In system jumps.

[Stealthie]

Just 'cos I thought it might add a bit of perspective, I had a look at the station where my ship is currently parked to see what missions were available and what travel distances they involve.

Mission Board
Missions available:75
Missions with stated arrival distances:33
Known arrival distances (in ls): 1235, 226, 4349, 4102, 4178, 4178, 4178, 2408, 4407, 4178, 4178, 4102, 37, 2955, 526, 4102, 4102, 4178, 4487, 4178, 4487, 4178, 4487, 4487, 4487, 521, 4349, 368, 2400, 140, 140, 140, 4349.
Missions with unknown arrival distances: 42.
Breakdown of missions with unknown arrival distances: 6 x supply & return, 18 x massacre, 4 x assassination, 5 x search & rescue, 4 x hostage rescue, 4 x mining, 4 x surface scan.

Notes: I had a look at the destination systems (Lave, Diso, Orerve, Leesti) for a couple of the assassination missions, a couple of the surface scan missions and a couple of the hostage rescue missions are they were all in systems where the furthest body was <5,000ls

Passenger Lounge
Missions Available: 55
Missions with stated arrival distances: 19
Known arrival distances (in ls): 581, 254, 358, 299, 1235, 1932, 577, 352, 2822, 167, 1235, 1808, 962, 373, 1583, 2241, 588, 373, 373
Missions with unknown arrival distances: 36
Breakdown of missions with unknown arrival distances: 19 x long distance (>10kly), 17 x sightseeing c/w multiple destinations.

Notes: n/a.

Observations
Absolutely NO regular missions indicating long arrival distances.
Largest source of missions with unknown arrival distances are massacre missions, which wouldn't be assisted by the addition of micro-jumps.
All other missions with unknown arrival distances have multiple availability so that another mission of the same type could be taken if a long arrival distance was found to be involved.
At least half of missions with unknown arrival distances involve systems where furthest body is <5,000ls so no long arrival distances are guaranteed.
Absolutely NO passenger missions indicating long arrival distances.
Largest source of passenger missions with unknown arrival distances are long distance missions (>10,000ly) which wouldn't be assisted by the addition of micro-jumps.
Sightseeing missions appear to be the only obvious case where micro-jumps may be useful - although sightseeing missions will often require multiple jumps over long distances as well.

Summary
Total Missions: 130 (100%)
Missions with short arrival distances: 52 (40%)
Missions with long arrival distances: 0 (0%)
Missions with unknown arrival distances: 78 (60%)
Missions where micro-jumps would definitely not be useful: 95 (73%)
Missions where micro-jumps would be of questionable usefulness: 10 (7.6%)
Missions where micro-jumps may be of usefulness: 25 (19%)
Unique missions where micro-jumps may be of usefulness: 0 (0%)


Obviously this IS just a snapshot (from Watson Station in Orerve) but it reveals nothing compelling to suggest an urgent need for micro-jumps.
It seems like the most compelling reason for them might be to complete sightseeing missions more quickly.
Most of the well-paid sightseeing missions require significant numbers of jumps so they're not exactly going to be top of the "to do" list of players who don't have a lot of time to spend.
This would seem to be corroborated by the fact that nobody in this thread has cited sightseeing missions as a reason to implement micro-jumps.

 

[the source 0179]

I see.

So, when an explorer rocks up in a system which has a body a long way away, the game needs to be changed so he can get there quicker.

Conversely, when an explorer shows up in a system where everything's already been discovered he can just go elsewhere.

So, why can't Mr Impatient just go elsewhere and explore part of the unexplored 99% in search of systems that are small enough not to provoke boredom?



Same selfish mentality at work.

Change the game to suit impatient people and anybody who loses out as a result can just suck it up.

I haven't been repeating that long trips aren't common.
I've been repeating that unexpected long trips aren't common.
If people choose to take on long trips then the reward is likely to be greater and, as ever, a person using micro-jumps will be able to earn much, much more per hour.



