Imbalance of Progress in Elite Dangerous

Most of the professions just scale poorly and this is really what needs to be addressed. 2Kcr to blast a sidewinder while you're in your own starting sidey is significant income, and compares favorably with any trading or haulage you can do with your small cargo hold, or other BB missions within your reach (where are all the assassination missions for small fry, anyway?). Once you're in something like a Python, the 20K you'd get for some pirate your own size doesn't even pay for your ammunition, and god forbid you take hull damage once they beef up the AI enough to make this a likely occurrence.

Trading scales as well as it does just because the only significant factor is the size of your cargo hold. Bigger ship = more cargo space = more profit per trip.
 
In real life careers are not balanced. Why should they be in Elite Dangerous? Elite Dangerous is a space simulator. 1000 years from now in space, it's doubtful that careers will be balanced either. Life isn't fair and games shouldn't be either. Every amount of money I've made since dumping my sidewinder has been from exploring and smuggling and I've done well for myself and had fun and continually have upgraded my ship. I'm happy in a Cobra, if you're going for an Anaconda all I have to say is good luck.

Like plenty of explorers didn't do well financially in real life back in the day. After his exploring days Christopher Columbus didn't do real well, Hernan Cortes was broke from debt, and plenty of explorers like Captain Cook and Ferdinand Magellan were killed by natives, others by disease. It makes sense that people like me who explore aren't going to make enough that way to get an Anaconda. We can't take out loans and stuff in this game either like a lot of people in olden times did to make those great expeditions.

Traders are like space truckers with their own merchandise, no bosses, and no competition a lot of the time. If every store is 8 light years away, guess what, they are going to have you by the balls and will make plenty. Cargo lines seem to make bank in real life, guess what, if you're a trader you own your own 1 ship cargo line, so of course they are going to make more money.

Bounty hunting and assassinations and piracy should have higher pay for the risk you put in to your ship IMHO. If I am going to risk my life fighting someone I should make more money for it. They should also offer more missions for people in the Anacondas that need to make more money per kill to pay for damage and ammo. That's why I don't do that. Miners should probably have a tractor beam so it isn't such a huge pain in the behind to track down the rocks you shoot off. Other than that, I'm not at issue with how this game is set up but that's just me.
 
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In real life careers are not balanced. Why should they be in Elite Dangerous? Elite Dangerous is a space simulator. 1000 years from now in space, it's doubtful that careers will be balanced either. Life isn't fair and games shouldn't be either. Every amount of money I've made since dumping my sidewinder has been from exploring and smuggling and I've done well for myself and had fun and continually have upgraded my ship. I'm happy in a Cobra, if you're going for an Anaconda all I have to say is good luck.
LOL to ED being anywhere near a sim.

No true Newtonian, simplified... well everything and now coming to a console near you.

It's a game in the truest sense of the word now.
 
In real life careers are not balanced. Why should they be in Elite Dangerous?

Please read the thread. We're not discussing balance as in making everything earn as much as trading but balancing as in there's progression to the professions. Flick through some of my previous posts in this thread it's all explained there.
 
Please read the thread. We're not discussing balance as in making everything earn as much as trading but balancing as in there's progression to the professions. Flick through some of my previous posts in this thread it's all explained there.


I edited the title of the thread just now. Hopefully that will help the thread skippers out a little bit.

- Edit haha never mind that didn't work, it only changed the title of my first post which no one reads haha.
 
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I'm happy this has popped up today again, as I keep reading threads like this, and always wanted to reply, but most of them are old.
I have quit ED for the time being. I like what they're doing in 1.2, I really do, and I will probably hop back in for a while, but until they somehow reduce this disparity, there is no reason for me to come back.
I own a Viper with what I consider the max upgrades I could get on that money. I'd rather be hang, drawn and quartered than endure an hour of "trading".

The problem is twofold, in my opinion. First up, trading is not trading. It's hauling of the simplest form, and not fun. People keep mentioning RL examples of trading vs combat vs exploration. What we have in game is the equivalent of buying Pizza in Stockholm and selling it 30% more in Oslo, without any other factors. If you think this is the way RL works as well, well, why are not all traders on this forum billionaires? Pizza too heavy?
No. RL involves multiple variables, taxes, investing, all the good stuff. What we have in game is only the act of moving cargo from point A to point B. The boring stuff.

