Help me understand why I had to die

Other loadouts like short range blaster plasma accelerators can deal an astounding 1000MJ of raw damage per shot.
How? On Coriolis, I get 220 MJ for a single size 4 short range (give or take a few percent for secondary effects). Or are you talking about a full plasma Krait (or whatever)?
 
How? On Coriolis, I get 220 MJ for a single size 4 short range (give or take a few percent for secondary effects). Or are you talking about a full plasma Krait (or whatever)?
Propably full SRB PA Krait taking into account thermal conduit.
That one WILL hurt though.
 
Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.
1. How did he find me?
2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun
Dear commandante, sorry, but you did the worst. Full pips to SYS, 1-2 boosts (enough with 1 pip on ENG), breath deeply, target the closest system (there is a key for that) and then hi wake to another system! Going forwards into supercruise is death.
He found you because you left low wake signal, everyone does when dropping onto location. I'm not sure how long does the signal stay, but if you drop there you will be lucky find another player there.
He used fragment cannons. Those are turbo deadly in short range and can be laden with engine choke effect and increased reload speed. And he wasn't a pirate, just a regular murder hobo, a ganker. Pirates generally don't kill. Not all, I only kill when the victim starts to fight me, then "cooperation" changes into a bloody melee.

A tip from a friendly pirate - trade one or two shield booster for point defense. With that a pirate won't be able to open your hatch with hatch breakers.
 
First of all, thanks a lot to everyone for all your valuable feedback! A lot of your answers helped me to understand better what might have happened back there.

You were in a PVE mining ship, they were in a PVP killing ship. Thats the long and short of it. You can build a 'better' ship but thats a choice / trade off you make if you want.

FSD can be knocked out by engineering effect or PowerPlay missile and have to reset with 100%. Can also 'malfunction' due to overall damage or heat damage even and need to 'reset', can happen at 99% I think but much more chance below 80%.

How did they find you? Partially luck, they dropped out of SC and flew around, or the game instanced you together in the first place. Youd been there a while it seems so couldnt have been a low wake signal they followed from SC.

Avoidance - meh. Get out of the Asteroid Field / Mass Lock zone before checking Inara so can jump immediately. Best practice is always to have a route set for one more jump or leave left panel highlighting a System to jump to in emergency. Lots of Point Defence can help with the missiles, but if you were afk it wouldnt have been the hardest target anyway and could get close.

Use Inara while mining, I know its not as up to date as it was or the market is more volatile so thats not as easy as used to be.

Break immesion, log off or into solo while Inara and then back into Open for journey if you want.

Shotgun - Frag Cannons, awesome weapon with engineering. Can strip shields and hull, not so good for targeting FSD drive though so must have been combo.

If you want to learn techniques in general, there a few gankers teach evasion skills and optional PVP.
1. A: Probably scouting hotspots. I assume you were within 100km radius of the hotspot, so circling around it in a spiral will eventually make him find you. There are more scout strategies but at the end of the day, yes, it could have been just a lucky spot (I also found some random once in the deep black, unlikely but still possible).

2. A: What is your CMDR name, may I ask? Just recently I have seen footage of a mining Cutter getting destroyed within seconds by a Krait with Pacifiers (shotguns). If it was you, I can take a look at the footage in detail and give you a better answer. If not, fragment cannons (shotguns) deal devestating damage to both shields and hull. Other loadouts like short range blaster plasma accelerators can deal an astounding 1000MJ of raw damage per shot. Last but not least there are also torpedos and minelaunchers that have a special effect which damages the shield generator directly. This means that your shield strength is irrelevant as your shield generator integrity goes down and if it reaches zero your shields drop.

For your FSD to be disabled while shields were up there is an explaination. Dumbfire missiles and the power player weapon from Yuri Groom can temporarily disable FSDs when getting hit even with shields online. They don't damage your FSD but force it to reboot which means you are unable to jump for a couple of seconds. There are also flechette launchers that can indeed damage modules through shields. And then there is the ion minelauncher which disables your thrusters that you need to jump or use the FSD in the first place (it's coupled with the thrusters per lore iirc).