You're not thinking that through.

With fast travel possible, who needs to head toward a station directly?
It'd be possible to jump in pretty-much any direction, far enough to avoid potential attackers and then jump back to the station.



Mode isn't relevant.

All that matters is that a person using micro-jumps can achieve more than a person who isn't.

See I liked the smeaton refugee runs when it was worth it. I looked at it as I was doing a service that normal pilots didn't want to do. And I didn't board hop. I went from station to station which made the final run tight on the timer. And I never had a full load in my python because I didn't board hop and the timer counting down. And I think out of the 10 or so runs I did I got interdicted 8 or 9 times which took more time away from countdown. Best run I had was just under 75m and think I had 1 min left on one of the count downs the average was around 45 to 55mcr. The way I was doing it I didn't see as op. It was only op because of the people that board hopped (cheated because they were impatient and greedy). And because of that and the people that complained about the cr they were making it got nerfed. Which ruined it for people that didnt board hop.
I have no issue with sc apart from I think they could speed up the acceleration though.
Also I have no problem if there was an option for in system jump or option of jumping to other star as long as there was consequences for it. For example if you had a mission and used that feature the payout for the mission is dropped to 25% or something so yes you could use it but you'd make more money by doing it the slow way.
But i dont particularly care either way but I'd prefer the devs work on other issues instead of implementing something like this or implementing what I have suggested before of buying a passenger ticket to colonia if you have been there before and have ships there at a large price. But people didnt like that idea and i accept that but wont stop me from mentioning it from time to time lol. Sorry for the long rant lol.

 

[VR Golgot]

Just 'cos I thought it might add a bit of perspective, I had a look at the station where my ship is currently parked to see what missions were available and what travel distances they involve.

A nice stab at objectivity and hard data. But....

* For myself, these stats don't cover where the problem lies. It is those missions that start with a defined destination, (often in a small, easily navigable system) then redirect you in a non-optional manner to a distant location. These are much harder to test, granted, but you have not included them here. Kinda negates much of the exercise from my perspective.

* 'At least half of missions with unknown arrival distances involve systems where furthest body is <5,000ls so no long arrival distances are guaranteed.' is a fine example of you ignoring the above. It's not true for many mission types. Being sent to neighbouring systems is often a possibility. ('Oh sorry we meant this planet needs a scan' / 'actually the assassination target is in this system' etc).

* Your definition of when micro-jumps would be useful is really odd (as your 'only with passenger missions' conclusion shows...). Why wouldn't it be useful in massacre missions per se, for example?

Nice snapshot, but not a hugely helpful analysis unfortunately. (But it perhaps shouldn't be surprising that someone who doesn't see the desirability for micro-jumps continues to not see the desirability of micro-jumps )

 

[Stealthie]

See I liked the smeaton refugee runs when it was worth it. I looked at it as I was doing a service that normal pilots didn't want to do. And I didn't board hop. I went from station to station which made the final run tight on the timer.

Well, you can probably recall my views on Smeaton.

Fundamentally, the mission-board only ever generated a couple of them at a time.
Obviously, it was intended to be a fairly rare opportunity which could be taken advantage of among other available missions.
The real problem was the result of people mode-flipping to stack 20 of them at once.
If you weren't doing that, good on ya. [up]

The introduction of micro-jumps would, of course, also have an impact on that though.

With Smeaton, we also had the exploit whereby people were task-killing while in hyper-space, restarting the game and spawning roughly half way to Smeaton, thus reducing the travel time from 40 minutes to around 10 minutes and being able to avoid a lot of the interdictions that were likely along the way.

Seems like micro-jumps would create a lot of the same advantages that task-killing in hyperspace did.
And, added to that, with micro-jumps implemented you'd get people flocking to suitable systems farming the missions, mode-flipping, and it'd end up with FDev nerfing the whole thing again. [sad]

And then you'd get people gloating about how they made Cr30bn in a week anyway so they don't care if it got nerfed - in other words, saying "I got rich so I don't care if my single-minded greed screwed the game up for everybody else".

