Incrementally Improving PowerPlay - Make PowerPlay Open-Only

[Khan Tannhauser]

It would be inaccessible to console players without premium platform access - as they can only play in Solo. While it would remain accessible, in the same way that Open is, to PC players, it would very likely be unpalatable to those players who don't find PvP to be "fun" - in which case they'd probably not bother with it either.

Yeah, it would be inaccessible without platform subscription, like any other multiplayer game. Most console players I know are already paying for it anyway.

The issue at hand is that all players bought access to Powerplay and can currently engage in it any game mode - and only some players would benefit from PvP-gating it to Open.

All players would benefit from Open Only, even those who don't PVP. If you want to know how this is possible, give the OP another read. I know the author of this post and he doesn't PVP at all.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah, it would be inaccessible without platform subscription, like any other multiplayer game. Most console players I know are already paying for it anyway.

it is, however, currently accessible to those players - so gating Powerplay to Open play would be removing a game feature from those players.

All players would benefit from Open Only, even those who don't PVP. If you want to know how this is possible, give the OP another read. I know the author of this post and he doesn't PVP at all.

The fact that some players would lose access to the feature means that it is demonstrably false to assert that "all players would benefit from Open only". It's also an opinion - that not all players share.

One player's tolerance for PvP does not have any bearing on the player-base as a whole. For some, PvP is a tedious and predictable waste of their game time, regardless of how it is packaged.

 

[Dragsham]

Nor do l. Check my inara... I do not partake in PvP. But l do recognise it's essential to have open only for all platforms. A level playing field. Anything else is broken and is why were where were at

 

[Robert Maynard]

Nor do l. Check my inara... I do not partake in PvP. But l do recognise it's essential to have open only for all platforms. A level playing field. Anything else is broken and is why were where were at

We are where we are because we all chose to buy a game where (in-the-same-instance) PvP is optional - and not all of us seem to be able to accept that fact.

 

[Northpin]

That is impressive mental gymnastics to try and justify that the mode is not about players directly competing against one another.

No gymastics whatsoever.
Powerplay is just another PVE feature of the game that can be used as a justification for PVP activites. Pretty much like any other activity, BGS included
But PVP is not mandatory for any aspect of the game bar CQC - which is not even part of the main game.

This is how ED is built - a PVE game that allows PVP in its purest optional form

 

[Rubbernuke]

I still find it funny people don't see that the PvE aspects are paper thin in Powerplay as it is- combat powers gather merits in CZs, hauling powers haul stuff. All powers shoot to UM.

Without NPCs acting as gatekeepers during and outside these activities it kind of demands PvP to work as an actual game, otherwise you are playing an undending bland CG x n systems and n power activities.

 

[Northpin]

I still find it funny people don't see that the PvE aspects are paper thin in Powerplay as it is- combat powers gather merits in CZs, hauling powers haul stuff. All powers shoot to UM.

Without NPCs acting as gatekeepers during and outside these activities it kind of demands PvP to work as an actual game, otherwise you are playing an undending bland CG x n systems and n power activities.

Well, that's how the game we all purchased is built.
A series of CG - but they give the option to some players to spice it up a bit (if they find other players with the same mindset)
Not forcing them, giving them the option.

However - when i proposed that all the PP merits are gained only by PVP kills - thus making PP a pure PVP activity, everyone went: Wait! What?

Why? because basically no one wants to have 10-15 minutes fights for 10 merits, correct? (Or not even 10 merits since after 5 minutes the losing side can wake out)
While everyone dreams about recreating the Battle of Endor in the name of a Power or another Power

This is not that game
This is the game where everyone is entitled to forge their own path - in solo or in pg or in open.

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

it is, however, currently accessible to those players - so gating Powerplay to Open play would be removing a game feature from those players.

The fact that some players would lose access to the feature means that it is demonstrably false to assert that "all players would benefit from Open only". It's also an opinion - that not all players share.

One player's tolerance for PvP does not have any bearing on the player-base as a whole. For some, PvP is a tedious and predictable waste of their game time, regardless of how it is packaged.

You mention a lot the concept of "PVP-gating" as if it was a bad thing. Powerplay is all about conflict of player groups fighting with each other. Nothing makes more sense than "PVP-gating" it. The alternative to "PVP-gating" is leaving things as they are and see Powerplay die. I'm repeating myself but Powerplay is opt-in and if someone doesn't tolerate PVP and find it tedious that's perfectly fine. They have all the other features Elite offers to enjoy the game in Solo.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well, that's how the game we all purchased is built.
A series of CG - but they give the option to some players to spice it up a bit (if they find other players with the same mindset)
Not forcing them, giving them the option.

But thats the thing- by doing it this way you a) duplicate (badly) what already exists and b) unbalance the modes because NPCs can't replicate players.

What you are saying is really: solo is easy, open is hard- which in a competitive mode is silly, hence FD offering to have a bonus for open play once.

However - when i proposed that all the PP merits are gained only by PVP kills - thus making PP a pure PVP activity, everyone went: Wait! What?

Because in the context of Powerplay would not work- it could be gamed for one. The gameplay comes not from killing each other but by interfering with that powers plans.