Secondly, ships give too much of a combat advantage, so everything goes back to trucking. You want to be a bounty hunter (and especially against players? ) Nope, trucking. Want to be a pirate ? Nope, trucking.
And to take real life examples a bit further, pirates keep getting compared to somali pirates specifically. It can't be compared. Today's world is so small you can travel across it in a day. This is not the case with ED. A more accurate comparison would be the 17-18th century pirates, where response was not as immediate as it is today.

Also, there's very little risk in hauling. You can just go to solo and grind away, it's not like the NPCs are going to kill you. What FD has done with the multiplayer portion of the game is something that's completely ludicrous, but I guess that's a different thread altogether.
 
Where as I am not naïve enough to expect fairness and equal or similar pay for different career paths- usually the most or more dangerous the profession the more you get rewarded for risk. The higher reward for higher risk is like natural selection or the supply and demand law in economics.

This is why it is even more curious to me the way Bounty hunting has been left as a soft option in terms of rewards. I mean you can take on a high elite rated Anaconda and still make a measly $150K!
 
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Let's be clear. Profit per hour does not need to be the same across professions at a given experience level (e.g., number of hours played). I don't think anyone is stating this. What many people want, however, if for earnings to not differ by orders of magnitude. (e.g., 2 million for exploration vs. 200 million for trade). That, I agree, is insane. It has to be a bug. We should not need to use a logarithmic scale to compare earnings across the professions.

Well said, the difference being an order of magnitude leads people who would otherwise not want to do so many trade runs to actually do it and to find the game massively tedious in the process. This is not me as I am ok with trading, but I understand others who feel it is the only realistic way to progress ship wise within months instead of years if play a few hours a week.

Careers do not need the same level of compensation, but at the moment the difference is just too big and especially as trading is the easiest career once you get about a million credits.
 
Why don't people understand. Every profession in ED reaches a plateau/deadend when it comes to progression except trading. I put my HOTAS away for the time being in hope that FD does something about this. I love this game but progression in other professions beside trading needs some love. I don't want to fly a conda, but I would like to make enough to full kit our a Vulture or a ASP in a reasonable amount of time. A month after release some players ( that bought ED on the 16th) were already in condas, and that pace has not slowed down for traders or speed up for everyone else. I refuse to trade, its boring as hell. I did enough of that in beta to know its not the career for me.
 
In real life the truck drivers do not make net earnings of ten times more than miners on average. I know some truck drivers it is very long hours and they are not very rich.

In ED the truck drivers get rich quick, which is a bit odd.
 
In real life the truck drivers do not make net earnings of ten times more than miners on average. I know some truck drivers it is very long hours and they are not very rich.

In ED the truck drivers get rich quick, which is a bit odd.

They are more like cargo ship owners.
 
Well, if the only goal is to A-Outfit something in order to play some role (Combat), then the only way to get there is via Credits. And the only way to get credits is by grinding your happy suit on Rare or mega-Cargo runs.

Forget Mining, as anyone who has bothered knows that it's pretty much a null adventure of a scoop the poop for a .1 Million.

I mean let's face it, if the object is to collect 100,000,000 Credits so you can afford anything after C-Class Cobra, there's no way you can profit that type of massive credit on Combat-whatever alone. You either scan 10,000 systems, or trade 1,000,000 tons widgets.

I'm not grinding anything. So I'm pretty much stuck with maybe getting a post-Cobra anything in a few months if I really try. A-Spec stuff is a fairy tale I keep hearing about. Where's my Quest Reward Loot.
 
Hello everyone,

I am likely beating a dead horse here when I say that there seems to be a huge disconnect in the amount of profit you can attain per career choice. When I first started the game I was all about them bounties so let's start there.