 

[the source 0179]

Well, you can probably recall my views on Smeaton.

Fundamentally, the mission-board only ever generated a couple of them at a time.
Obviously, it was intended to be a fairly rare opportunity which could be taken advantage of among other available missions.
The real problem was the result of people mode-flipping to stack 20 of them at once.
If you weren't doing that, good on ya. [up]

The introduction of micro-jumps would, of course, also have an impact on that though.

With Smeaton, we also had the exploit whereby people were task-killing while in hyper-space, restarting the game and spawning roughly half way to Smeaton, thus reducing the travel time from 40 minutes to around 10 minutes and being able to avoid a lot of the interdictions that were likely along the way.

Seems like micro-jumps would create a lot of the same advantages that task-killing in hyperspace did.
And, added to that, with micro-jumps implemented you'd get people flocking to suitable systems farming the missions, mode-flipping, and it'd end up with FDev nerfing the whole thing again. [sad]

And then you'd get people gloating about how they made Cr30bn in a week anyway so they don't care if it got nerfed - in other words, saying "I got rich so I don't care if my single-minded greed screwed the game up for everybody else".

Yep. Its definitely the cheater,impatient,greedy people that get things taken away from people that do it normally. But as long as fd keep nerfing things instead of fixing the issue of the cheaters and board hoppers we will continue to get nice things taken away. Lol.

 

[nanite2000]

Okay, so your fundamental "solution" is that micro-jumps should be risky?

Let's take a look at that.

Let's say I'm doing long-haul cargo missions in my T9 for Cr10m a pop.
I can stack 3 missions at the same time, before my hold is full, and they take an hour to complete.
That gives me Cr30m per hour.

Now let's say you're doing the same thing using micro-jumps.
Depending on how it works, you would, presumably, be taking a considerably shorter time to complete the missions.
You'd be completing them in, say, 15 minutes instead of 1 hour.
That's going to give you Cr120m per hour.

The assumption here is that micro-jumps would have no drawback/balancing.

As I suggested in my proposal, injector fuel could be expensive to offset the profits from long-distance hauling. Combined with additional costs to repair damaged drives as a result of micro-jumping, I think it would create a reasonable balance.

It might be worth pointing out, too, that if using micro-jumps is risky enough to balance against somebody who's not using them, you're not going to complete many missions per hour which would seem to undermine the whole "It'd be good for people who don't have a lot of time" argument completely.

Well, again, there's an implicit assumption that micro-jumps would only be used to benefit missions. But I don't see it that way.

For me, the major benefit would be when out exploring. You jump into a new system, and perform a scan. You see a secondary star with a system around it with some potential candidates that could make them worthy of further investigation:

* Maybe they meet the criteria for Guardian ruins, brain trees, geysers, Thargoid base site, etc...
* Maybe there's a moon with an exceptionally short/close orbit around a gas giant.
* Maybe there's a landable planet with mad geography.
* Maybe there's some other anomaly there that you've never encountered before.
* Maybe there's an earthlike world.
* etc...

I would like to investigate further, and I'm willing to take some damage to my drive to do so if it means getting there faster. Right now, it's not practical or feasible for me to do so because I lack the time to do so. With micro-jumps, it would make it feasible.

 

[Stealthie]

* For myself, these stats don't cover where the problem lies. It is those missions that start with a defined destination, (often in a small, easily navigable system) then redirect you in a non-optional manner to a distant location. These are much harder to test, granted, but you have not included them here. Kinda negates much of the exercise from my perspective.

