Idea - Allow an NPC to turn the FSS into an ADS

[Old Duck]

I've vocally supported the new exploration tools, but I've also strongly advocated for giving us NPC crewmates in a (near) future update. Having just scanned a system with 80 planets, even I thought, "Wow, that was tedious!" So here's my idea:

Why not allow an NPC crewmate, one who sits on the bridge with us, run the FSS? This NPC would have an exploration rank, just like SLF pilots have a combat rank, and we would be able to issue commands to our NPC the way we can our SLF pilot. Those commands should be bindable - I currently have "Attack my target" bound on my DS4 controller, for example. This means if we have an NPC copilot, we could issue "scan system" and "probe planet" commands, which would, from our perspective, honk the system and slowly start filling in the system map with data. As our NPC copilot ranks up in exploration, they become faster at filling in the system map, with an Elite explorer NPC being able to "instafill" the system map, just like the old ADS. In fact, it would be even better since that map will also have planet details.

The reason I find this more acceptable than just giving us the old ADS back is because:

1) It keeps the current exploration tools as-is. We're not just "rolling back" major design decision made by Frontier.
2) In essence, it gives explorers who want the old ADS system the very same functionality.
3) I want a copilot sitting in that chair next to me, and this gives said copilot something cool to do!
4) There is a cost trade-off that balances the "easiness" of having an automatic system scan done for us.
.....A) NPCs take a cut* of our income, so while we would be mapping systems faster with an Elite NPC, we wouldn't make as much money (which also counts towards our own exploration rank).
.....B) NPCs take time to train, especially to get to Elite. So it'll take a bit of effort to get the old ADS functionality.
.....C) NPCs require ships with at least two seats, thus forcing at least some of us to reconsider what we explore in (sorry Ziggy, no more Type-7 exploration).

I would love to have this option, To me it's the best of all worlds, and theoretically should make people in both camps (FSS vs ADS) happy. Right?

* NPC payment needs to be reconsidered. NPCs should be paid a relatively low base salary, with any "percentage cut" based on actual work, not just final payment. In other words, if I decide to scan a system myself, the NPC should not get a cut of the value of what I personally scan.

 

[pato]

YES. just YES

 

[Ian Skippy]

I am all for dedicating crew to auto tasks, and have them rank in it. Having an npc be infinitely faster than any human is a big No though. I also feel the proposal doesnt factor in the varying reasons why people dont like the fss and/or miss the ADS.

So IMHO your idea is great, but should not lead to ADS-style behavior. That is a multi-faceted issue best solved by introducing a variety of dedicated explo modules. It'll also prevent issues with certain single-seat explo ships not having crew.

 

[Riverside]

The idea of an NPC earnings reducer overcomes the farming concerns, having the NPC sit in a seat restricts the option to multi-crew capable ships which puts a skill gate on the function.

Rep for effort but I'd rather just have the pre-3.3 ADS back as a purchasable module, it should not have been removed from the game.

 

[Riverside]

I am all for dedicating crew to auto tasks, and have them rank in it. Having an npc be infinitely faster than any human is a big No though. I also feel the proposal doesnt factor in the varying reasons why people dont like the fss and/or miss the ADS.

So IMHO your idea is great, but should not lead to ADS-style behavior. That is a multi-faceted issue best solved by introducing a variety of dedicated explo modules. It'll also prevent issues with certain single-seat explo ships not having crew.

Why on earth does it matter how others choose to explore? Play your own game, let them play theirs.

 

[Sylow]

Great idea. When we're just at it, I also want NPCs for me which:
- Automatically load up cargo, fly to other stations, sell the cargo, buy return cargo and do the return trip.
- Reliably win all fights for me, without me having to bother about it any more.
.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

Why not ?
Dont think you should get any discovery tags if you let an npc do it however, but thats just my thought.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I like the general concept of AI crew doing stuff, but your implementation doesn't address the all the issues I have with the FSS.

1. Piloting is secondary to scanning in the exploration process, especially with your elite crew concept which would make the whole process completely passive
2. The FSS provides too much information
3. Probing is still the only reason to move around the system, and automating that leads to even more passivity

I get where you're coming from, but for me that would make things even worse than the current FSS

 

[Old Duck]

Disclaimer - I won't be "defending" my idea, as it's just that, an idea (and I'm taking a break from debating, as it's exhausting after awhile). But I am watching this thread with interest.

If nothing else, perhaps someone at Frontier will see it and think, "Hmmmm, that's a good idea, let's fix what the OP got wrong and implement our version in a future update." Who knows!

 

[GODofDUTY83]

I like the general concept of AI crew doing stuff, but your implementation doesn't address the all the issues I have with the FSS.

1. Piloting is secondary to scanning in the exploration process, especially with your elite crew concept which would make the whole process completely passive
2. The FSS provides too much information
3. Probing is still the only reason to move around the system, and automating that leads to even more passivity

I get where you're coming from, but for me that would make things even worse than the current FSS

That answered my why not. Rep

 

[Ian Skippy]

Why on earth does it matter how others choose to explore? Play your own game, let them play theirs.

