I dont get why everyone thinks Ellite is such a grind

Your only substantive point seems to be "If you don't like it, don't spend as much time doing it".

Again, for the umpteenth time, it doesn't matter whether you do the grindy stuff in small nibbles or take a big bite.
You will still, ultimately, spend exactly the same amount of time doing dull, repetitive things.

As JB pointed out, the only reason to do this stuff at all is as a means to some other end - whether that's to optimise a ship for exploration, trading, combat or whatever - so nibbling away at it purely to avoid feeling like it's a grind means that it's going to be proportionally longer before you can actually do the thing you want to do.

That pretty much.

For some activities, ED is grind hard now or play normally for months or give up

Simple stuff : upgrading a vette to G5 is ~1800 materials. If one assume one usefull material pickup every 3 minutes, it's 30h of time. Yup. Yucky.

As for the don't like it, don't play it : doing it alright, there are a lot of games better constructed than ED. So I cut out 70-80% of ED content off, and playtime by 90%.

It's conceptually easy to fix really : replace easy and time consuming tasks by skill vs reward tasks.
 
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But what gameplay do you get when in a cutter or corvette that I can't do in my Cobra? Basically you do pretty much the exact same stuff, just more of it.

"If you don't like it, don't do it"

Repetition in games is something that is never going to go away. Grind is when that repetition becomes boring. If you find the gameplay before getting a cutter/corvette boring I really fail to see it getting any better after getting one of those ships as the gameplay is still going to be pretty much the same.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" (again).

Just as a bit of a personal challenge, maybe you could try avoiding any comment which can be distilled down to "if you don't like it, don't do it" because they don't add much to the discussion and they aren't useful to anybody who wants things which DO require grind in order to obtain them?
 
That pretty much.

For some activities, ED is grind hard now or play normally for months or give up

Simple stuff : upgrading a vette to G5 is ~1800 materials. If one assume one usefull material pickup every 3 minutes, it's 30h of time. Yup. Yucky.

Took me over three years to get a python, which I hadly ever use now. But the main thing for me is that I have had a huge amount of fun getting that python. To me, that is all that is important. I think modern games have made people so goal orientated the they can't think in any other way. Like a form of indoctrination.

I want an Anaconda so I must get it ASAP otherwise I won't enjoy the game otherwise. Sure you won't enjoy the game because you are grinding out the most efficient way to get the credits to get that Anaconda. I am not surprised people suffer from burnout. I am far from suffering from burnout as I have so much more to explore in the game and places to go and visit, because I don't grind for anything and just had fun and got materials on the way.
 
Or maybe I and others want them to enjoy the game as much as we do. I hate grind mechanics and it was the main reason why I stopped playing LOTRO. I have heard that it has got better since the game left turbine, but not sure I can continue with it.

In ED, I do not need to grind for anything as everything that I get is down to personal choice. I don't need a cutter/corvette to play any part of the game. A Cobra does it all perfectly fine. Of course I do have other ships, it's what I spend the credits on that I accrue over time.

I got a FGS not that long ago. I will be selling it as I don't like it much. Hoping that the Krait is better when it is released as I like a SLF. But at the end of the day it's all down to choice and what you want and what you want to do.

If you want your engineered modules ASAP, then go ahead and grind for them, but that is a choice that the game has never forced on to you. Personally I will engineer my modules the slow way and have fun on the way.

To me ED is the least grindy game I have ever played.

I doubt it. It comes down mostly to dismissing the dissent and self assuring that it's not been a bad investment into playing ED. So it's rather about shutting up those who don't like the state of the game.
I mean, just look at your own post - while you start out with a helpful tone you pretty much end up fortifying your own view, which is fine - but it has nothing to do with helping people or understanding "the other side".
 
It's conceptually easy to fix really : replace easy and time consuming tasks by skill vs reward tasks.

Exactly.

Have you ever visited places like Pirates Cove, or some of the orbital shipyards and medical facilities?

