Hyperspace Jump within system?

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yeah, about 5 mins of dead time, but it's the starter water torture end of the scale (with Hutton being the water boarding )

I notice you're completely ignoring the 140,000 Ls and 161,412 Ls examples...



I'm not talking about optional redirects, I'm talking about missions that don't reveal the destination until the mission is underway.

And I've literally just given you some examples of bespoke game events and locations which are placed long distances away.



True, but as long as this game holds promise in other areas I'll continue to constructively criticise the bits I don't like ¯\(ツ)/¯

That's fine. I'm just against hyperjumps to in system destinations. Decisions, choices and consideration still need to be there in my view. Remove those and for me it dumbs the game down.

 

[nanite2000]

You should read my last post on the other Topic talking about this. Please try to counter it.

We've already countered it so many times now, we're bored of repeating ourselves. Evidently you're not.

I still find my point still holds true. If you find a mission that Too Far Then why not Discard. Just like Any hard Combat Mission that you find you are not skilled or your ship is not fit to do. Or finding out doing a trade run of 6000 tons of cargo might take too long to do. Or looking at a location in the Explored system and choosing not to go to that location because the distance is too far. Or that Passenger mission you where so hipped going to for 50,000 LY or more.

Yes, we already know all that. It doesn't invalidate the OP's request in any way.

You complain about the Hyperspace jump screen. (People forget they can mix exploration into it) Each in them self has the same issue. But they also have the same solution. If you don't feel like you can do it. Then why do it?

If you don't already understand after being told dozens of times, then I think it's beyond your capacity to ever understand.

I can look at each one of these and see a reason for doing them or not. But it comes down to users Choice and an easy solution to a problem. There will be a few rare cases Where distance is forced on you just like some Combat missions for Thargoid or Guardian sites, Engineering is forced on you. But Even then you have a choice not doing them.

Yes, we already know all that. It doesn't invalidate the OP's request in any way.

The other question why do a few players ignore key features of the game instead of reading the mission or research them by using galaxy map. They follow the Click and accept all mission then complain about the distance later. Or the very few mission that doesn't give you any real detail. The few players will whine when they find out it too far and they avoid the Fact they do have a solution. DISCARD.

Yes, we already know all that. It doesn't invalidate the OP's request in any way.

If everything had an easy Button like the instant travel I will not be playing Elite Dangerous because in my Eyes it would be called Elite easy.

Travelling long distances in SuperCruise is not hard - it's just time consuming and boring. We're not complaining about it being hard. We never have. We are not asking for an easy button because it's not hard. Travelling in SuperCruise is already easy, not hard. Hard is the opposite of easy, and SuperCruise is not hard. We know it's not hard. We are not asking for it to be made easy.

So, right now now it can accurately be called 'Elite Slow, Boring, and Easy'.

You have fundamentally misunderstood what the OP is asking for. He is not asking to make it easy because it was never hard in the first place. He is asking for it to be made less slow and boring. Slow and boring are not the same as 'hard'.

So the question Becomes when does lack of common sense end and common Sense begin?

From what I understand of your limited world view, I think I can see why this must be such a hard question for you.

Remember we have 400,000,000,000 systems caters to both our play style. We also have 65,000 stations suited for both our likes. But one side wants a short cut.

You mean like the shortcut you took to [...check's Lestat's signature...] 'Colonia in 107 Jumps'?

Have you ever notice when you point out these facts. They avoid it like a plague.

Have you ever noticed how you have never once answered my question of 'What do we win when we press the I Win button'?

Also, why are you OK with taking a shortcut to Colonia, but not other players taking a shortcut to distant stars?

Then stop doing stuff that makes you suffer and start making sound choices.

Is there an echo in here...?

No what I am pointing out is players like your self needs to start using common sense gameplay.
My post 163 points a lot of different problems someone could have with different types of mission or Exploration. But if players use common sense. They could avoid any issue from Distance, Hard Combat, Large Trade Hauls, Exploration, and Passenger missions and each has a solution and it easy as Discard a mission or jump to another system depending on what you are doing.

Yes, we already know all that. It doesn't invalidate the OP's request in any way.

 

[Atol]

But I will hit 3 forum ideas at once.

