property and plate announcing "I belong someone else". Gotta find workshop with policeman not seeing you - that is greater risk.
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I don't think it really matters that much what I want to steal. In both (all?) cases are the repercussions that await me those that stop me, and it's the same with cheating.

I assume that people are much less likely to install and use cheats if the company periodically officially states how many cheaters have been banned and I personally feel safer when I hear in the news that the police caught a gang that manufactured hacking devices for stealing cars.

If police gives me a canned response how they're doing everything possible 6 months after I reported a theft and I still see ads for hacking devices, I might stop believing they're really doing their job.

As I said, it's all about trust and public image.
But it seems I won't be parking my car on the streets of Berlin. ;)
 
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