* 'At least half of missions with unknown arrival distances involve systems where furthest body is <5,000ls so no long arrival distances are guaranteed.' is a fine example of you ignoring the above. It's not true for many mission types. Being sent to neighbouring systems is often a possibility. ('Oh sorry we meant this planet needs a scan' / 'actually the assassination target is in this system' etc).

* Your definition of when micro-jumps would be useful is really odd (as your 'only with passenger missions' conclusion shows...). Why wouldn't it be useful in massacre missions per se, for example?

Assassination missions always redirect you to a different system to meet a contact and then back to the original system.
The point, however, was simply that if a person is desperate to do an assassination mission, surface scan mission or whatever, chances are that there will be one available which doesn't require long travel times.
If you're so short of time that you can't manage the travel, or you get bored too quickly, you can simply abandon the mission and get another one.

To complete massacre missions you usually need to cruise around within a system locating targets.
You can't really do that when you're jumping directly from A to B.
There might be occasions where there's a RES or CZ near a system's secondary and micro-jumps would give you quick access to it but, hey, I'm looking at statistical data here rather than speculative woowoo.

Feel free to provide any similar information which you feel might support your case.
If it was me, I'd probably go to somewhere like Sol and hope to find some missions to Hutton Orbital or, perhaps, Upsilon Aquarii in the hope of finding some missions to Smeaton etc.

I wasn't trying to prove anything.
My ship happened to be docked at Watson Station in Orerve (I haven't played for days) and those were the missions available there.

 

[nanite2000]

No, I think those have finally struck about the right balance on travel speed to distant systems. That's consistent with my preference for a general increase in supercruise speed but not an intra-system jump.

Then isn't it reasonable to assume that if FDev were to implement micro-jumps, they would also implement some method of balance for them too?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Ugh, I'll say it again, what is about far away stations that you cannot access in a close station?

Travelling to a far away station is not a "grind" anybody needs to do and you won't get anything particularly benefitial in doing it so I don't see a real reason to remove it if its demonstrably optional.

 

[Frenotx]

Assassination missions always redirect you to a different system to meet a contact and then back to the original system.
The point, however, was simply that if a person is desperate to do an assassination mission, surface scan mission or whatever, chances are that there will be one available which doesn't require long travel times.
If you're so short of time that you can't manage the travel, or you get bored too quickly, you can simply abandon the mission and get another one.

To complete massacre missions you usually need to cruise around within a system locating targets.
You can't really do that when you're jumping directly from A to B.
There might be occasions where there's a RES or CZ near a system's secondary and micro-jumps would give you quick access to it but, hey, I'm looking at statistical data here rather than speculative woowoo.

Feel free to provide any similar information which you feel might support your case.
If it was me, I'd probably go to somewhere like Sol and hope to find some missions to Hutton Orbital or, perhaps, Upsilon Aquarii in the hope of finding some missions to Smeaton etc.

I wasn't trying to prove anything.
My ship happened to be docked at Watson Station in Orerve (I haven't played for days) and those were the missions available there.

Assassination missions, a mission type that has it's own stat on that stats panel, so presumably one people are meant to be able to focus on, don't work like that anymore. Now you usually get directed to a system. Once there, you scan the nav beacon. The.nav beacon then tells you which body to go to in that system. Another variant sends you to a planetary outpost, and has you scan the coms tower. The tower tells you which system to go to. The point is, there's a good account of unpredictability in where those missions will take you, specifically.

 

[Stealthie]

Assassination missions, a mission type that has it's own stat on that stats panel, so presumably one people are meant to be able to focus on, don't work like that anymore. Now you usually get directed to a system. Once there, you scan the nav beacon. The.nav beacon then tells you which body to go to in that system. Another variant sends you to a planetary outpost, and has you scan the coms tower. The tower tells you which system to go to. The point is, there's a good account of unpredictability in where those missions will take you, specifically.

You're conflating the "terrorist assassination" missions with regular ones.