To shorten MEANINGLESS, UNENGAGING and BORING travel time.

Interdiction mechanism can still be possible by

1. Reducing the accuracy of the in-system jump,
   • that is to jump to a certain distance (in ls) from destination, base on the frame shrift drive rating
2. Setting a minimum jump range

also allows no obstacles in the jump path, of course.

EDIT 2:
One more proposed solution:
Add “SC boost”
Which is to allow player to boost the speed when it reach a certain speed, let say 1000c, when boost activated, ship move at drastically higher speed than the usual top speed but reducing the rate of pitch and yaw.
This could avoid increasing the difficulty of interdiction in popular area (where pvp and piracy occurs more frequently, obviously, since speed this high is hardly reached in short distance, which CMDR lestat has pointed out the distance from the majority of the stations to their respective Stars is short.
This way short journeys would remain the same while long journeys can be effectively shorten, the changes needed to be brought to the existing mechanism is minimum, comparing to other suggestions


EDIT 1:
Suggestions by other CMDRs:

• limit in-system jumps among major stellar objects
• choose major stellar objects other than the main star to jump to before engaging hyperspace jump

Thanks to CMDR nanite2000 here are the links to the existing threads regarding the same/similar suggestion

• https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/in-system-jumps.424339/
• https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/in-system-jumps.423725/

Following on from that other thread, I'd like to propose a means to allow in-system jumps that will reduce those extremely long waits between distant stars within the same system.

Instead of waiting anywhere between 15 mins to 2 hours doing nothing more than just staring at the screen with literally nothing else to do, why dont we shorten the time and give the pilot something to do during that time.

I propose a fuel injector unit that would occupy an optional internal slot. When activated, it starts a mini game similar to the interdiction mini-game:

• The more you keep your ship centred on target, the faster you go, and the less damage that is incurred by your ship's FSD drive.
• If you go off-target, you slow down, and take more drive damage. If you go too far off-target you'd be kicked out of SuperCruise. Just like losing the interdiction mini-game, your drive would need to cool down, and your hull and FSD will have taken some damage.
• The mini-game could last up to a maximum length of time to represent your finite supply of injector fuel, thereby ensuring a maximum possible distance coverage (perhaps 200,000 Ls?).
• Alternatively, the longer keep the mini-game going, the harder it gets, until you either decide to drop out gracefully, or get kicked out with associated consequences (as described above).
• The injector module would carry a fixed supply of injections, and would weigh your ship down (sacrificing overall jump range for SuperCruise speed). Larger injector modules can take you further on a single injection, but would also weigh more.
• Injector fuel can be re-stocked at StarPorts (very expensive), or with a combination of high-grade materials (time consuming).
• Injection can only be instigated by targeting a body with sufficient mass/radiation (i.e. a star).

To prevent the module giving players an unfair advantage against pirates, traders, and passenger liners, I would suggest implementing one or more of the following limitations:

• The module may only be activated once it is out of a star's gravity well, meaning you'd have to travel a minimum distance away form the primary star before it can be engaged.
• The module would only be available for distances above a minimum value (e.g. 10,000 Ls), meaning you wouldn't be able to use it to jump smaller distances.
• The module can not be activated/engaged during interdiction, exactly like the FSD drive does now.
• The module will cause drive damage. How much damage you take depends on how well, or how long you use the drive (see details above).

Any of those options would give other players ample opportunity to interdict a ship with such a module while in SuperCruise.

okay, so i'm new to the forums, but i am not new to this game.
first of all, i love elite dangerous. it brings out the boy in me who used to always wanted to go out into space.
and many people who play this game has many, and often, valid reasons or wants for changes in this game.

i have none of these. i know all too well that developing in a game like this would be a monumental task. creating new content must be a nightmare for frontier devs.

but i want to make a discussion (although i know many people would have before me, and more after too) make a discussion about in-system jumps.

in the time i am writing this, i have found a binary star system where the other sytem is 578,900 light seconds away. usually when exploring, you absolutely would not go to that system, because that's ridiculous. but this system i have went to basically has 7 water planets, and multiple ones i assume to be like earth, even better, noone has ever discovered it.

