Then you raise a ticket with FD, report it, netlogs should show there was some monkey business going on, person doing it gets a kick from FD (maybe).
I don't get your point regarding PGs. This would only apply to those flying in open.
How to solve the Combat Logging Problem
- Thread starter Kaocraft
- Start date
Then you raise a ticket with FD, report it, netlogs should show there was some monkey business going on, person doing it gets a kick from FD (maybe).
I don't get your point regarding PGs. This would only apply to those flying in open.
The key words here would be "If two player's are ENGAGEMENT", which means, the attacked has returned fire, which doesn't happen by accident. Which means they accepted the attack. If I'm interdicted and go through the process of reading my weapons, locating the perp and returning fire, rather than low or high waking. Then I've accepted the challenge and thus could be guilty of combat logging. If while in my attempt to escape, I "combat log" then it shouldn't be considered CL. It is for the most case, a panic move.
Just so we're on the same page, did you mean people would get locked INTO Open, or locked OUT of it?
I guess I wouldn't have a problem with players getting locked OUT of Open but I can't imagine that'd please PvPers who've had people CL on them.
Also, if FDev did ever create any "Open Only" content, it would mean that players locked out of Open would be excluded from that content.
Which, of course, might also provide another way any such system could be weaponised.
As for raising a ticket, I'm not sure FDev would be keen to take on the responsibility of refereeing every possible case of CLing/kicking in ED.
I have no idea what netlogs might show but I have a suspicion that, if FDev ever did implement something like this, all that'd happen would be that people who got locked in/out of anything could raise a ticket and FDev would simply cancel the lock rather than bother to investigate further.
As I said earlier, I dunno whether it's accidental or deliberate but ED currently has a pretty good balance, where there's no major incentive for players to try and cheat but if FDev change things one way or the other that could easily change and, as a result, FDev could find themselves having created a bigger problem than the one they sought to fix.
Locked out of open.
I doubt most people do anything about it. We just know about those who do, which we will continue to know only that.
Please Add this.
Its would be an Awesome way to Grief the Griefers.
I will on Purpose Fly a Fully Loaded Transport Ship.
And then when Someone Attacks me. I will Combat Log.
And then Relog after calling 3 of my Friends. So I can Instantly Gank the Guy that Attacked me.
On a more Realistic note however.
No this Suggestion is useless.
It wont Solve the Problem as the other guy will Simply go Solo. And it wont Fix the underlying Problem which is that the Crime and Penalty System is not working Properly and thus currently makes Combat Logging the only Viable Countermeasure against Repeated Griefing and Ganking Actions.
What we Need is a Proper Crime and Penalty System.
If you Destroy a Ship that Costs someone 5 Million Rebuy. Then the Bounty on You needs to be 5 Million which you have to Pay if you get Caught or Killed regardless of what Ship you Fly yourself.
And if you Constantly Murder Innocent People outside of CZ or other War/Powerplay Situation. You need to be Declared a Notorious Murderer and get a Galaxy Wide Bounty and become unable to Dock anywhere except Lawless Systems.
Killing someone needs to Reduce your Standing with all Factions that Person is Affiliated with. Damaging your Reputation.
And Criminal Reputations need to be much more Persistent to actually Mean something.
Once that is Done the Solution to Combat Logging is Extremely Simple. And will Simply be that if you Mysteriously keep Losing the Connection during Combat you Will after a few Times get a Warning. And after a few more Times get Banned from Open Play and Forced to Stay in Solo for Increasingly Long Periods of Time.
I think you misunderstand.
The OPs idea seems to be that if you CL then you might log back in, carry on playing the game and then suddenly find yourself teleported back to the location where you CLed.
I guess I didn't explain this very well. OK:
Two ships, ship A and ship B. Ship A interdicts and opens fire on ship B. Ship B combat logs.
Ship A is now granted a one time use token to be teleported TO ship B. It is not done automatically, it is at ship A's discretion WHEN they want to use it. When they use it, they will be placed in the same local instance as ship B and can then resolve the situation however they want. If ship B combat logs again, ship A will be granted another, new, teleport token to use when it suits their convenience. Otherwise, the game continues as normal and that's the end of that. Ship B can escape legitimately, there can be a battle, they can talk it out, whatever. As for ship A, they next time they log in to the game, they will be returned to the spot they originally teleported from.
Ship B, the person who has committed the act of Combat Logging (or maybe just had some unlucky internet issue), will not be teleported around or have their gameplay disrupted in any way. Only Ship A will be teleported or otherwise experience any disruption in normal gameplay, and only IF they want to, WHEN they want to.
Ship B (the combat logger/accidental disconnectee) will keep playing their game exactly as normal. The only thing that can happen to them is that at some point, the person they escaped/accidentally disconnected from MAY appear in their instance at some point in the future. So you see, nobody is being punished they are simply being prevented from cheating their way out of an encounter.
