In what way is griefing a good thing to have in a game?

[Aashenfox]

Has anyone shared a legitimate, genuine story of being truly "griefed" yet? No? That's funny, we've had nearly a solid day for people to share their tales of woe, and so far all I've seen are acceptable moments of space violence in a competitive multi player game that not only encourages players to solve their problems with weapons, but also quite generously provides a number of tools for the players who are more risk averse to avoid dangerous situations.

People, c'mon now, can't ANY of you actually come up with just one teensy little story of griefing to support the OPs premise?

I can give you a few. One for starters...And remember, I support the griefer's right to exist...

A commander in my squadron the other day, coming back from an exploration trip, took his eye off the ball, and unluckily for him, in the middle of nowhere, was pounced upon and lost his data.

Even by Morbad's reckoning, which I agree 99% with, this was a 'no reason, no motive, I'm just going ot kill this person who has not a single chance, for nothing, no reward except my own self gratification and no consequence that I wasn't already living with (notoriety)', act of griefing.

What did I suggest to my commander as a solution to this?

Come out with the squadron and we'll help you practice escaping in friendly dogfights, and also, take your combat ship to the edge of the bubble, then call for your explorer, and do the same when you return. Easy. Now this feller has no need to fear griefers in open any more, and if he does see one, he knows he's got backup. He's having more fun now than if we went to solo or mobius and without blocking or banning his griefer (though I absolutely DO encourage people to block others whose behaviour they don't approve of, the mechanism is there, use it).

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I'm not a snowflake, I take my knocks and learn from them. That really is the difference, promise, no facetiousness intended.

A computer game without danger or adversity is no game at all, it's a sandbox. Luckily FD gives people a sandbox too, Solo. There's nothing you can say that will make me go BACK to a previous and obsolete attitude on this (that griefing shouldn't be possible), or to prevent me from helping you to see why this is needed.

It should be possible, SOMEWHERE, and if not in Open, where?

With respect, you're on a forum discussing computer game bullying. I hate to break it to you but you're a snowflake. So am I. Embrace it. Don't be ashamed.

 

[Vorxian]

The first example looks interesting and fun. The second example looks boring and dull.

That's what the hoodies think to!

 

[Stigbob]

Has anyone shared a legitimate, genuine story of being truly "griefed" yet? No? That's funny, we've had nearly a solid day for people to share their tales of woe, and so far all I've seen are acceptable moments of space violence in a competitive multi player game that not only encourages players to solve their problems with weapons, but also quite generously provides a number of tools for the players who are more risk averse to avoid dangerous situations.

People, c'mon now, can't ANY of you actually come up with just one teensy little story of griefing to support the OPs premise?

I used to be based out of Lave. The station rammers were fun the first few times, but no risk at all. Then they got to be boring, then bypassing them became a regular chore a bit like CG's and engineers bases can be depending who's there. So I blocked them all for being boring after about a year of it.

Just because they failed to grief me doesn't mean they were not trying to spoil the game, which I'd say is griefing in a nutshell.

I extracted an amazing amount of salt from them in the forum as well, which is always good for a laugh.

 

[Aashenfox]

With respect, you're on a forum discussing computer game bullying. I hate to break it to you but you're a snowflake. So am I. Embrace it. Don't be ashamed.

lol, I know myself very well. I don't pretend anything, and I'm not ashamed to be different. What I am not, is a special snowflake, and never have been. I am all about accepting consequences and making the best you can in an evil world, that if you can't accept, is your responsiblity to change, nobody else's.

That and everything else about honour, respect and taking life on the chin.

I used to box (low amateur level, nothing special). Don't know if you've ever done any combat sports, but you'll soon have the snowflakes beaten out of you if you do. REAL adversity helps you see 'video game' adversity, for what it really is.

Rocky said it best "Life isn't about how hard you can hit, life is about how hard you can GET hit and keep getting up, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done."

 

[Stealthie]

People, c'mon now, can't ANY of you actually come up with just one teensy little story of griefing to support the OPs premise?

I recall seeing a group of 4 people station-ramming and that one of the names seemed familiar.