now i'm a huge discovery . i like my name on things. especially on a special system like this.
but to supercruise 590k light seconds from the parent star to this one, and then even further to scan all the planets i want, my god it's tedious. incredibly tedious. 12 minutes in and i've barely did 200k of it in my asp.

what i dont get is why the dev's havent implemented in system jumps, or atleast boosted jumps, where you can jump lets say 100k light seconds ONLY if you were targetting a star. that way it would only take me 2 minutes to do 5 or so jumps then i supercruise the last 90k, which is acceptable.
it wouldnt be very hard to implement because the jumping mechanic is in the game, the exploration is very much centred on jumping from one system to another. maybe its not that simple, after all, the jump system only jumps you to parent stars, but atleast if you target a star, why cant i supercruise at 10x speed untill <100k light seconds to only stars?

it would make much sense too, because then you couldnt use that in any other instance, to only towards stars to within 100k light seconds, and save much time. so, so , so much time.

many people have many gripes with this game, mine is this, and that finding other players who want to play together also is a nightmare. none of my friends play this game, they call me a nerd haha, but they dont know how good elite is.

but i digress.

devs,
get on this. i dont want to do a 25 minute supercruise run just so i can get my name on the almost perfect system to discover.
i typed all this and im still 150k out...
it would be such a quality of life change for explorers.
thoughts?

Sorry I not going to post on 3 terrible ideas. I play this game because it a good Space Sim and not some dumb down arcade type game with jump gates or worm holes or some type of short cut. There a reason why I avoid other type of games. I am more of a Role player. So Distance plays in a factor into my game style. Distance is a player choice. Having a short cut eliminates that choice for all of us.

See you can say you don't have to use them. The problem with this is the players like me would be left behind while the rest of you will keep passing me in making credits. So Jump gate would make it unfair for players who like how the game is setup right now.

 

[lun0619]

But I will hit 3 forum ideas at once.


Sorry I not going to post on 3 terrible ideas. I play this game because it a good Space Sim and not some dumb down arcade type game with jump gates or worm holes or some type of short cut. There a reason why I avoid other type of games. I am more of a Role player. So Distance plays in a factor into my game style. Distance is a player choice. Having a short cut eliminates that choice for all of us.

See you can say you don't have to use them. The problem with this is the players like me would be left behind while the rest of you will keep passing me in making credits. So Jump gate would make it unfair for players who like how the game is setup right now.

You know you JUMP to another system right?

The thing here is the logic is inconsistent: you dislike "jump gate" and prefer long travelling time, but you are okay with hyperjump. So at what point does a game mechanism become "Arcade"? Why don't we all just SC for years from Sol to Alpha Centauri to feel the iMmErShUn?

At least to me is that if Hyperjump amongst systems can be achieved in this game and is justified, why not apply it to a smaller scale?

Hell, we have made up tech and even alien races. Didn't see many complaints about it

PLEASE at least give a definition on "at what point the game becomes arcade"

 

[Atol]

You know you JUMP to another system right?

The thing here is the logic is inconsistent: you dislike "jump gate" and prefer long travelling time, but you are okay with hyperjump. So at what point does a game mechanism become "Arcade"? Why don't we all just SC for years from Sol to Alpha Centauri to feel the iMmErShUn?

At least to me is that if Hyperjump amongst systems can be achieved in this game and is justified, why not apply it to a smaller scale?

Hell, we have made up tech and even alien races. Didn't see many complaints about it

PLEASE at least give a definition on "at what point the game becomes arcade"

Well I Played the older Elite games. Hyper jump or Witch space is common so in it self It part of my Role playing. It also Great when I am reading Elite Dangerous Books. Because they help me get some type of back story or a feel of Role playing.

Now you ask when dose a game become a Arcade. For me Elite Dangerous more a Simulator which I hope they add Meg boots and walking on ships so I could see my self Walking around my Beluga talking to my passengers. Or be able Land on a planet and to capture strange life forms or farm plants in my Type 9 and land at a Enclosed Zoo or Hydroponics lab that working to Terraforming a planet and transport plants and Animals.