They're massive facilities with multiple modules and internal passageways.

Would it really be so difficult to create some kind of mechanic whereby, once you're allied with an engineer, you can pin a blueprint and the engineer will send you tip-offs once in a while that provide the locations of "caches" of mat's that are required for your pinned blueprints?

You'd get a tip-off telling you, for example, that a group of pirates had captures a load of Biotech Conductors and were taking them back to their base.
If you were quick, you might be able to intercept them en-route, destroy the ships and snaffle the cargo.
Otherwise you'd have to fly to the Pirates Cove, fly inside the facility and scoop the cargo from there, taking fire from the pirates and the station as a result.

Alternatively, maybe the tip-off would tell you that a shipyard has taken delivery of Imperial Shielding or CD Composites.
Similar thing; Fly inside the facility and steal stuff.

Maybe surface bases could provide similar things too?
Tip-off tells you that a certain installation is experimenting with DWEs.
Go there, cause mayhem, escape with, say, 20 DWEs from every terminal you can scan.

Implementing something like that would create a reason for the engineers to actually have rank again, would provide a purpose for a lot of currently under-utilized game assets and (most importantly) would create diverse gameplay and give people alternatives for locating mat's.
 
"If you don't like it, don't do it"



"If you don't like it, don't do it" (again).

Again that is not what I am saying. Stop making stuff up so you can shut down my opinion.

Just as a bit of a personal challenge, maybe you could try avoiding any comment which can be distilled down to "if you don't like it, don't do it" because they don't add much to the discussion and they aren't useful to anybody who wants things which DO require grind in order to obtain them?
Your skills of comprehension are pretty low as I am bang on target with the discussion. Maybe you should look and see what the thread is about first.

In ED you can have both, but can't you seem to understand this. If you want the stuff ASAP, you can grind for it. If you are not bothered, you do not have to. It is that simple, and just because you stuggle to understand this, is not my issue, but yours.

I can grind out mechanics to get an engineered module if I want to and have a boring time getting it. But I prefer to enjoy my playtime and get mats far more gradually. I have not said if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I am saying if you don't enjoy the way you are playing the game, maybe try to play in a different way that you do enjoy. But at the end of the day, the choice is yours. I will play the game that I find enjoyable, therefore, not a grind.
 
Took me over three years to get a python, which I hadly ever use now. But the main thing for me is that I have had a huge amount of fun getting that python. To me, that is all that is important. I think modern games have made people so goal orientated the they can't think in any other way. Like a form of indoctrination.

I want an Anaconda so I must get it ASAP otherwise I won't enjoy the game otherwise. Sure you won't enjoy the game because you are grinding out the most efficient way to get the credits to get that Anaconda. I am not surprised people suffer from burnout. I am far from suffering from burnout as I have so much more to explore in the game and places to go and visit, because I don't grind for anything and just had fun and got materials on the way.

Well, you see Max, some people would like to have a big3 anti-thargoid ship fitted and engineered before the thargoid war ends. Just sayin'

I get it that you enjoy very slow progression in terms of ship unlocks. Other players enjoy being able to switch between activities quickly and in a low friction manner.

I too enjoyed slow progression till the python, that I flew for months. Then I looked at the conda and other stuff, looked at the cost, scaled time from what it took me with the python
and decided to cheese the new Sirius exploration bonus as hard as I could. Because bulk trading, rare trading, bounty barrel shooting where done for me (I grew bored with them).
Racing, PvP, BGS and planetary nebula mapping was what I was looking to do at the time. All of those are really low profit activities, or even at loss.

I.e. getting credits was getting in the way of fun. So I cheesed. If I couldn't, I would have just dropped the ED ball.

IMO your "don't like it, don't do it" moto is a great way to lose players when they face a time sink wall in front of the fun part.
 
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I doubt it. It comes down mostly to dismissing the dissent and self assuring that it's not been a bad investment into playing ED. So it's rather about shutting up those who don't like the state of the game.
The only reason why I fortify it is that as soon as I have a different opinon I get jumped on so they can say my opinion means nothing.

