HTC Vive resolution and  focus

Kapow

Kapow
Heavenly-Hammer said:
Again, the scale you see in the Vive is exactly the same in the Rift.

Also, if the performance is bad on your 1080, maybe you need to revise some settings a bit more. The only reason for bad performance on a 1080 is trying to run higher settings than the game can run the Vive smoothly under.

try VR Low + 0.65 + 2.0 + SMAA. Reprojection always on. Should be 90fps on a planet or inside a port, hitch-free. Increase various settings until you can't hold 90fps anymore, then find the spot where you always have it. Keep whatever those settings are.

Alternately, you can force it down to 45fps and find whatever settings keep that mostly hitch-free.

Sucks but hey...nothing you can do about it. Until FDev improves their stuff here or until Valve releases their temporal reprojection solution, it's not going to look as good as it should in the Vive. Given how much better the game feels in my Vive compared to my Rift, it's pretty tragic that the performance isn't there.
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I would agree with it all excluding the statement about the scale in Vive and Oculus being the same. I find Vive substantially different ( at around 15-20% smaller). This might be simply down to the larger FOV, but to me the Avatar, Joystick, Throttle and general surroundings feel considerably Smaller then in Rift - however even in Rift the Avatar feels like a brutally malnourished individual at least it feels the right height while in Vive I can't help but feel like I'm being squashed.
 
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Heavenly-Hammer

Heavenly-Hammer
Kapow said:
I would agree with it all excluding the statement about the scale in Vive and Oculus being the same. I find Vive substantially different ( at around 15-20% smaller). This might be simply down to the larger FOV, but to me the Avatar, Joystick, Throttle and general surroundings feel considerably Smaller then in Rift - however even in Rift the Avatar feels like a brutally malnourished individual at least it feels the right height while in Vive I can't help but feel like I'm being squashed.
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It's all the same on my hardware bro. YMMV.
 

CMDR Spangle

C
BostromNZ said:
I bought a 1080 primarily to brute force SS for ED in the Vive. It's not worth it, it's still jaggy, the scale is still off and the performance is terrible. Don't expect too much.
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Same for me, I bought a Titan X to try and brute force it but whilst it runs better than previously its still feels blurry, stuttering and just not a pleasant experience to play for more than an hour or so. Real shame. I'm packing up Elite. On the plus side I now have a monster gpu to play other games with.
 

Zatoichie

Z
Submitted a ticket again and got a response. I am hopeful that they will get this sorted out soon yet I am just impatient. For now I can deal with muddy textures just not FPS drops so no SS for me (R9 390x). Below is a snip from the response. Have faith and fly dangerously CMDRs
-----------------------------------------
Hi CMDR,

Thanks for getting in touch. I completely empathize with you and I hope I can provide an answer that will allay some of your concerns.

I've just run a search through our internal investigation database and I can tell you that in October alone, we have opened around 30 investigations that involve the Vive in some capacity. Not all will require fixes or improvements, but each and every one will be studied and tested until we reach a conclusion of some kind. And that's just in October.

Suffice to say, we are 100% working on improvements. These things can take time - sometimes, a very long time - and there's not always updates to be made. Sometimes saying "we're still working on it" every week for months on end can look worse than saying nothing at all.

I personally believe that VR is highly subjective experience. I took part in some internal tests here at Frontier, comparing performance of Elite Dangerous on the Rift against the Vive. I found the Rift to be excellent, immersive and clear. I found the Vive to be muddy, blurry and headache inducing. Others in the test swear up and down they experienced the opposite - the Rift was a nauseating, motion-trail filed mess and the Vive was absolutely perfect.

In addition to these subjective experiences, everyone's hardware is different. Even before we strap VR hardware onto a machine, we see all kinds of oddities on a daily basis. Players with underspec machines able to play Horizons on their Intel HD chipset. Top of the line machines with graphical glitches that can't be explained. When we add hardware with complex setup and customisation like hardware, the scope for problems is that much larger. Many of the problems reported that can be handily put in the category of "Vive graphical issue" will have nothing to do others; some will be fixable, some will not. Some will be the fault of the Vive, some of Elite Dangerous, and some of the player's hardware and network connection.

One interesting thing to note is that while I'm currently reading through all our open internal investigations in Vive issues, many players simply have underspec hardware. Far more than we typically see for other issues. I'm sure that accounts for a portion of those affected by Vive issues.

TL;DR: Yes, we're working on improving performance in the Vive. However don't fall into the trap of believing that all of the issues fall under the same umbrella. Those specifically that you mention - muddy textures, FPS drops and stuttering - will all have different causes and different solutions.

Please let me know if you have any further questions. I really hope you and other Vive users don't feel as though you're being left behind or ignored. We're so incredibly proud of our achievements in VR with Elite Dangerous and we want to stay at the forefront. We fully recognise that the only way that's possible is with players like yourself who have invested the time, money and effort into exploring what is essentially a new market.
 

Haitchpeasauce

H
Thank you babypowder84 for raising the ticket with Frontier! I'm glad you received a response and shared it here.

I actually would not mind seeing a simple message on a weekly/fortnightly basis, "We are working on it, the Vive is getting our attention."

However, I don't completely accept the answer about the problem being machine specific only. There are common problems expressed in this thread:

  • The frame rate performance is not up to scratch, even with a high spec machine running an GTX 1080 and a good CPU.
  • The clarity is not up to par with what the Vive is able to deliver, especially with text.
  • The clarity does not improve by increasing the in-game SS and quality settings, and only degrades the frame rate.
  • Only increasing the Steam SS improves clarity, and we need to downsample in-game to compensate. That is, the in-game SS does not work properly.