Exploits? Let's see - ship B can go into solo and stay there forever. Not really a problem, this is probably where they should always have been. But if they ever go back to Open they may eventually find themselves in a reunion with Ship A at some point. Ship B can go into Solo, re-outfit their ship for combat, switch back into Open and then turn the tables on ship A when it teleports to them. Yes, that's an option. On the other hand, ship B might not opt to teleport over there right away so you might be stuck sitting around waiting for him for a long long time. You don't get to control WHEN the other player teleports to you so this strategy is of limited use.
I'm sure you can come up with better ideas for exploits/loopholes but if that's going to be your primary objection then I ask you to please try to come up with something that couldn't easily be solved with a minor tweak to the core idea. (example: some kind of goofy long distance hauling scheme where players collude to teleport each other over and over could easily be resolved by locking out the commodities market while in a "teleported" location)
Try to assume that I am proposing this as a template for something to build on and that there is flexibility here. Also please do not assume that I am suggesting that Frontier should not also continue their attempts to detect and ban people who engage in repeated combat logging, hacking of the game, etc.
Most Combat Loggers won't do this and in order to pull it off you'd have to go so out of your way to bait someone and coordinate your little gank squad that I really doubt this would be a problem for anyone. If you're jumping through that many hoops to supposedly "Grief the Griefers" you're already punishing yourself (which is good). The Griefers who get ambushed by you after you've re-outfitted will also either get what they deserve or else get a more exciting battle than they were expecting, a win-win as far as I'm concerned.
Also - what happens when you relog with your three friends and you're sitting there for 30 minutes and your original attacker never shows up? He gets to decide when he wants to show up, so he might appear three days later. You do not have any control over when he appears which means you might have to sit there like a doofus with your three friend for a long time, only to give up and go back to what you were originally doing and then be caught offguard.
Right ho, fair enough.
How would that work with more than 2 ships?
Say I find a gaggle of ships, fire on all of them and then CL, would they all get a "token" so they could teleport to my location?
I could wait for a reply to that question but I don't want to be unnecessarily cruel.
Thing is, what happens if I get a bunch of my buddies together, fire on them all and then CL - thus granting them a "token" each - and then, say, travel to Colonia and then send them a message telling them to cash-in their tokens to get their free trip to Colonia?
Seems like this would be as much use as a fast-travel exploit as it is a CLing fix.
This isn't some obscure topic I made up out of nowhere. This is intended to contribute to a larger ongoing discussion which has come up over and over again. It's already established that it's a problem and detrimental to the game. Nearly everyone agrees on that and if you aren't aware of this then you need to catch up.
The primary discussion is around whether or not it's a big enough problem to warrant whatever inconveniences or technical hurdles might have to be imposed to fix it. Combat Logging is already against the terms of service, it's already in theory a bannable offense, so it's not really up for discussion whether or not it's a problem, only the question of enforcement. Attempts to bait the thread into re-explaining, just for you, why Combat Logging is a problem, will be called out as the edge-lord derailment tactic that it is. If you want to argue about why it's NOT a problem, then please familiarize yourself with the topic and at least come up with a novel position rather than trying to drag the conversation down into the same boring regurgitated points that people have been slinging at each other forever.
The primary objection in most of these discussions is that there's supposedly no way to distinguish between combat loggers and no-fault accidental disconnects, because P2P and blah blah blah, therefore it would be evil for Frontier to punish single-offender Combat Loggers since in theory they might punish the wrong person.
I'm proposing something which I think circumvents some of these issues, punishes nobody, and actually HELPS people who find themselves in an "accidental disconnect" situation. If you have any genuine criticisms of the proposal, or something to add TO it; well that would be interesting. If you're confused about why Combat Logging is bad, you'll have to either start a whole new thread for it or else just do a little digging around in the forums to familiarize yourself with the topic. You can also just go away and not talk about Combat Logging at all, since you don't seem to care about it in the first place.
I dont need to Refit.
I got 3 Buddies to Gank him.
They dont need me.
And I doubt he can do it 3 Days Later.
No Offense. But FD would never Implement something like without a Timer of maybe 20 to 30 Minutes.
Just like Notoriety the Timer would likely not Run when Offline.
But it would not last 3 Days.
To begin with tough that was a Joke.
Who would want an Immersion Breaking Feature like this lol
How do you even end up taking this Seriously ???
Ok they cash in their free tokens to Colonia. What happens next and why is it a huge problem? Bear in mind that once they sign out of the game, or reach the rebuy screen, they will be returned to their original locations. So yes this could in theory be used as a weird limited form of (edit: TEMPORARY) fast travel. But bear in mind also that in order to achieve this scheme of yours, you'd have to first meet them in the bubble, fire on all of them, combat log on them, and then fly all the way to Colonia before it would be possible for them to do their one-time field trip to Colonia. They are going to be teleported to your location, after all.Right ho, fair enough.
How would that work with more than 2 ships?