I mean, just look at your own post - while you start out with a helpful tone you pretty much end up fortifying your own view, which is fine - but it has nothing to do with helping people or understanding "the other side".
Oh, I understand the otherside perfectly fine. I did the whole LOTRO game for a long time and know all about grind and forced grind.
 
Your skills of comprehension are pretty low as I am bang on target with the discussion. Maybe you should look and see what the thread is about first.

In ED you can have both, but can't you seem to understand this.

If you're "bang on target" with your opinion, it should be easy for you to explain how I can have both without grind.

Let's use SilentFlame's Corvette as a case-study.

Tell me how he can achieve the ship he wants without grinding for it.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" doesn't help because he wants his modded Corvette but he just isn't looking forward to what he has to do to get it.
"If you don't like it, don't do so much of it" doesn't help because splitting up the grind into smaller chunks just means you're doing exactly the same amount of dull, repetitive, grind over a longer period.

So, what else have you got?
 
Exactly.

Have you ever visited places like Pirates Cove, or some of the orbital shipyards and medical facilities?

They're massive facilities with multiple modules and internal passageways.

Would it really be so difficult to create some kind of mechanic whereby, once you're allied with an engineer, you can pin a blueprint and the engineer will send you tip-offs once in a while that provide the locations of "caches" of mat's that are required for your pinned blueprints?

You'd get a tip-off telling you, for example, that a group of pirates had captures a load of Biotech Conductors and were taking them back to their base.
If you were quick, you might be able to intercept them en-route, destroy the ships and snaffle the cargo.
Otherwise you'd have to fly to the Pirates Cove, fly inside the facility and scoop the cargo from there, taking fire from the pirates and the station as a result.

Alternatively, maybe the tip-off would tell you that a shipyard has taken delivery of Imperial Shielding or CD Composites.
Similar thing; Fly inside the facility and steal stuff.

Maybe surface bases could provide similar things too?
Tip-off tells you that a certain installation is experimenting with DWEs.
Go there, cause mayhem, escape with, say, 20 DWEs from every terminal you can scan.

Implementing something like that would create a reason for the engineers to actually have rank again, would provide a purpose for a lot of currently under-utilized game assets and (most importantly) would create diverse gameplay and give people alternatives for locating mat's.

All sound like good ideas. I have talked about similar things.

People that grind will still grind, not matter what and probably complain about it regardless. This is what I am really trying to get at. For people like you and me, this mechanic would be great. Not so different to the Mega ship interactions but connected to a mission system.

I am all up for more interesting scenarios, but saying that there is only grind at the moment is just not true. You can get passanger missions to some great places on planet surfaces that will reward you with some nice material drops as well. You can break up the play so it doesn't feel repetative. It isn't easy though as you have to watch yourself as it can be easy to fall into a pattern of doing stuff.

If you're "bang on target" with your opinion, it should be easy for you to explain how I can have both without grind.

Let's use SilentFlame's Corvette as a case-study.

Tell me how he can achieve the ship he wants without grinding for it.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" doesn't help because he wants his modded Corvette but he just isn't looking forward to what he has to do to get it.
"If you don't like it, don't do so much of it" doesn't help because splitting up the grind into smaller chunks just means you're doing exactly the same amount of dull, repetitive, grind over a longer period.

So, what else have you got?

He can get it without grinding, it will just take a lot longer, that is all. This is what I have been saying all along. You don't have to grind for anything, I will just take a lot longer to achieve your goals.

I am not saying, if you don't like it, don't do it. What part of that do you not understand.
 
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People that grind will still grind, not matter what and probably complain about it regardless. This is what I am really trying to get at.

I'll grant you that there'll always be people who moan, regardless of how much easier things get.

The real issue (IMO, at least) is that we've currently got the choice of either doing dull stuff to get what we want or... not doing dull stuff and not getting what we want.