A bit of searching revealed that the person was here, whining that the reason they do stuff like that is 'cos "there's nothing else to do" in the game.
A bit more searching, on Reddit, revealed that this muppet has been doing the same thing, in the same place, since 2015.

And he's here, moaning that there's "nothing to do" in ED, with no apparent sense of irony.

Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[jasonbarron]

I used to be based out of Lave. The station rammers were fun the first few times, but no risk at all. Then they got to be boring, then bypassing them became a regular chore a bit like CG's and engineers bases can be depending who's there. So I blocked them all for being boring after about a year of it.

Just because they failed to grief me doesn't mean they were not trying to spoil the game, which I'd say is griefing in a nutshell.

I extracted an amazing amount of salt from them in the forum as well, which is always good for a laugh.

So, the example was you griefing them on the forum? Okay dokey.

I can give you a few. One for starters...And remember, I support the griefer's right to exist...

A commander in my squadron the other day, coming back from an exploration trip, took his eye off the ball, and unluckily for him, in the middle of nowhere, was pounced upon and lost his data.

Even by Morbad's reckoning, which I agree 99% with, this was a 'no reason, no motive, I'm just going ot kill this person who has not a single chance, for nothing, no reward except my own self gratification and no consequence that I wasn't already living with (notoriety)', act of griefing.

What did I suggest to my commander as a solution to this?

Come out with the squadron and we'll help you practice escaping in friendly dogfights, and also, take your combat ship to the edge of the bubble, then call for your explorer, and do the same when you return. Easy. Now this feller has no need to fear griefers in open any more, and if he does see one, he knows he's got backup. He's having more fun now than if we went to solo or mobius and without blocking or banning his griefer (though I absolutely DO encourage people to block others whose behaviour they don't approve of, the mechanism is there, use it).

I don't consider one random act of violence on a member of a wing to break the threshold of acceptability and edge into griefing territory. I mean, yeah, blowing up explorers is on the low end of the spectrum, but still acceptable. Besides, how was the aggressor to know the guy was an explorer anyhow?

 

[JustJon]

Just get a PS4 and play in open - never anyone there anyway!

 

[MottiKhan]

Has anyone shared a legitimate, genuine story of being truly "griefed" yet? No? That's funny, we've had nearly a solid day for people to share their tales of woe, and so far all I've seen are acceptable moments of space violence in a competitive multi player game that not only encourages players to solve their problems with weapons, but also quite generously provides a number of tools for the players who are more risk averse to avoid dangerous situations.

People, c'mon now, can't ANY of you actually come up with just one teensy little story of griefing to support the OPs premise?

I have one. I was flying my alt that hunts for seal clubbers. A well known station rammer was beating his freagle up to prepare for suiciding against speeders so the station would destroy the "killing" ship. I kept my speed just below 99 and flew like a noob toward the slot. He slammed into me and died. Of course, I wasn't speeding, so I was still there when he respawned and started beating himself up again. During that time, I backed away from the station and came back in as if I was another noob pilot on final approach.

It took a few times of his dying before he paused and seemed to be trying to figure out what my deal was. Over the next few ramming attempts, I moved laterally out of his path just before he would have hit me. He eventually gave up.

So, I guess I griefed the poor guy. My bad.

 

[Morbad]

It's also kind of interesting that you're saying a purely PvP environment wouldn't be palatable for PvPers because that rather suggests that, as many people think, most PvPers aren't interested in a fair fight.

In Elite, most fair fights are organized. The rest of PvP features people that have goals in mind, and fair fights are incidental to being caught off guard or not being able to bring more friends.

Unfortunately we do.


Open as it is



Open PvE only

In my experience the latter is significantly more common in the Open than the former.

The first example looks interesting and fun. The second example looks boring and dull.

Rocky said it best "Life isn't about how hard you can hit, life is about how hard you can GET hit and keep getting up, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done."

This sounds more like "how to wind up with CTE at the age of 45".