What Funny is Elite in 1984 we communicated with Alien Races and conducted trades Plus with what 8 Galaxies that had 256 systems each. We also had the Thargoids back then. I think Drew Wagar made a story to make all 8 galaxy into only human race so it Fit the Only Human Race in Elite Dangerous. I could be wrong it could have been someone else. But it was a good story.

made a story why we don't have Alien Races.

So the way you sound lun0619 you seem to be pretty new to Elite game. I took my time reading the posts here. Many people have Valid reason why this game should not be turn into a arcade type game and I have to agree with them 100%. Maybe what you should do is take your time to read their posts.

 

[lun0619]

Well I Played the older Elite games. Hyper jump or Witch space is common so in it self It part of my Role playing. It also Great when I am reading Elite Dangerous Books. Because they help me get some type of back story or a feel of Role playing.

Now you ask when dose a game become a Arcade. For me Elite Dangerous more a Simulator which I hope they add Meg boots and walking on ships so I could see my self Walking around my Beluga talking to my passengers. Or be able Land on a planet and to capture strange life forms or farm plants in my Type 9 and land at a Enclosed Zoo or Hydroponics lab that working to Terraforming a planet and transport plants and Animals.

What Funny is Elite in 1984 we communicated with Alien Races and conducted trades Plus with what 8 Galaxies that had 256 systems each. We also had the Thargoids back then. I think Drew Wagar made a story to make all 8 galaxy into only human race so it Fit the Only Human Race in Elite Dangerous. I could be wrong it could have been someone else. But it was a good story.

made a story why we don't have Alien Races.

So the way you sound lun0619 you seem to be pretty new to Elite game. I took my time reading the posts here. Many people have Valid reason why this game should not be turn into a arcade type game and I have to agree with them 100%. Maybe what you should do is take your time to read their posts.

1. Suggestions proposed by me and other players are optional, which means you can still travel in SC for tens of minutes, like the docking computer and supercruise assist
2. While clearly by your definition of simulation is the resemblance to the original Elite, I don't see how adding these new mechanisms could break the game (things can be developed, not stuck in a setting of an old game)
3. The playtime in Elite of a proposer does not invalidate its suggestions
4. If you are referring other's opinion please also give the link to those threats

And please, do not impose your opinion on others, especial when we are trying to make minimum changes and keep it optional

The whole situation is like a group of people is asking for a shoe company to invent shoes for running, but then another group of people says something like "No that would make running easy" or "No this is not necessary because I don't run, and I prefer walking slowly" or "This is not how we used to run", while clearly, they can wear whatever shoes they like.
Why forcing others to experience the way you do with the game?
The same situation here we are simply asking for a new mechanism to shorten the NOT ENGAGING gameplay, we did not ask all people to use the mechanism. So if you don't think you need it, leave it; unless it is game breaking, then justify your opinion. You can have all the immersion you want by ignoring that part of the gameplay, but stopping others from having that is just selfish in a weird way.

 

[Atol]

And please, do not impose your opinion on others, especial when we are trying to make minimum changes and keep it optional

Minimal LOL. It more like ruin my game style playing a Simulator and as Role player. But I guess you arcade type players don't care about my view like you don't care about other people views. Such a shame.

Maybe Lun0619 you should read the little dispute nanite2000 had with Robert Maynard who a Mod On your First two pages. So please re read it.

Then there’s no need for you to continue participating in this thread then, right?

Why ever not?

It's not as if suggestions threads should only contain posts supportive of the proposal, is it?

Well, if he’s already made up his mind that the current gameplay mechanic is perfect and can not be improved upon, and is just going to end up repeating that mantra, then I don’t see how that contributes to the discussion.

It would just be wasting everyone’s time (including his own).

I mean, technically there’s no forum rule against someone participating in threads where they are just repeating themselves, but it doesn’t really add anything to the discussion.

Besides, he already said it himself - he can’t help the OP.

Expressing one's opinion of a proposal, whether in support or opposition is quite reasonable.

One player's "improvement" may not be seen in quite the same light by other players - it's quite subjective.

True. And if that player is open to having a discussion and potentially having his mind changed, then I don’t have a problem with it.

Being open to having one's mind changed is not a requirement.

... especially in the face of "I want"....