If there were alternative methods of getting stuff it'd go a long way to negating the argument that you're forced to do dull stuff.
Make the alternatives really, really challenging if they must be (perhaps forcing people to wing-up to achieve them) but give people choices.

He can get it without grinding, it will just take a lot longer, that is all. This is what I have been saying all along. You don't have to grind for anything, I will just take a lot longer to achieve your goals.

I am not saying, if you don't like it, don't do it. What part of that do you not understand.

That's option B; "If you don't like it, don't do so much of it"

I asked what else have you got?

What part of that do you not understand?
 
Exactly.

Have you ever visited places like Pirates Cove, or some of the orbital shipyards and medical facilities?

They're massive facilities with multiple modules and internal passageways.

Would it really be so difficult to create some kind of mechanic whereby, once you're allied with an engineer, you can pin a blueprint and the engineer will send you tip-offs once in a while that provide the locations of "caches" of mat's that are required for your pinned blueprints?

You'd get a tip-off telling you, for example, that a group of pirates had captures a load of Biotech Conductors and were taking them back to their base.
If you were quick, you might be able to intercept them en-route, destroy the ships and snaffle the cargo.
Otherwise you'd have to fly to the Pirates Cove, fly inside the facility and scoop the cargo from there, taking fire from the pirates and the station as a result.

Alternatively, maybe the tip-off would tell you that a shipyard has taken delivery of Imperial Shielding or CD Composites.
Similar thing; Fly inside the facility and steal stuff.

Maybe surface bases could provide similar things too?
Tip-off tells you that a certain installation is experimenting with DWEs.
Go there, cause mayhem, escape with, say, 20 DWEs from every terminal you can scan.

Implementing something like that would create a reason for the engineers to actually have rank again, would provide a purpose for a lot of currently under-utilized game assets and (most importantly) would create diverse gameplay and give people alternatives for locating mat's.

On first impressions at least, this is a really good idea.

I've always been of the view that part of the purpose of some of the Engineers unlock requirements was to nudge players in the direction of things they might not otherwise notice or get involved in. Can't say that was definitely an FD objective of course, but if it is then your suggestion would tie in nicely and support it. There's certainly a lot of assets out there that people don't necessarily get exposed to. Multiple birds with one stone.

It fits nicely with the lore and nature of the Engineers and fleshes out their characters in-game too.

Probably needs a bit of working through in terms of how to keep it working in the Engineer tip off way without it becoming either another source of complaints about RNG or a set of known places that people learn about out-of-game, but that's the detail.

Great suggestion!
 
This game is a grind, there's no two ways about it. And i'll give you an example of grind that i face to engineer one ship.
So i'm building a combat corevette and i want to engineer it head to toe. Now without going into detail about what i'm modifying, here is the total list of materials i need to hunt down to do it.
NOTE: Based on my previous engineering experience i've found that grinding for 5 rolls per grade is the average amount i need to max it out.