Say I find a gaggle of ships, fire on all of them and then CL, would they all get a "token" so they could teleport to my location?
I could wait for a reply to that question but I don't want to be unnecessarily cruel.
Thing is, what happens if I get a bunch of my buddies together, fire on them all and then CL - thus granting them a "token" each - and then, say, travel to Colonia and then send them a message telling them to cash-in their tokens to get their free trip to Colonia?
Seems like this would be as much use as a fast-travel exploit as it is a CLing fix.
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It only breaks the immersion of the person who is being Combat Logged against. But their immersion has already been broken when the ship they were fighting suddenly vanished into thin air. The person who escaped by cheating will not have their immersion broken at all, they'll be able to resume playing just as before. Plus the person who escaped by cheating probably doesn't care about immersion that much, if they were willing to alt-F4 out of the game.
Then you're not arguing against my idea you're arguing against a different version of the idea that you just made up. But yes I agree that your made up version of the idea where it's on a 20 or 30 minute timer would be dumb and wouldn't work.
That's a little bit of a different interpretation from what I mean by engagement, and my preference would be for the system to be in play as soon as one player has either fired upon or interdicted the other, but even if the system adhered to your definition of "engagement," I think it would still be beneficial.
This teleport token idea is just bad, on so many levels.
It doesn't fit in with any game lore, at all, open to fast travel exploits, an in the end encourages combat logging.
It doesn't fit in with any game lore, at all, open to fast travel exploits, an in the end encourages combat logging.
So, even if they docked at a station they'd just automatically be teleported back to where they were as soon as they logged off?
Gotta say, that all seems unnecessarily "gamey" to me.
I wonder if it might, somehow, be possible to display the location of a CLer on the other party's galmap for a week?
Have the game set some kind of flag for everybody who's involved in PvP (as both aggressor or target) and then remove the flag when they leave the instance.
If you don't leave the instance in the regular way, the flag would remain set and your location would be visible on the galmap to everybody else who remained in the instance after you left for a set time.
I think the trick might be to try and implement stuff like that, which deters CLing, rather than trying to find ways to stop it entirely.
Seems like the more powerful the tool, the more likely it is to create significant exploits so creating small deterrents might be better.
I do agree with this general principle.
Are you Really Telling me that you Serious on this ????
Wow. I didnt Expect that.
Then Let me Correct my Earlier Posts.
Which I made under the Assumption that this Ridiculous Suggestion was a Joke because I didnt consider it possible that anyone would really Suggest something so Ridiculous.
1.
Your Suggestion is Impossible to Implement.
It would Destroy any Resemblance of Proper Gameplay and would be Extremely Easy to Abuse for both Sides.
If this can be Used without a Time Limit then this would make my Earlier Suggestion on Abusing it less Viable as you might end up Waiting.
But instead it would Open the Door to a Far more Absurd way of Abusing it.
Which is that I would take some Friends. Let them Shoot on me to get a Token to have Instant Teleport to me.
And this way being able to Instant Teleport them to any Location in the Galaxy upon Demand.
Which I could not just Abuse for Ganking but even for alot of PvE Stuff like doing Instant Transport of Goods or having an Instant Return Button after doing a Week long Exploration Trip etc etc.
Another Funny thing would be to basicly Combat Log on an Enemy Commander.
Then Take a Cheap Exploration Ship in Solo and Fly into Deep Space. So that the Guy when using the Token can Kill me like 10k Light Years out of the Bubble and have Fun Flying Back gg
2.
It would Completely Break Immersion for Several Players.
Especially because other Players can Abuse it.
The Worst is.
This Game is not really that Stable.
It is not that Rare for Players to be Disconnected after an Succesful Interdiction due to the Matchmaking Server Failing to Create a Stable Connection between the Two Clients.
This has happened to me several Times in the Past when trying to Play together with Friends which ended up with one of us Being Disconnected after trying to Enter an Instance together.
3.
It would not actually Fix the Problem. Because the only thing Changing would be that People will Simply Combat Log BEFORE they are Attacked to Avoid Granting a Token to Someone.
Especially because here anyone can Safely use the Menu Logout Button which is not considered Combat Logging by Frontier and which will Disconnect you before the Interdiction Succeeds.
Which is another thing. What do you do with the Regular Logout which FD does not Consider Combat Logging ?
4.
The System is Incredible Greasy as you would need to constantly Monitor Hundreds or Potentially Thousands of Ships for their Exact Location and Instance in the Background.
To Avoid that a User of such a Token is Teleported into a Station or Something like that.
And we are not even Talking about what we do when when a Non Horizons Player gets such a Token on a Horizons Player. And the Horizons Player goes down to a Planet.
Mean in all such cases do you just Grey out the Button ??
Sorry Mate.
But this Ridiculous Idea which I never tought you were Serious about.
Is absolutely not Realistic to Implement.
It would only Create a Swamp of Problems and Immersion Breaking Events.