 

[LazyCalf]

who said "if you could have in system jumps, nothing would stop you in combat from jumping to the other star to avoid players and pvp, and then jumping back to the station on the other side"????

because what's stopping you from doing the EXACT SAME... but... to a different system?
i'd quote it but this discussion has gotten pretty big, and im not scanning through every single page of this 40 page thread to find that quote.
like that's literally stupid.
and you can't jump to stations, just parent stars.
i wouldn't have noticed if my email (for some reason) decided to take that one comment out of them all and display it in my email.

whoever you were, you made me laugh so hard i haven't laughed like that in a long time,
so thank you.

 

[Stealthie]

who said "if you could have in system jumps, nothing would stop you in combat from jumping to the other star to avoid players and pvp, and then jumping back to the station on the other side"????

because what's stopping you from doing the EXACT SAME... but... to a different system?
i'd quote it but this discussion has gotten pretty big, and im not scanning through every single page of this 40 page thread to find that quote.
like that's literally stupid.
and you can't jump to stations, just parent stars.
i wouldn't have noticed if my email (for some reason) decided to take that one comment out of them all and display it in my email.

whoever you were, you made me laugh so hard i haven't laughed like that in a long time,
so thank you.

I think that was me.

Not really sure what you mean TBH.

Sure, you can jump back out of a system, but if you're trying to get to a station IN that system, that's not going to help much cos, y'know, you always jump into a system in the SAME PLACE.

By contrast, if you could micro-jump within a system that has multiple stars (or whatever destinations work with micro-jumps), it's going to be more difficult for outlaws to predict what direction their targets are approaching from.

Don't really see anything especially amusing about that but whatever keeps you happy, I guess. [where is it]

 

[Kopachris]

Then isn't it reasonable to assume that if FDev were to implement micro-jumps, they would also implement some method of balance for them too?

It's not about balance for me, it's about the travel time and sense of scale. In my opinion, big systems could stand to feel a little smaller. It should still take at least 45 minutes to get to Hutton from the jump in point under any circumstances, in my opinion.

Here's why this is important to me. I actually enjoy being forced to take time to travel somewhere. The sense of scale and immersion gives me enormous satisfaction over the course of the game. To give another example, I noticed I actually started enjoying Skyrim more when I stopped using fast travel entirely. It took me longer to progress in the game, but I enjoyed the journey more. (And yes, I'm the type of boring person who played with Frostfall and Realistic Needs and Diseases mods too.) You might argue that Elite doesn't have any content to appreciate on the journey, but quite frankly that doesn't bother me. I enjoy sitting back and watching out the window nonetheless. I'll grant you that my opinion and experience are purely my own and may not reflect the majority. However, when I bought Elite: Dangerous in December 2014, the 1:1 scale of the universe and travel time to help with that sense were a big part of why I chose to buy it and why I continue to play it.

Just adding my voice and opinion to the mess. You're never going to convince me that any kind of intra-system jump is a good idea. If one is added to the game, of course I will use it like everyone else simply because it's there and makes the game easier, but it will detract from my enjoyment of the game.

 

[LazyCalf]

well, you cant either way, you cant determine which way anybody will jump because without a wake scanner, and fsd interdicter, you could miss them by lightyears, and both would work with an insystem jump, because you'd just wake scan the trail, whether or not they use the fsd to supercruise, hyperspace, or in system jump.
and like you said, you always jump to the same point in space per system when you system jump - exactly. exactly my point.
so nothing would change, if they jump from an outer system, they'd appear at the parent star, or if they jump to an insystem star, you'd still be able to tell.
the mechanics of this theoretical in system jump would work the exact same as it does for any other fsd charge.

it would leave a wake, a wake players could scan, it would say *insert system here* 2 (the 2, as the second star in the system) instead of saying another system, so you'd know exactly where they'd be going anyways, just like you would now.
and shooting at players makes their fsd charge 10x slower, and i wouldnt expect that to change for in system jumps either.
so nothing would change, right? so whats the problem?