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

It's something that has always perplexed me. I'm all for pvp with someone who's up for it but not ganking people who just want an open mmo experience without some idiot hell-bent on ruining the game for people. Ganking ruins ED in my opinion. You can't do CGs in open as you'll invariably qet these guys exercising their right (as decided by fdev) to anti-social behaviour. I'm of the belief these guys likely lack the courage for confrontation in real life and so enjoy the tingle they get from being a keyboard warrior. I don't get what it's supposed to add to the game? So can someone explain why ED benefits from a small subset of players being encouraged to actively attempt to make another's game experience unpleasant?

Please note - this is a GAME. I've heard the 'space is a dangerous place' sort of argument but it isn't space. It's a video game. I've also not seen a rebuy screen from a ganker since my lowly days of flying an un-engineered Cobra mk3 so i'm not embittered by some recent altercation.

It would be good if someone from FDev could advise what they see as the benefit of allowing it. I know there will be a raft of 'tough guys' with their usual responses to this kind of question. I'm just going to ignore them.

I'm yet to hear a reasonable solution that doesn't upset one side or the other,the new CP update at least adds a little more of a challenge if murder is your play style.

 

[Stigbob]

So, the example was you griefing them on the forum? Okay dokey.

Not really it was more of them having a bit of a tantrum at being told "I will not play video games with you and you can't do anything about it".

 

[jasonbarron]

Not really it was more of them having a bit of a tantrum at being told "I will not play video games with you and you can't do anything about it".

C'mon Stigbob, that was funny and you know it!

 

[swiftsure]

(I have not had time to read all 19 pages, so apologies if this has already been said)

Why not look at how other games deal with griefing? For example WoW used to have separate PVP and PVE servers but has recently introduced a "War Mode" across all realms. People turn on/off the pvp flag in a main city and then only see others with the same flag out in the world.

If Elite did something similar in Open, you would enable/disable the pvp flag in main stations, then only see other people with the same flag when in supercruise/instances etc. This would likely remove the need for groups like Mobius, reduce unwanted PVP, hopefully reduce combat logging as only those who favour pvp would be attackable.

 

[Bortas]

I play almost exclusively in open, but I have yet to see one of those mythical "griefers".

Sometimes I get attacked by other commanders, which I perceive as an enrichment to my gameplay, making an otherwise completeley risk-free universe feel a little more dangerous. Unfortunately such encounters are extremely rare outside of hotspots like community goals.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I'm yet to hear a reasonable solution that doesn't upset one side or the other,the new CP update at least adds a little more of a challenge if murder is your play style.

I've heard one or two that I believe seem fair, but tend to involve higher risk for ganking....which in turn leads to unleashing abuse from gankers who claim to enjoy the 'risk' of pvp without the risk of pvp.

 

[Aashenfox]

In Elite, most fair fights are organized. The rest of PvP features people that have goals in mind, and fair fights are incidental to being caught off guard or not being able to bring more friends.



In my experience the latter is significantly more common in the Open than the former.







This sounds more like "how to wind up with CTE at the age of 45".

Well, if you take away the blunt force trauma component, it's good advice for life.

There's a better way to say it actually...

"Give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept and the wisdom to know the difference."

...or....

"Give me the strength to fly in Open and risk getting ganked, give me the courage to come back and have a go at those that gank me, and the wisdom to know when I should have clicked 'solo'.

 

[Stigbob]

C'mon Stigbob, that was funny and you know it!

It wasn't just funny it was true.

 

[Bigmaec]

I play almost exclusively in open, but I have yet to see one of those mythical "griefers".

Sometimes I get attacked by other commanders, which I perceive as an enrichment to my gameplay, making an otherwise completeley risk-free universe feel a little more dangerous. Unfortunately such encounters are extremely rare outside of hotspots like community goals.

Interesting, as some of your wing/squadron mates (signature) are well known "mythical griefers"

 

[Krash]

Has anyone shared a legitimate, genuine story of being truly "griefed" yet? No? That's funny, we've had nearly a solid day for people to share their tales of woe, and so far all I've seen are acceptable moments of space violence in a competitive multi player game that not only encourages players to solve their problems with weapons, but also quite generously provides a number of tools for the players who are more risk averse to avoid dangerous situations.

People, c'mon now, can't ANY of you actually come up with just one teensy little story of griefing to support the OPs premise?

What is your definition of griefing?