05 x Abnormal Compact Emissions Data
05 x Adaptive Encryptors Capture
05 x Anamalous Bulk Scan Data
20 x Antimony
13 x Arsenic
15 x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
05 x Atypical Encryption Archives
20 x Biotech Conductors
16 x Cadmium
05 x Chemical Distillery
10 x Chemical Manipulators
10 x Chemical Processors
05 x Chemical Storage Units
05 x Chromium
05 x Classified Scan Databanks
10 x Classified Scan Fragment
05 x Compact Composites
01 x Compound Shielding
65 x Conductive Ceramics
70 x Conductive Components
20 x Conductive Polymers
05 x Configurable Components
25 x Cracked Industrial Firmware
05 x Datamined Wake Exceptions
05 x Decoded Emission Data
55 x Distorted Shield Cycle Recordings
16 x Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories
36 x Electrochemical Arrays
13 x Flawed Focus Crystal
101 x Focus Crystals
13 x Galvanising Alloys
20 x Germanium
30 x Grid Resistors
10 x Heat Conduction Wiring
05 x Heat Dispersion Plate
03 x Heat Resistant Ceramics
01 x Heat Vanes
20 x High Density Composites
70 x Hybrid Capacitors
15 x Imperial Shielding
60 x Inconsistent Shield Soak Analysis
35 x Iron
45 x Manganese
30 x Mechanical Components
33 x Mechanical Equipment
70 x Mechanical Scrap
05 x Mercury
05 x Military Grade Alloys
15 x Military Supercapacitors
65 x Modified Consumer Firmware
04 x Modified Embedded Firmware
02 x Molybdenum
61 x Niobium
05 x Open Symmetric Keys
05 x Pharmaceutical Isolators
15 x Phase Alloys
80 x Phosphorus
30 x Polymer Capacitors
04 x Precipitated Alloys
20 x Proprietary Composites
20 x Proto Light Alloys
05 x Proto Radiolic Alloys
20 x Refined Focus Crystals
05 x Ruthenium
20 x Salvaged Alloys
22 x Security Firmware Patch
20 x Selenium
15 x Specialised Legacy Firmware
05 x Strange Wake Solutions
75 x Sulphur
05 x Tagged Encryption Codes
10 x Tellurium
20 x Thermic Alloys
40 x Tin
05 x Unexpected Emission Data
05 x Unidentified Scan Archives
25 x Untypical Shield Scans
05 x Unusual Encrypted Files
33 x Vanadium
05 x Worn Shield Emitters
06 x Zirconium
Total – 81 Individual Material Types
Grand Total – 1718 Materials

If you don't think that gathering this many materials isnt a grind, you're kidding yourself.

My god, you really don't get to appreciate the grindyness until you write it out and it's staring you in the face.
And that's just for one ship, not including all the hoops and hurdles to unlock engineers in the first place.
It's really disgusting.
 
My god, you really don't get to appreciate the grindyness until you write it out and it's staring you in the face.
And that's just for one ship, not including all the hoops and hurdles to unlock engineers in the first place.
It's really disgusting.

How long would it take to gather those components if you just played the game um, I'm not sure how to describe it, aimlessly? Naturally? Ungrindingly? I know that's the suggestion, the solution to the grind. I think some of those things could take a very long time indeed to acquire unless you really went looking for them.
 
My god, you really don't get to appreciate the grindyness until you write it out and it's staring you in the face.
And that's just for one ship, not including all the hoops and hurdles to unlock engineers in the first place.
It's really disgusting.



Actually, that post is a blatant misrepresentation.
Most of those are redundant because of the mat trader.

I don't even pick up low level mats anymore unless I can't avoid it.
 
I'll grant you that there'll always be people who moan, regardless of how much easier things get.

The real issue (IMO, at least) is that we've currently got the choice of either doing dull stuff to get what we want or... not doing dull stuff and not getting what we want.

If there were alternative methods of getting stuff it'd go a long way to negating the argument that you're forced to do dull stuff.
Make the alternatives really, really challenging if they must be (perhaps forcing people to wing-up to achieve them) but give people choices.



That's option B; "If you don't like it, don't do so much of it"

I asked what else have you got?

What part of that do you not understand?

I didn't say I had anything else, I never said anything differently. There will always be two option, the fast grindy way or the slow less grindy way. It's whether the slow way needs to be a bit faster and varied is the question I think.

At the moment there are only two options and there always will be. I am not saying that the game is perfect either and that is how it should be. Taking me three years to get a python, is it acceptable. Probably not, but I measure my game time in the enjoyment I get from it and not the carrot that is dangled in front of me. So I can live with that pretty happily.

I woud really like more variety though, which would make it easier for me to not "grind" out mechanics.
 
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Actually, that post is a blatant misrepresentation.
Most of those are redundant because of the mat trader.

I don't even pick up low level mats anymore unless I can't avoid it.

That's a fair point, which bears repeating.