It's in these areas that I want to see a proper in-depth explanation from Frontier. But even a "we are working on it" would still be nice.
 

BillD

BillD
Well I have some unbiased observations. I have both units (Vive and Rift) and am not biased towards any. I like them both.
I have been playing ED with the rift for months now. And today after demoing some room scale Vive to some friends, I could not be bothered unplugging it to plug the rift back in. So I jumped into the ED Beta using the Vive (after not doing so for months).
There were some immediate differences and I don't think they are Frontiers fault:
- Firstly... for the same HMD SS and Game SS settings I use for the Rift, the Vive clarity is almost the same (slightly larger gaps between pixels) but I can easily read the small text. If I had never used the rift, I would not be any the wiser as to which one was clearer. The rift is slightly clearer but it not chalk and cheese. HOWEVER the Vive drivers are slower. For those same settings there is more Judder and pauses and it was unplayable in stations with some double images and bad lag in stations.
This could be that amazing ASW in the rift, but when I was testing these settings in the rift I was getting 90fps almost everywhere in the oculus drivers. But we can't really blame Frontier if the vive drivers are not as efficient.

- The next thing I noticed was that in the vive (for me) the scale is wrong. It's all a bit smaller that it is in the rift. In the rift everything seems correct. Although slender, the pilot's hands and feet are where I feel they should be and space is well, way, way out there somewhere.
With the Vive, space feels like it is projected on a wall 10 or 20 metres away. On the vive the pilot feels a little smaller.

- In the vive I also have to were my glasses which I do not have to do in the oculus. Very weired.

- The biggest thing I notice is the brightness and beautiful smooth graduations in shading. There is a bad colour banding (posterisation) in the Rift that I find hard to spot on the vive. Oh and the brightness in the Vive, oh man, coming out of Hyperspace to those bright suns the first few times, actually made me squint. Totally awesome!
And the galaxy and glows looks so much better on the vive. My Rift shows obvious banding where some things should fade to black.
I also don't notice any black smearing on the Vive like I do on the rift.

So while I can make the Vive look better (colour wise) and as good clarity wise (as long as I wear my glasses), and I would so much prefer to use the vive, it is unplayable at the same graphics settings as the Vive engine is just not as efficient as the oculus engine which also has superior ASW or ATW.

I am not sure how this can be Frontiers fault.
 

BillD

BillD
Kapow said:
Out of interest - What is your IPD ?
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I have the same issue. my IPD is 59.7 so its possible that thr fact that the IPD on the vive does not go small enough contributes. I have seen people post that IPD has no affect on scale and that does not seem the be the case. If I sit in my anaconda and sweep the IPD I can see aspect ratios changing and the bow of the ship changes shape. Also I have a friend with a HUGE head (IPD up in the mid 70's) If I wear his rift without adjusting it, things are very very small.
 
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Full_Ninja

F
BillD said:
HOWEVER the Vive drivers are slower. For those same settings there is more Judder and pauses and it was unplayable in stations with some double images and bad lag in stations.
This could be that amazing ASW in the rift, but when I was testing these settings in the rift I was getting 90fps almost everywhere in the oculus drivers. But we can't really blame Frontier if the vive drivers are not as efficient.
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I hope this can be implemented and helps http://sensics.com/sensics-empowers...-asynchronous-time-warping-capabilities-osvr/
 

Kapow

Kapow
My IPD is 65, so almost at a norm of 64, yet I can see substantial difference between Rift and Vive in Scale. By substantial I mean more then 10%
 

klimaschreck

klimaschreck
Yesterday I played the beta and I drove around in my SRV. Suddenly I looked at my avatars arms and felt kind of weird. They did seem to be bigger then in the ship. Actually everything seemed to be the right scale, even the legs. I am on a VIVE. Can anybody confirm this? Ship was an AspX.
 

Tiayviel

Tiayviel
From the current live stream:

Braben/Q - "Can I say anything about HTC Vive visuals?"
Braben/A - "(undernose) that is a massive undertaking-- (loud) speaking generally about VR, I mean obviously it's a great thing, the experience is lovely. If people who haven't tried it - you should do. There all sorts of, dealing with the updates and all, which I don't want to go into the details, but people will know that on HT Vive and the Oculus Rift it's quite an experience. It's a continual challenge for us, making sure things work and the future features as well."

Guess only place we can currently put our faith in is the upcoming asynchronous reprojection thing - http://uploadvr.com/valve-atw-reprojection-oculus/ for those who missed it.
 

Craith

Volunteer Moderator
Craith
OMG ... 2.2 AND Asynchronous Reprojection AND Civil War in my home system AND a few days off come Friday ... is it Christmas already?
 

Tiayviel

Tiayviel
Definite improvement, trumps the old reprojection a lot. Undust your Elite+Vive setup and try it!
Make sure to reset rendertargetmultiplier in the steamvr config file - so you don't have weird issues.

Also to those with scaling issues - I read people complain about it so much that I started seeing what they mean with the kid-sized human.
So I tested around and what I found is that it's severely linked to your position when pressing the HMD position reset button.

Try it - sit straight, reset HMD button, look at body. Then push your head down while looking forward, reset, straighten up again - human will be tiny.
While sitting, stretch your head up, reset HMD orientation, slump back down - human will look adult. Let me know if you see the difference!
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Pardon me while I celebrate for a few minutes:

[video=youtube;3GwjfUFyY6M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M[/video]

SteamVR beta, in a station, with VR set to high, and I have no judder, not feeling sick, and everything is working well.
 
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