Because we are discussing game design, and "leave me alone, I do what I want!" isnt an argument. If a new thargoid thing is rumoured and people race to find it, you having a godmode-cheat-NPC auto-finding stuff instantly effects everyone else.

Which is why game design in a multiplayer context is more complex than just yelling "gimme what I want!", whether you acknowledge it or not. And it is why proposals have a better change of being considered by FD if you can look beyond your own interests.

It is why things drewcarnegie wants are more likely to happen, as he isnt asking for an advantage over others, compared to other ideas. Whether you like it or not, anything you want that gives you an advantage over the current system is problematic.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I've vocally supported the new exploration tools, but I've also strongly advocated for giving us NPC crewmates in a (near) future update. Having just scanned a system with 80 planets, even I thought, "Wow, that was tedious!" So here's my idea:

Why not allow an NPC crewmate, one who sits on the bridge with us, run the FSS? This NPC would have an exploration rank, …

Your proposal would turn the FSS into an ADS for multi crew ships. The whole reason the FSS exists is to make the players do something to "find" the objects in a system. Having an NPC that does that is removing the whole reason for the FSS. (And basically you are saying that the FSS is a bad idea).

Why would an NPC need a rank for using the FSS? It's an activity that requires absolutely no skill at all (beyond the skill required for other normal tasks like pointing at things and pushing buttons).
Who cares about 10% less credits for some scans?

So, no. No removal of the FSS for some ships. All or nothing I say. Live with it or demand it to be removed entirely.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Your proposal would turn the FSS into an ADS for multi crew ships. The whole reason the FSS exists is to make the players do something to "find" the objects in a system. Having an NPC that does that is removing the whole reason for the FSS. (And basically you are saying that the FSS is a bad idea).

Why would an NPC need a rank for using the FSS? It's an activity that requires absolutely no skill at all (beyond the skill required for other normal tasks like pointing at things and pushing buttons).
Who cares about 10% less credits for some scans?

So, no. No removal of the FSS for some ships. All or nothing I say. Live with it or demand it to be removed entirely.

Counter-point: turrets are like the AI helping you aim at the cost of DPS. You could have the same here: auto-scan but slower than a human would be. Same with auto-pilot.

 

[Burke]

auto-scan but slower than a human would be.

Why do we need another time sink? Is it not enough that those people who are engaged by the FSS get to play with it? Let everybody blaze their own trail...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Counter-point: turrets are like the AI helping you aim at the cost of DPS. You could have the same here: auto-scan but slower than a human would be. Same with auto-pilot.

ADS - auto scan with lower information result.

Wanting NPCs to do the FSS point and click is just that, accepting that the FSS is not a good game aspect and wanting something to avoid it. Doesn't matter how it gets dressed up.

 

[Ian Skippy]

ADS - auto scan with lower information result.

Wanting NPCs to do the FSS point and click is just that, accepting that the FSS is not a good game aspect and wanting something to avoid it. Doesn't matter how it gets dressed up.

Or admitting some dont personally enjoy it. Not everything can be liked by all. Hence the docking computer, for example. Doesnt mean docking is bad, just means some would rather skip it.

As long as people dont get an unfair advantage by skipping something, I say let them.

 

[Burke]

Doesnt mean docking is bad, just means some would rather skip it.

The utter hilarity of polishing your epeen by not using a docking computer. People seem so desperate to measure themsefls against something in games these days. I swear it never used to be as bad as this.

If somebody doesnt enjoy the FSS why dont we just let them use the the ADS? There is no good reason to force this upon everybody. Its those same people that think not using a DC makes them special that think everybody should be forced to use the FSS isnt it?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Or admitting some dont personally enjoy it. Not everything can be liked by all. Hence the docking computer, for example. Doesnt mean docking is bad, just means some would rather skip it.

As long as people dont get an unfair advantage by skipping something, I say let them.

Cool, now can I get the ADS back? Not getting any unfair advantage by using it, actually it would be quite punishing to use it as it doesn't include the instant detailed surface scan and would require the user to fly to the objects to detail scan them.

 

[Azirphaeli]

Counter-point: turrets are like the AI helping you aim at the cost of DPS. You could have the same here: auto-scan but slower than a human would be. Same with auto-pilot.

Alright, i support this so long as it follows the rules of the game. FSS cannot be used while moving so you gotta be stopped. The NPC does the work, cannot scan blocked bodies, you don't get first discover bonus or tagged name since you didn't find it, and you get trade dividends levels of credits for turning in the data. Further, you cannot scan to claim anythign the NPC already did.

Why do we need another time sink? Is it not enough that those people who are engaged by the FSS get to play with it? Let everybody blaze their own trail...

Because gating rewards like first discoveries (and any future gameplay) behind a choice of the "more enjoyable but slow" tool and the "boring, miserable, but incredibly faster tool" means we'd have to "choose" to blaze the trail that makes us competitive. The only option becomes the easiest/fastest and the better tool falls to disuse and get's no further dev attention because it's not being used.

 

[Burke]

Yeah but ADS users would be giving up the automatic discoverys... FSS would be faster in one way but the ADS faster in the other.

Apart from that i think alot of people were so engaged by the FSS that they would use it anyway given the choice. Just the impression i got.