These days, gathering mat's is usually a case of always hunting for whatever is the G5 mat' in the same "row" as whatever I need and then trading down for the stuff I need.
Anything else that I pick up along the way is just "gravy".

I don't ignore the low-tier mat's though.
The way I see it, any mat I ignore is time wasted.
Equally, every time I see a "Storage Full" message, it's a missed opportunity.

I think the best system is (believe it or not) to regularly trade up to ensure no mat' is ever full.
Whenever I end up with, say, 250-odd Iron or Nickel, I trade-up 150 of them for Zinc or Germanium.
That way, I've always got space for more Iron and Nickel...which can also then be traded up.
And then, when I've got 250-odd Zinc and Germanium, I trade a bunch of those up for Tin and Tungsten.
Etc.

You're picking that stuff up anyway, as you're looking for other things, so you might as well cash 'em in for something a bit more useful.
 
I think the best system is (believe it or not) to regularly trade up to ensure no mat' is ever full.
Whenever I end up with, say, 250-odd Iron or Nickel, I trade-up 150 of them for Zinc or Germanium.
That way, I've always got space for more Iron and Nickel...which can also then be traded up.
And then, when I've got 250-odd Zinc and Germanium, I trade a bunch of those up for Tin and Tungsten.
Etc.

You're picking that stuff up anyway, as you're looking for other things, so you might as well cash 'em in for something a bit more useful.

That's how I do it. I target probably 95% of the USS's I see now too, which I rarely did before, and I've fitted a lot more collection limpet controllers onto ships. I also never take credits over mats for mission rewards.

When I have a bunch of credits and mats built up (however long it takes, don't rush it) and I have the hankering for a new ship, I'll buy one and engineer it all how I want with zero frustration of hunting down specific items.

In the last week or two I've bought and fully engineered a FGS & Chieftan just to get rid of mats.
 
Well it seems you simply have more time to spare OP. 6800 hours is always going to be more than any in game grind.

But some people don't have as much free time, so maybe, and I'm just guessing, that's why they feel the grind, because it matters how many years it takes to get things when you only play a few hours a day. But maybe I know nothing hey, not like an alternate opinion matters or anything. Lol.

This^

6800 hours! WOW I wish I could play that much!
Guessing here on your entry date but let's say you played 3 years:
6800 / 3 years / 365 days = 6.21 hours per day average.
I cannot come close to that average per day even with long sessions on weekends tipping the average up.

Generally I love ED. But when you set your sights on some engineering goals for example and have a fleet of ships it's a grind for those of us with jobs, families and other things that limit our gaming time.
I took a break from engineering for a bit but am now back at it. So instead of flying around fighting/running missions I'm on a task list of 4 planets to prospect a zillion raw mats. It will be hours and hours of SRV driving for me over the next few days. I like driving the SRV to a point but not day after day, hour after hour "oh look-scanner shows a rock Pattern! Yippeee!"
For me this is a grind. Self inflicted, Yes. But I have some PvP specific engineering goals that made me decide to do it. Given a choice I'd rather fly missions to achieve this but the option doesn't exist.

Love ED. But yes, it's a grind sometimes.
 
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I just started a new account on PC as I have been an Xbox Elite Player for years now to the tune of about 6800 hours played(On XBox alone). I felt like the grind was going to be so hard because I hear so many people complain about it so often that I started to believe it was true. Then I look at my Inara journal updates(https://inara.cz/cmdr/109447/) and realize its not at all that hard and I feel more and more people just want stuff that they are unable or unwilling to work for. This is still less then 8 days played and Im 2 Imperial ranks away from the Cutter. From a Sidey to a A class Python in less then 8 days in game playing time.

https://screenshots.firefox.com/PeertbT0buRTMg6K/inara.cz

I guess I just want people to know it isnt hard. In fact, with the right information, its super easy.

I don't think it's a grind. :)
Never grinded, never will. Still having fun and all the credits and ships I need.
 
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