3. A: Lots of things. There are numerous groups out there that offer basic training for survival in open. Just last weekend at the time writing this there has been an event within the New Pilot's Initiative for gank evasion. Gankers would explain what they do to hunt some random player down and how to avoid it. For gankers this is fun because easy targets are boring and for gankees this is fun because evading a gank comes with statisfaction (and preserves your 300t of pianite).
For your case in particular I can't give you a detailed answer as I don't know how you fly your ship in general and what happened in that case you've described.


If you are interested in enhancing your skills and get to a point where you'll never have to worry about being ganked anymore feel free to contact any of the known gankers as most, if not all of them are always happy to help getting players to a "gankproof" level. Otherwise you can contact me as well via PM but I'll just redirect you to one of the gank evasion places I know of.
Until then, have a good one :)
Those two posts especially gave me a lot of insights into mechanics that are new to me. FSD disabling weaponry... The horror! And here I was, hoping that hiding behind a fat shield would at least make me a somewhat harder target...

@Crimson Kaim My CMDR name is the same as here on the forum. If that footage is staring me, send me a link, will ya? Would really like to see the other‘s perspective.

Anyway, I‘ll take the incident as an opportunity to learn. As I said, I‘ll probably retreat to single player for a while, until I‘m more comfortable with my workflow and tweaked my ship more. I do plan to return to open, though, hopefully a little wiser next time.

Fly safe, everyone!
o7
 
My CMDR name is the same as here on the forum. If that footage is staring me, send me a link, will ya? Would really like to see the other‘s perspective.
You are not the CMDR on that footage I have seen. Just checked again. But either way, wish ya a good learning success!
 
Can you give us an idea of what your build looks like? Cutters can be fairly sturdy with even the most basic engineering.

Combine a ship that's a step above the bare minimum, with some situational awareness, and you'll go a long way. I've been around the block plenty of times, and pride myself in weaseling out of ganks while in non-PvP ships. Once in awhile, however, I get caught slipping.

One of my favorite deaths, so far. Truly a quality gank.

In this clip, I was complacent. I was either watching a video, or goofing off on my phone, while lazily mining. Notice how long it takes me to react to the danger. Torpedoes, in this case. Super easy to avoid if you know they're coming, and even if you don't, they're incredibly slow.

Notice the unresolved signature on the bottom of my sensor panel in this clip. You can see an ejected heatsink appear near it on sensors, just before the attack. That's a clear sign of someone who doesn't want to be seen-- if you're paying attention. Any other time, I would have noticed a red flag.

I was aware of the wing that attacked me, as I saw them in supercruise, but didn't bother looking at their build. I made the mistake of assuming they were mining, too. I almost got out, and I would have too, had I been paying attention. My shields aren't the strongest on my mining conda, but they're plenty to survive attack.

Most players you meet will be neutral or friendly-- but it's better to err on the side of caution, and assume hostility.

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/cknarf/video/113179508
 
Let's not :)

No extortion attempt, no hatchbreakers, no pirate.

Unfortunately all those goodies that were in your hold got destroyed with your ship.
300 tons of painite lost, brings a tear to the eye of a real pirate.

Not sure there is much you could have done in those circumstances, you were caught off guard and unable to escape.
I always assume other commanders are hostile, and re-evaluate once out of their weapon range.
Running at the first sight is (imho) entirely sensible.

I suppose mining in a wing may offer some advantage, more lookouts and always the chance you could escape whilst they destroy your wingmate?
I was about to say the same: this was a gank pure and simple, as your attacker had no interest in your cargo. If mining in open use ctrl-b to show the network bandwidth on the bottom left of the screen: if it suddenly increases you know a player has entered your instance and you should probably start moving out of the rings so you can jump out quickly. Long range sensors will also help give you advance warning.
 