 

[lun0619]

Minimal LOL. It more like ruin my game style playing a Simulator and as Role player. But I guess you arcade type players don't care about my view like you don't care about other people views. Such a shame.

Maybe Lun0619 you should read the little dispute nanite2000 had with Robert Maynard who a Mod On your First two pages. So please re read it.

How does it ruin your game style? Just IGNORE it!!!!!
Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean others don't either, YOU are the one who is being selfish when there's a way for you to avoid that particular function.
We did not ask you to change with us and to agree with us but YOU are the one who does not allow others to change themselves
In this issue, you have the options to compromise simply by ignoring it like you have the choice of not using SC assist, but no, everyone who thinks else with different play styles must be limited to your desire.
With your attitude like this, I don't see there is anything else worth discussing WITH YOU

Using the same running shoe analogy, it is like you are banning the sales of running shoes simply because you do not approve running or the running shoes even when you have the choice not to use them, so everyone else must not enjoy the new shoes. Who the hell do you think your are?

now,
See I stare at the SC dark screen for 10 minutes I am hardcore yay!

 

[nanite2000]

Minimal LOL. It more like ruin my game style playing a Simulator and as Role player. But I guess you arcade type players don't care about my view like you don't care about other people views. Such a shame.

Maybe Lun0619 you should read the little dispute nanite2000 had with Robert Maynard who a Mod On your First two pages. So please re read it.

You missed my final response in my conversation with the mod:

Umm...the OP didn’t say “I want...”.

However, I see his post was edited by a moderator, so maybe I missed it.

Anyway, semantics - it’s not worth arguing over. Peace.

The OP was making a suggestion in the Suggestions thread on how to make Super Cruise less slow and boring, which he is perfectly entitled to do. Just as you're perfectly entitled to say you don't like the idea.

Where your objections are failing to win people over is when you make comments like this:

Minimal LOL. It more like ruin my game style playing a Simulator and as Role player. But I guess you arcade type players don't care about my view like you don't care about other people views. Such a shame.

Which, behind the apparent sarcasm, suggests you think you are somehow better than the OP because you see yourself as a 'a Simulator and as Role player', and you have reduced all 'arcade type players' into a homogeneous group of players who apparently don't care about your play style.

Also, comments like this don't help either:

So the way you sound lun0619 you seem to be pretty new to Elite game. I took my time reading the posts here. Many people have Valid reason why this game should not be turn into a arcade type game and I have to agree with them 100%. Maybe what you should do is take your time to read their posts.

As if to imply the OP's suggestions should be dismissed because he apparently didn't take the 'time reading the posts here' (which you have absolutely no proof of, by the way). And if you had taken the time to read the posts here, you would have noticed that suggestions to improve the gameplay of SuperCruise is one of the most requested/repeated topics in the Suggestions forum and so clearly there is a desire to improve it.

And since you value reading and experience so highly, I can tell you I'm an original Elite 1984 player, through to Frontier: Elite II, and First Encounters, and most of the reading material that comes with it. The game has evolved over that time, and will continue to evolve. The current implementation of Elite: Dangerous is not static - it also evolves, and must evolve to keep up with other upcoming challengers in the open world/space genre.

I have also read and participated in many many posts on this topic, and I disagree with your position. I think Super Cruise can be improved, and it can be done in a way that is not necessarily detrimental to players like yourself who like it the way it is now.

So dismissing other posters just because you don't think they are as well-read, or you don't think they play the game the 'right' way, in no way invalidates their suggestion.

 

[lun0619]

Minimal LOL. It more like ruin my game style playing a Simulator and as Role player. But I guess you arcade type players don't care about my view like you don't care about other people views. Such a shame.

Oh right I forgot to ask: How does shortening SC for long distance travel break your immersion?
and you still did not answer me at what length of travel time would the game become arcade

Because you see, the shortest distance between two star systems is 50.9ls
(from: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/anyone-know-the-shortest-jump-between-systems.389095/)
If hyperjump can cover such a short distance, which means in-system jump is possible (however we are not advocating instant point to point jumping, on the contrary, some suggested limiting in-system jumping to between stars in a system), how would you refute suggestions made in this thread?