Hello Games Exploring worlds Vs Elite Dangerous.

shreddog

shreddog
cpbtrading said:
Now that, walking out of the ship and around a station or settlement on a planet. Would give me reason to buy one perhaps..:D
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Maybe that will come in time for the next generation Rift :D It's going to be an immense upgrade from CV1.
Not only a wider field of view and much higher res, but also varifocal lenses, meaning you get true depth of view and even more sense of scale.
 

Backer42

B
My impression so far:

ED: Impressive release (for a Kickstarter game), very disappointing paid update (retroactively categorized "Early Access" by FD).

NMS: Very disappointing release, impressive free update.

The latter is always good to see. Nevertheless all space games have a long way to go.
 

cpbtrading

cpbtrading
Backer42 said:
My impression so far:

ED: Impressive release (for a Kickstarter game), very disappointing paid update (retroactively categorized "Early Access" by FD).

NMS: Very disappointing release, impressive free update.

The latter is always good to see. Nevertheless all space games have a long way to go.
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But early backers (ED) don't pay.. or do they ?
 

TieKnee

TieKnee
having no issues with the planets or the lack of legs, this is a super VR, game that fills the needs of many.... still loving it and still playing ...since the beginning !!! Thanks FD, keep up the good work!
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
sleutelbos said:
You are wrong, and you can fly from station to station in normal flight. Or from station to planetary base. Or wherever.
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Well I guess I was wrong about the one thing in that list that I preemptively caveated that I wasn't 100% sure of, which nonetheless makes no difference in how any person normally plays the game. And right about the rest of the list and the entire larger point which is that everything of consequence is spawned in and out everytime you change travel modes and that there is no continuity between those mecessary modes of travel.

sleutelbos said:
Ship dogfighting is the best spacesim AI I have ever seen. Record me a vid of you fighting an elite eagle in your own eagle, without relying on OP engineers.
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AI is not about being hard to beat in a fight, it's about believable and interesting behavior. The AI does not employ interesting tactics or maneuvers, the ships don't work together or coordinate in any way, they don't use the environment to their advantage, etc. All the challenge comes from giving them 100% accurate GIMBALLED railguns with no heat penalties, additional HP/SCBs, and the ability to ignore the effects of module damage. If Elite added dinosaurs to their planets right now, they could walk continuously in a straight line and clip through buildings, and so long as they've fired hitscan feedback cascade lasers out of their eyes and had near-infinite HP, you would call that "good AI".

But I'm saying good AI would be an NPC SRV that could drive across terrain and navigate around a base without getting stuck on walls or start spinning in place endlessly, or Skimmers which DO ANYTHING other than just hover there and get shot, or ships that can actually maneuver their way around complex geometry like the CQC structures. That's the kind of AI you need for interesting and believable animal behaviors, not more HP and harder hitting perfect accuracy weapons.

Do do you think that the ATR ships in Elite are an example of "good AI"? I think they're the same middling AI as all the other ships in the game, but with extra HP and lore-breaking Admin weapons. If that's what passes for good AI then me hypothetically hacking the game to grant unlimited shields would make me a "good pilot".
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
cpbtrading said:
Now in VR. When you stand behind your character, does he/she look life size ie. your size ?
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Never paid much attention to it. If I remember correctly I crafted my holo-me in 2D to be able to compare to my face along the process. In VR I rarely "get out of chair" because that makes my avatar headless. I didn't spent much time comparing tho, because the sights in VR are breathtaking and was much more occupied with them. That being said I didn't notice anything "weird" while toying around with in game photo mode, whatever that's currently called. It just looks "normal".
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
cpbtrading said:
Edit: but the vehicles going around and around in the space stations. They look like toys really. :O
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Stations are REALLY huge. Just to give an example, if you think you could jump from Asp Explorer cockpit to the ground with ease, in VR you would reconsider, because you'd saw that you would probably break your legs.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
What the two games do differently is that NMS gives you reasons to do things so you can get other things. First off I have to repair myself and my ship and add scanners and tool technology. From that point on I'm free to do whatever I want but to get certain things I have to do certain things but it doesn't stop there. Along the way there's a dozen distractions (cave systems, valleys, crashed freighters, ancient ruins, buildings, etc).

In ED the only reason to do anything is to buy more ships that all do the same thing and that's pretty much it. Even Engineers is a pointless exercise because it leads to very little accomplishment for the time invested in it. Other than the change in hyperspace jumps, the rest of it isn't really needed to do anything else.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
Dutchman141 said:
ED and NMS are different games but still it leaves me gutted to see what a small team like Hello Games pulles off in such short time in comparison to what the much much larger Fdev has achieved in what four five years?
I'm not only talking about being able to walk on so many different kind of worlds but also all the stuff you can do there.
The number of things you can do on planet surfaces in ED is almost non existent compared to NMS.

I've watch quite the number or NMS youtubes already and I'm realy starting to get impressed.
I haven't bought NMS yet purely because I'm afraid that once I start playing it I'll never return to ED again.
I will buy it eventually though.

I'm not saying ED isn't any good, heck it's my favorite game but NMS offers so much more engaging gameplay and in contrary to ED a much more balanced effort vs reward system.
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That doesn't make sense - so a game you really like the look of and could have more fun with you won't buy because you don't want to stop playing another game?? :S

Just buy it - it's 20 quid lol
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
Iskariot said:
But that kind of flight reflex is the most basic and simplistic ai behaviour there is.