Pressing Ctrl + B brings up a Bandwidth number when this number goes into the high thousands there is a player in the same instance as you.
You can use this to find players in rings, just move around until the Bandwidth increases.
You can also use it to know someone is in the instance with you and you can be prepared to jump away, by having a system pre-selected in your nav panel, then just jump at the first sign of trouble, if your not in a combat pvp ship that is.

Its a shame it exists as it removes any stealth.
But its not classed as an exploit and your enemy is probably using it.
 
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Been returning to the game after a long pause. I‘m really a bit out of touch with the flow of things, so I dabbled in different activities, trying to make some cash to grade up my Cutter. Since I heard painite mining was a good way right now, I gave it a try today. Went to the place, did the thing, all went nice and smooth.

As I was just about to find a good sell location (and stared at Inara on my tablet), my COVAS started to scream out about an incoming attack. Glancing at the radar (or whatever it‘s called), I noticed I was being attcked by a player. Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.

I‘d say it took about 10-15 seconds max before I stared at the rebuy screen, still not entirely able to grasp what had been going on.

It‘s okay. I‘m not bitter, just a bit frustrated. I knew there was a risk involved in playing in open. I can afford the buyback (still hurts). The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.

Thinking about the incident a bit later (with a cooler head), a few questions popped up in my mind. I hope some fellow pilots here can enlighten me, so that I can avoid possible mistakes the next time.

1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.

All in all I‘m more frustrated than anything. The financial loss isn‘t the biggest deal, but the loss of time invested is (for me at least, since time is precious for me). Guess I‘ll stay out of open until I get a better picture of things and seriously upgraded my ship.

TLDR:
My Cutter melted like a snowball in hell and I‘d like to learn from my mistakes... whatever they were.
You didn't HAVE to die. You merely made yourself available to be killed.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but you put the conditions in place to let yourself be killed.
A Cutter gives little protection unless you REALLY know how to handle the Big Three. If you are mining in them in Open and are NOT a seasoned PvP fighter,you need to focus your build on DEFENCE - and defence against players is VERY top-level indeed.
To put it bluntly, you died because you attracted the attention of a Ganker. He was NOT a pirate; not anyone playing the story of the game. He killed you because he FELT like it - JEEZ I hate those guys.
But (shrug) they ARE out there. Once you finished your Painite run you SHOULD have plotted a course perpendicular to the nearest buyer, Jumped and Boosted many times to shake any Gankers off your tail. Heading to a buyer's port in Open you SHOULD be paranoid as HELL because Gankers ARE looking for easy kills.
Go the wide way; take the scenic route. Plan to come in from a direction nobody expects.
Your Cutter is strong and WILL repulse NPC's. It is helpless against Players.
So if you DO want to make the run in Open be warned that gankers ARE looking for you. In this case, one found you. Go wide, get creative and fly unpredictably. Plan your next jump - then CHANGE it because the ganker looking for you will be doing the same. Then do it AGAIN.
Back when I was drinking, I used to load my T9 with Void Opals then announce in chat when I would depart, and from where. It was insane fun and MASSIVELY stupid and I WAS caught a few times.
If you want to avoid gankers - that is who killed you - go Solo when flying to a buyer. If you remain in Open, be aware that gankers ARE looking for ships just like you to kill. In Open, you have the ability to give them a merry, confusing chase jumping an all sorts of weird directions to shake them off. Your LAST Jump should be from the worst angle possible; where any Ganker has to race to reach you while you boost into a station's Aegis.
It's tough but HUGE fun.
 
Been returning to the game after a long pause. I‘m really a bit out of touch with the flow of things, so I dabbled in different activities, trying to make some cash to grade up my Cutter. Since I heard painite mining was a good way right now, I gave it a try today. Went to the place, did the thing, all went nice and smooth.

As I was just about to find a good sell location (and stared at Inara on my tablet), my COVAS started to scream out about an incoming attack. Glancing at the radar (or whatever it‘s called), I noticed I was being attcked by a player. Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.

I‘d say it took about 10-15 seconds max before I stared at the rebuy screen, still not entirely able to grasp what had been going on.