to be fair, someone called me greedy because i wanted to jump from 1 star to another in the same system to save 30 minutes of wasted time, and someone replied to him saying "and expecting players to waste a whole half an hour going in a straight line isn't greedy?"
and that made me laugh too.

my main problem is when this situation happens, all i do is line myself up, lower my throttle and go play overwatch, yes, on the computer assisted cruise throttle (~50%), i can play a game of overwatch, finish it, and come back and still not be anywhere near, and full throttle to in system jumps is stupid, because you could miss slowing down by a second and miss the system by literally 10 minutes. 600x the speed of light, is incredibly fast, shocker.

if i can go play another game whilst playing this game, finish that game and come back and not had done that 1 thing i started before i tabbed out, that is a problem. not a major problem, but a problem.
the only times i now ever go past 50k light seconds to scan anything is when i have food, or listening to music, or go and watch tv, because 500k light seconds, takes upwards of 45 minutes to go to.
that's a problem, no matter who says what. i've timed it. 300k light seconds is around 35 mins. even if in system jumps will never be a thing, i would still like the game to detect me travelling through deep space and give me something, maybe i press tab when out of the gravity well, and burst speed 2x for 30 seconds, so i got 1200c for 30 seconds, and that would 36000 light seconds instead of 18000 light seconds, as it would normally be at max speed (which takes forever to get to by the way)

even if they would just increase the acceleration when you get out of a system's gravity well, so we get to 600c faster - it would be something. it's literally the most boring aspect of this game. where you literally cannot do anything but sit there and wait. and wait some more, and more waiting, oh, you've waited for 20 minutes? WELL WAIT ANOTHER 20 MINUTES.
and the money for scanning even earth like worlds isnt worth spending nearly an hour to get to.
it's a problem, and the only way the dev's will do something about it is by making them aware.
and thats what i intend to do.
because no matter the amount of excuses that get thrown at this "its not immersive" "it incentivises players to go that extra mile" - somethings for sure - a change needs to happen, because after a few, i dont. i dont even scan water worlds or eath like worlds outside of 5k light seconds anymore. because that takes around 5-7 minutes to do that travel, and i could make significantly more than that in half the time in a haz res site.

 

[LazyCalf]

it really wouldnt. i dont play games to sit there and do nothing, whilst you may enjoy the journey, i do too, but its not about enjoying the journey,
i dont think systems should be smaller.
i just think we need to go faster.
a 45 minute run, i literally tab out and play overwatch, play 1 or 2 games, come back - not even close to the system. that's a problem. in skyrim if you spent an hour running on foot - you could go end to end with plenty of time to spare, even on minimal stamina wearing heavy armour.
and don't worry, i play survival skyrim more.
but if the devs really intended for 30-40 minute travels, there needs to be adequate rewards there. last night i jumped to a system where there were 4 stars, and the furthest star away was 789k light seconds.... the planets there? all icy bodies.
clearly not working as intended, sure that's procedural generaton for you, but there should be something there, an ancient ship some decent rare resources in bulk, something...

as it stands, unless there's an ammonia world, water or earth like, there's literally nothing to incentivise you to go that far, and even then, i would argue going that far to scan a few rare planets isnt even worth it, because you could just speed jump through systems and make more money quicker, and see more sight's and systems whilst you're at it, and as an added bonus, keep you mentally stimulated too..

well,
as mentally stimulating as jump, scoop, honk, system map, jump can be...

 

[LazyCalf]

How about that same point but for simple sanity's sake and out of respect for adults' time?
I'm not endorsing simplifying the game, if anythign it'd be all the way to the contrary.