Combat Credits:

I spent my time roaming RES sites and Nav points, both in controlled territory and in anarchy systems and what I found was that the cobra mk 3 targets tended to be the most credits per hour, netting an average of 15k a piece with a kill warrant scanner. Yeah occasionally a big juicy conda would pop in with a hefty bounty on their head but this was rather rare, almost to the point of not really worth mentioning.

I tried assassination missions, and they were okay, not a bad profit for turning them in... but the problem I found is that it never seemed to give a mission reward higher than 164,000 credits to go kill a dangerous foe.

So then I tried helping out in the warzones, but the profit vs risk was not scaling properly. In the warzone you run a much higher risk of losing your ship and the targets only generate a very miniscule amount of profit compared to killing their wanted counter parts in res and nav point locations.

All in All I have earned:

4,556,052 credits from bounties
110,000 credits from combat bonds
325,270 credits from assassinations
with the highest reward being 160,486
- total bounties claimed 463

Next up - Smuggling:

I have yet to find a worth while profit run with smuggling. There seems to be very little information to learn how to do it properly so most of my smuggling came from goods i picked up on killing wanted people.

56,432 total profit - pathetic i know haha.

I tried sneaking 100 tons of imperial slaves into a place that said slaves were outlawed, only to find the station had no black market, so i went to the other stations in the system with the same result. At least I was good at sneaking them in. As such I have not yet been successful in smuggling to really know if it is a profit gaining venture or not.

Trading -

To me it feels like Elite Dangerous should be renamed to Elite Trading Simulator. The amount of profit you can pull in with very little effort through trading outscales everything completely. To the point that it seems to be worthless to try the other routes in order to attain better ships. It would take months and months to get even just a python through bounty hunting. Where as with trading it can be done in a short period of time.

Profit:

19,821,501 total profit
10,457 - commodities traded
78,345 - Average Profit
328,372 - Highest Single Transaction

The numbers are crazy here.

Mining:

I have very little experience with mining, but the biggest problem I found with it is that you don't have a tractor beam to pull the mined chunks in. I think that if you could tractor beam in the junks you blow off of the roids it would be a lot more viable. As it stands now you blow off bits and hunt them down for a while, then get back to blowing off more chunks.

In my exploration I did find a very very nice ring of metal roids around a dead star that had almost nothing but pure plat in it. The trouble was it was about 200 LY away from civilization.

Total mining profit 130,898 - for 12 tons which is really nice, but time consuming due to having to chase down the chunks.

Exploration:

This is something that I love, it's fun to find interesting new planets, and stars and so forth. It is not though a profit gaining venture at all. This is something to do after you have a nice nest egg it seems. I have a shiny fully kitted out ASP that I have ventured out into the stars with and have found some water planets, some metal ones, gas giants, the whole nine yards, even got first discoveries on a lot of them the other day. The problem is, it takes a LOT of time to find the good stuff out there, and the reward for the good stuff is quite pathetic if you ask me.

At most you can get 45,000 credits for finding an earth like planet that has not been explored before. But good luck finding that. The most credits I ever saw from a system was ~250,000 credits. It was a star rich, metal planet rich system that I discovered on my own. Take a look at

wredguia gw-e d11-92

Really far out there from civilization. What could be done to help improve the exploration profit is determine a better reward for things like distance, and type of finds based on where you turn them in at. Like If i were to take all that metal rich data back to a mining corporation, it should give me a better profit than taking it back to just joe shmo on the edge of civilized space.

Systems explored: 509
Profit from Exploration: 1,611,110 credits

yeah this is with the advanced exploration device, and the detailed scanner.

Really sad that trading seems to be the only real way to make money in the game. It's more involved and fun to pew pew, but there's no profit to be had there compared to trading. I think that there should be ways to help your profit in combat. You should be able to say, enlist in the Federation, Alliance, or Empire and get like a massive bonus for fighting in warzones that they support.

I am okay with trading being the highest profit gain, what I am not okay with is that the gap in profit between them is far too great.

Like I said, this game should be renamed to "Elite Trading Simulator"

That being said, I enjoy the game still, this is not a hate on the game thread, just my observations after a couple weeks of playing.