If ED's potential alien creature lifeforms are to be truly amazing and interesting for an explorer, then we will need to see very species specific behaviours.
For example creatures feeding their young in a myriad of possible ways.
Or very specific hunting and feeding behaviours, or grooming behaviour, etc. etc. etc.

This is what is lacking in NMS and it is that what makes the animal life feel terribly fake and staged.
You do not feel like you are on a living and breathing world with a unique ecosystem in NMS. You feel like you are in an amusement park that has been generated for you, the observer.

I sincerely hope that FDev is striving to do better, and that it is for that reason why we have to wait this long for it to be added.
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The creatures in NMS

- Attack you if you accidentally shoot them with your mining tool - the big ones anyway lol
- Scratch their head with their hind legs
- Flee if you get close unless they're not scared of you
- move in herds
- Flee if you start shooting
- Hunt and kill then eat other animals
- Will befriend you if you feed them
- poop
- possibly age as well
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
cpbtrading said:
Come on... You implement a lot of that nonsense and you'll get 10fps. I have no interest in creatures grooming themselves and nor have you, I'm sure.
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And take 10 years to develop. Just look at The Hunter and Call of the Wild - made by the same devs and have animal AI behaviour and those games took years to make. To add that level of detail and fit in Braben's "Big game hunting" is years of work so now we're in the realms of ED being the longest ever developed game in history are we?
 

Vasco Sapien

Vasco Sapien
I fired up Elite Dangerous last night for the first time since NMS was updated and i was immediately impressed by how visually beautiful ED is.

NMS has helped me rediscover the beauty of ED.
 

cpbtrading

cpbtrading
Vasco Sapien said:
I fired up Elite Dangerous last night for the first time since NMS was updated and i was immediately impressed by how visually beautiful ED is.

NMS has helped me rediscover the beauty of ED.
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That will be the case, the games are so different in style. Play ED for a time then go back to NMS, if only to look. The beauty of NMS will strike you just as much, but in that style. You have to love the NMS style to play the game for a really long period.
When I go back to any space game, I think, ah this is really nice, but its nice because its different. I don't get that going from say Rogue System to ED or vice-versa. Just games that are very different.

That said, going from Rogue System to ED is like going from a real car to a dodgem car.. :D
 

Daish

Daish
Brian of Ardagh said:
There's probably a really good technical explanations why a planet and the system it is in are different instances where in NMS they aren't. I would make a supposition that it's due to the size of the world in ED vs. NMS, apparently the planets in NMS are very small, so small they would barely register as small moons. In ED they are the actual size you would expect then to be. Now, that's not a knock on either game, it's really just a design decision by the developers of each game.
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Probably true on the planet size however what is there to see on A ED planet, rocks and more rocks, plus they use procedural generated pois??? at least with NMS there is something to see trees, plants, lots bases that look good!, oh yeah and rocks, And we can walk about with dare I say it Space legs, but keep that to yourself we don't want the community finding out about the space legs word or they'll start...:)
 

Dutchman141

Dutchman141
Vasco Sapien said:
I fired up Elite Dangerous last night for the first time since NMS was updated and i was immediately impressed by how visually beautiful ED is.

NMS has helped me rediscover the beauty of ED.
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Yes, ED is visually stunning and a true piece of art in that respect.
However visuals only go so far, I'd rather play an hour in a visually bit simpler game with plenty to do then stare at beautiful screens.
ED's not a bad game by far, I've been playing it for more then 2000 hours but right now I just want to actually do something, something that is rewarding and fun.
After these 2000 hours of ED I'm quite exhausted, NMS came to Xbox at exactly the right time for me.
 

Brian of Ardagh

B
Daish said:
Probably true on the planet size however what is there to see on A ED planet, rocks and more rocks, plus they use procedural generated pois??? at least with NMS there is something to see trees, plants, lots bases that look good!, oh yeah and rocks, And we can walk about with dare I say it Space legs, but keep that to yourself we don't want the community finding out about the space legs word or they'll start...:)
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I'm playing both games and I enjoy both of them, although I think I'll become bored with NMS eventually. As I said it comes down to developer decisions, FD wanted to create a somewhat realistic galaxy which meant somewhat realistic planets, they will fill in the rest later, in stages. HG went with a fantasy realm of a universe, nothing wrong with that but it does become obvious after awhile that the procedural generation in NMS is limited. There are variations of course but you can pick out the patterns. Yes, there are trees, plants, bases and rocks but each planet has a particular style and that style dictates the kind of life and rocks you'll find. As to the point about space legs, yes NMS has that but even on small planet it takes a long time to walk anywhere, thankfully there are other vehicles but then you aren't walking. NMS just has multiple types of SRV like vehicles.

For me ED is the game I was waiting all my life to play, I was in my 20s when the original Elite came out but I never heard about it, probably would have if we had the Internet in those days. NMS isn't something I was waiting for but it's interesting and I'll enjoy playing around with it for awhile. I really can't compare the two, one lets me play out my Star Trek/Star Wars lone/rogue pilot in space fantasy, NMS has it's points but it doesn't pull me in like ED does.
 
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