Flying in a straight line with absolutely nothing to do, see, no need to steer or strategically consider anything for 30 minutes and more is not depth though, it's simply plain ridiculous. It's not a challenge, it's not dangerous, it's a big, long ludicrous nothing and it does not convey the scale of space in the slightest, it only conveys emptiness and lack of clever game design to fill it out.

thank god someone is seeing reason.
there's billions of planets out there, and most players who've left this game is because they've enjoyed the THOUGHT of exploring, but in reality.. it's just a big, boring, waste of time.
i'm not a child i have responsiblities in the outside world. i want to explore but i dont want to spend 11 hours just to map a handful of systems. my last trip - i calculated, and in real time, i spent 5 days,11hours and 26 minutes, to visit 500 stars, in a fully kitted out aspX with a almost perfect, well, everything. not only did it take literally forever to kit my asp out like that farming engineers, that it never even made much of a difference anyways, just lowering the amount of jumps i need to do to get to my destination, but when you spend 20-45 minutes doing literally nothing, its not fun. i didnt pay money i earned to sit there and do nothing. even if no changes were made to in system, just something to do. i literally play other games whilst playing this game, including pubg and overwatch, just because i like my insanity.

whilst in system jumps was my topic, it's not the be all or end all for me - i like the idea of going between stars and that feeling of emptiness... what i dont like is that feeling of emptiness for an hour straight. and really, whilst i love exploring, now, if i jump to a system in this build of the game (because i got so sick of doing nothing), if any planet (earth like, water, ammonia, whatever) is over 1k light seconds away- i dont bother. it's not worth the extra 30% profit to scan, it's literally not. i could do some data delivery missions in the bubble and make more money per hour doing that, than to scan earth like planets any further than 5k light seconds away.

so thank you, someone who sees reason.
i know there's jokes and memes about ED players are so hardcore they like feature's like this, but travelling 500k light seconds to a planet you cant even land on is the equivalent of having a boss on an rpg with like 6 billion health and it takes so insanely long to kill, but it isnt a hard boss, you could just click on it and go afk for half an hour until you've killed it.

atleast, that's the best comparison i could come up with. its a grind to get somewhere, and it shouldnt be that way. and most of all you dont even get adequately rewarded for the commitment you put into travelling there, so thanks. atleast somebody sees reason.
not everybody has the time in life to spend most of their gaming time going in a straight line and doing nothing else.
last week i only had time to play about 2 hours a day every day, and because i was 16000 light years away from the bubble, exploring was the only thing i could do, a nice little gaming project, except that every day, those 2 hours i spent, i could only dew a handful of systems a day, and it just didnt feel good at all.
even if they dont change any of it, just give me a mini game to do, some sort of system where i can do some trading on a small scale on my lap panel in a bubble or something, a minigame, anything.
not everybody has the 15 hours a day to sink in a single game going in a straight line doing nothing.
so,
kudos to you sir.
atleast some people see reason.

 

[Tarman]

How about that same point but for simple sanity's sake and out of respect for adults' time?
I'm not endorsing simplifying the game, if anythign it'd be all the way to the contrary.

Flying in a straight line with absolutely nothing to do, see, no need to steer or strategically consider anything for 30 minutes and more is not depth though, it's simply plain ridiculous. It's worse than truck simulator where at least you have to stay on the road, steer, look out for other cars etc. It's not a challenge, it's not dangerous, it's a big, long ludicrous nothing.
I think it's fine to have a sense of scale but I think it's way out of common sense's proportion right now.

3 minutes: fine.
10 minutes: dear god, if really absolutely necessary in some extreme cases of exploring.
30+ minutes: you're having a laugh.

This is me though, I do appreciate how some may enjoy it. Perhaps with better graphics and at least a chance of something happening, being hit by a seagul, solar winds, neutron blast, radiation belts warning, anything to at least know something may actually happen that will require your agency as a player of a computer game.

While I agree that SC certainly needs spicing up by some type of something, this whole "respecting peoples' time" phrase needs to be dropped by everybody; it's a meaningless beatstick.