*** Edit: I edited the title of the thread from imbalance of profit to imbalance of progression as that's really what I am trying to get at here. The trade profession has a very nice progression, but all other paths dont even come close even when you combine them together.

Trading will always be the most profitable occupation which is why it should also be the most dangerous by far. But so many cry about danger in this game that Frontier are wary of ramping up the interdiction level
 
Personal opinion, I trade to make money, I bounty hunt for fun and I explore for adventure and glory.

In a years time nobody will care about the 10,000th player who has over 100 million credits. But everyone will know the name of the first person who got to the centre of the galaxy, or the first player who crossed the galaxy entirely.
And even as a low level explorer you can get a bit of that glory by having your name attached to a system you discovered. Nobody will ever be able to take that away from you.

I agree there should more things to entice, which I'm sure will be implemented eventually. And scaling does need fixing, surely a new earth like world discovered would be worth more to someone that some crates of tea...but that's only a minor quibble for me, I don't explore for riches, although a more sensible figure would be nice.

And as for bounty hunting, scaling. As you become a more and more famous killer, you should get bigger and bigger bounties. Maybe when your truly a legend being asked to assassinate a planetary leader, with tens of millions as your reward.
The same for miners and pirates, extra's for those that stuck with it. Miners being able to start their own company, hire haulers and NPC miners to do all the work for you while you sit back and cash in. That kind of thing.

Little changes, but that's all.
 
In real life the truck drivers do not make net earnings of ten times more than miners on average. I know some truck drivers it is very long hours and they are not very rich.

In ED the truck drivers get rich quick, which is a bit odd.

Do these truck drivers frequently get pulled over by psychopathic people and have their truck blown up?
 
Bounty hunting and piracy could have a thing called notoriety. Word of your actions preceed you.

Could unlock special missions or something.

Exactly this. Right now there are three types of rewards people aspire to. Credits, ship size, and exploration tags. While you can get rank it doesn't really translate into anything meaningful yet. But enough with the credits - let's see rewards for different play styles such as enhanced system modules, missions, etc.
 
What does it matter if the careers are not balanced?

It matters A LOT! Why? Because it makes parts of the game more or less inaccessbile to non TRADER gamers. The ships are so expensive to buy and run that you can only afford or more run e.g. an Anaconda if you're a trader. Once the random out of RES points ring bounty hunting with high bounties on different ship types got killed by 1.1, you simply can't run a Python just for bounty hunting.

The game forces you into trading. That's Bullenkacke! It's simply stupid game design that only trading generates most profit to afford and run expensive ships. Original Elite 84... OK. But if you offer 3 types of careers, you should balance them and not favourise one. Pretty stupid. *I can already see a you use bad language (stupid is a veeeery bad word) mail from FD. If that happens, I'm out.
 
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Trading has always been the backbone of Elite games. It's the go to thing you do to make money no matter what profession you choose.

In the original game there wasn't really much else. You traded and fought to survive. In the next two games combat was pretty much reduced to jousting at sort of supercruise speeds unless in planet atmosphere and for the most part pointless as a career.

In this game, you can still make good money in combat. If you want to make decent money without dedicated trading ships your probably going to want to mix it up a bit. Take some hauling missions and resource collection in between, bounty hunt at res on the way. Get FSD interdictor if your ship is a cheap one you won't suffer much for using it and can do ok.

I guess sometimes the game feels a bit empty right now. Try joining a group where players have a common cause and hang out with them.

With Wings you should be able to do a lot more in groups. So from Tuesday onwards things should be better for those that want to MP. Your wing can be made up of explorers, miners, traders, bounty hunters and you can share the wealth, use each others skills to the groups advantage.

Other than that. Does the postman earn as much as a policeman, soldier, doctor. Last I looked, in real life many of the most dangerous jobs pay an insignificant amount, especially those where you risk your skin. Risk money especially someone elses seems to be the easiest way to make money. Why should it be any different in a space sim? Go find some buddies and play PvE coop in wings. Work as a team and share the wealth and hopefully things will balance out better through teamwork.
 
I just can't fathom how some people can defend the mind numbingly boring gameplay that hauling is. And force it down others' throats, no less!
 
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