It‘s okay. I‘m not bitter, just a bit frustrated. I knew there was a risk involved in playing in open. I can afford the buyback (still hurts). The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.

Thinking about the incident a bit later (with a cooler head), a few questions popped up in my mind. I hope some fellow pilots here can enlighten me, so that I can avoid possible mistakes the next time.

1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.

All in all I‘m more frustrated than anything. The financial loss isn‘t the biggest deal, but the loss of time invested is (for me at least, since time is precious for me). Guess I‘ll stay out of open until I get a better picture of things and seriously upgraded my ship.

TLDR:
My Cutter melted like a snowball in hell and I‘d like to learn from my mistakes... whatever they were.
1. The opposing CMDR probably either followed you in, or the area you dropped into wasn't as random as you thought (hotspot or RES nearby?). A purely coincidental encounter isn't out of the question, but would be extremely rare in an unfrequented area.

2. Frag cannons and an FSD disruptor dumbfire. A large, relatively immobile target won't last long unless very well built and flown. Your setup probably wasn't as good as you assumed, and putting four pips into engines would have significantly compromised your shield resistances. That eight shield booster is almost always a mistake...a PDT, ECM, or heatsink launcher is generally more useful.

3. Lack of situational awareness, a general ignorance of the capabilities of one's opponents, and an overestimation of one's own hardware were the issues here. If you are in a large, slow, mining vessel, leaving the moment a real threat shows up is the only viable option.
 
1. The opposing CMDR probably either followed you in, or the area you dropped into wasn't as random as you thought (hotspot or RES nearby?). A purely coincidental encounter isn't out of the question, but would be extremely rare in an unfrequented area.

2. Frag cannons and an FSD disruptor dumbfire. A large, relatively immobile target won't last long unless very well built and flown. Your setup probably wasn't as good as you assumed, and putting four pips into engines would have significantly compromised your shield resistances. That eight shield booster is almost always a mistake...a PDT, ECM, or heatsink launcher is generally more useful.

3. Lack of situational awareness, a general ignorance of the capabilities of one's opponents, and an overestimation of one's own hardware were the issues here. If you are in a large, slow, mining vessel, leaving the moment a real threat shows up is the only viable option.
Surely OP had to have been in a well known hotspot for him to be found with his pants around his ankles like that...

The odds of this story happening just seem so remote.

Mining happily for hours then getting caught in a random spot of a huge asteroid ring when you’re just moments from jumping out to go sell a full load by a CMDR who also just so happens to be capable of quickly bringing down an engineered imperial cutter..... -breath-

This just doesn’t sound normal.

Unless...
If op is using mining tools to find the best hotspot and a cunning ganker is also using the same tools to find his next target... 🔪
 
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Quick Escapology guide :

Do this

Submit to the interdiction, your cool-down is faster (not applicable to escaping a fight).
As soon as you drop out of super-cruise max pips to engines 2 to shields (opposite for flying tanky ships).
Start boosting at full throttle away from the hostile (or back past it if it's a less manoeuvrable ship than yours).
Spam chaff.
Select a nearby system and start your jump (can't be mass-locked) if you have a route plotted you can select next destination in route with a single key stroke.
Evade whilst boosting until you jump.
Once you've jumped drop out of super-cruise select another nearby star and jump again (repeat if necessary).
Return to desired course.

Do not

Waste time wondering who he is or what he wants (interdiction is hostile).
Waste time talking.
Fly without shields.
Combat log (pull the plug).
 
When I put together my mining Cutter people said that going with class 8 prismatics was overkill. Stories like yours, unfortunate as it is, proves I was right.

Unless I'm actively mining I run in "Brave Sir Robin" mode. 4sys, 2eng, 0wep. This gives me an absolute strength of 18,375Mj. Plus the fact that 8A shields have 180 integrity, needing 5 torpedoes to take down, buys me enough time to run from any gank attempt.

My build: https://s.orbis.zone/9qdM
 
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