We are pretending to be spacemen in the far future, except the boxes we use to pretend with cost waaaaay more than what we had when we were 5. Then we sit around in here and talk and argue and dream at great length about how best to pretend to be a future spaceman. If anyone is disrespecting our free time, especially adults, it is us. The quality of our self-inflicted disrespect in terms of pretend space piloting can be discussed but it's an inherent property.

 

[the source 0179]

thank god someone is seeing reason.
there's billions of planets out there, and most players who've left this game is because they've enjoyed the THOUGHT of exploring, but in reality.. it's just a big, boring, waste of time.
i'm not a child i have responsiblities in the outside world. i want to explore but i dont want to spend 11 hours just to map a handful of systems. my last trip - i calculated, and in real time, i spent 5 days,11hours and 26 minutes, to visit 500 stars, in a fully kitted out aspX with a almost perfect, well, everything. not only did it take literally forever to kit my asp out like that farming engineers, that it never even made much of a difference anyways, just lowering the amount of jumps i need to do to get to my destination, but when you spend 20-45 minutes doing literally nothing, its not fun. i didnt pay money i earned to sit there and do nothing. even if no changes were made to in system, just something to do. i literally play other games whilst playing this game, including pubg and overwatch, just because i like my insanity.

whilst in system jumps was my topic, it's not the be all or end all for me - i like the idea of going between stars and that feeling of emptiness... what i dont like is that feeling of emptiness for an hour straight. and really, whilst i love exploring, now, if i jump to a system in this build of the game (because i got so sick of doing nothing), if any planet (earth like, water, ammonia, whatever) is over 1k light seconds away- i dont bother. it's not worth the extra 30% profit to scan, it's literally not. i could do some data delivery missions in the bubble and make more money per hour doing that, than to scan earth like planets any further than 5k light seconds away.

so thank you, someone who sees reason.
i know there's jokes and memes about ED players are so hardcore they like feature's like this, but travelling 500k light seconds to a planet you cant even land on is the equivalent of having a boss on an rpg with like 6 billion health and it takes so insanely long to kill, but it isnt a hard boss, you could just click on it and go afk for half an hour until you've killed it.

atleast, that's the best comparison i could come up with. its a grind to get somewhere, and it shouldnt be that way. and most of all you dont even get adequately rewarded for the commitment you put into travelling there, so thanks. atleast somebody sees reason.
not everybody has the time in life to spend most of their gaming time going in a straight line and doing nothing else.
last week i only had time to play about 2 hours a day every day, and because i was 16000 light years away from the bubble, exploring was the only thing i could do, a nice little gaming project, except that every day, those 2 hours i spent, i could only dew a handful of systems a day, and it just didnt feel good at all.
even if they dont change any of it, just give me a mini game to do, some sort of system where i can do some trading on a small scale on my lap panel in a bubble or something, a minigame, anything.
not everybody has the 15 hours a day to sink in a single game going in a straight line doing nothing.
so,
kudos to you sir.
atleast some people see reason.

Maybe something like micro managing your npc crew. Buy a ship for them and send them on missions or mining or mats and data collection etc. Where you manage them from your ship thousands of lys away. I mean your paying them anyway for just sitting there. And the risk is if you haven't trained them up enough or send them somewhere or to do something dangerous you lose the rebuy and the crew. The more money you pump into the ship and the more time training them the more likely the are to succeed. You could also use your crew to move ships or modules around while out in the black.

 

[Kopachris]

Maybe something like micro managing your npc crew. Buy a ship for them and send them on missions or mining or mats and data collection etc. Where you manage them from your ship thousands of lys away. I mean your paying them anyway for just sitting there. And the risk is if you haven't trained them up enough or send them somewhere or to do something dangerous you lose the rebuy and the crew. The more money you pump into the ship and the more time training them the more likely the are to succeed. You could also use your crew to move ships or modules around while out in the black.

I'd love to be able to hire useful crew. Being able to manage them from your ship while in SC sounds like a great idea, too.