Why? because basically no one wants to have 10-15 minutes fights for 10 merits, correct? (Or not even 10 merits since after 5 minutes the losing side can wake out)
While everyone dreams about recreating the Battle of Endor in the name of a Power or another Power

And like whats been said hundreds of times over, the gameplay comes from you overcoming other players to enact your goals- you gather but rather than have 100% success outside this phase you then have other players to mess that up. With NPCs this is impossible because by their nature they can't offer joined up strategic thinking.

This is not that game
This is the game where everyone is entitled to forge their own path - in solo or in pg or in open.

The BGS is the game you are thinking of- the BGS now is what Powerplay was supposed to be with proper balancing between modes and varied gameplay. Powerplay is not that deliberately- the variety should come from you overcoming other pledges.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You mention a lot the concept of "PVP-gating" as if it was a bad thing.

Indeed - as not all players enjoy PvP - and we all bought a game where PvP is optional in all game features (except CQC).

That some players bought the game for what it is not, rather than what it is, and are seeking to have it changed to suit their play-style preference, to the detriment of players who don't share their play-style preference, is obvious.

Powerplay is all about conflict of player groups fighting with each other. Nothing makes more sense than "PVP-gating" it.

While it offers competition between groups of players, it does not require any participant to engage in direct PvP. While PvP gating it may be the preferred outcome for some of those players who enjoy PvP, they are not the only players who require to be considered - and not all players agree with those who seek to PvP gate Powerplay.

The alternative to "PVP-gating" is leaving things as they are and see Powerplay die.

There are many possible outcomes - that's only one of them.

I'm repeating myself but Powerplay is opt-in and if someone doesn't tolerate PVP and find it tedious that's perfectly fine. They have all the other features Elite offers to enjoy the game in Solo.

Which refers to a post-modification version of Powerplay that does not and may never exist. As Powerplay is implemented in all three game modes, one need not tolerate PvP to engage in it at this time.

This proposal is but one of many made over the years that attempts to persuade Frontier to PvP-gate one or other game feature - it's not even unique - as many have suggested PvP-gating Powerplay before now - a potential change to Open only Powerplay even formed part of Frontier's investigative Flash Topics of May'18 even though Sandro was at pains to make clear that Powerplay was the only feature that Frontier would even possibly consider for Open only (which means that the BGS is not) and that the Flash Topics were an investigation, not a fait accompli, so no guarantee that any of the proposals would be implemented. Frontier haven't yet advised us of the result of that investigation other than Will advising us that some of the proposals in the first Flash Topic thread were being considered.

We'll see, in time, if Frontier choose to make Powerplay Open only - but I'm not holding my breath for the outcome, given that it's nearly two and a half years since the Flash Topics.

I suspect that Odyssey may offer some form of PvP content as the Sphere of Combat section of the original Odyssey announcement thread seems to suggests it it will, in my opinion - and, if it does, I'll be glad to see a new PvP feature for players to engage in.

 

[Northpin]

But thats the thing- by doing it this way you a) duplicate (badly) what already exists and b) unbalance the modes because NPCs can't replicate players.

A lot of people want to play alone or only with their friends only.
And they dont mind to haul their 5000 merits leisurely or to gain their 5000 merits leisurely killing npc for 10 merits a pop

An open only feature will simply remove them from the game.

while the current setup offers the most inclusive play options for everyone.

 

[Kaocraft]

It would be inaccessible to console players without premium platform access - as they can only play in Solo. While it would remain accessible, in the same way that Open is, to PC players, it would very likely be unpalatable to those players who don't find PvP to be "fun" - in which case they'd probably not bother with it either.

The issue at hand is that all players bought access to Powerplay and can currently engage in it any game mode - and only some players would benefit from PvP-gating it to Open.

Then I guess you didn't read the OP's proposal. Because it wouldn't prevent solo players from doing all the same things they already do.

 

[Rubbernuke]

A lot of people want to play alone or only with their friends only.
And they dont mind to haul their 5000 merits leisurely or to gain their 5000 merits leisurely killing npc for 10 merits a pop

An open only feature will simply remove them from the game.

while the current setup offers the most inclusive play options for everyone.

Which, going by numbers...is a huge amount.......

Powerplay has to be harmonised one way or the other- for the past 5 years its been pan modal and played exactly as you describe....

A lot of people want to play alone or only with their friends only.
And they dont mind to haul their 5000 merits leisurely or to gain their 5000 merits leisurely killing npc for 10 merits a pop

.....and has been a roaring sucess, hasn't it?

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

Indeed - as not all players enjoy PvP - and we all bought a game where PvP is optional in all game features (except CQC).

That some players bought the game for what it is not, rather than what it is, and are seeking to have it changed to suit their play-style preference, to the detriment of players who don't share their play-style preference, is obvious.

While it offers competition between groups of players, it does not require any participant to engage in direct PvP. While PvP gating it may be the preferred outcome for some of those players who enjoy PvP, they are not the only players who require to be considered - and not all players agree with those who seek to PvP gate Powerplay.

There are many possible outcomes - that's only one of them.

Which refers to a post-modification version of Powerplay that does not and may never exist. As Powerplay is implemented in all three game modes, one need not tolerate PvP to engage in it at this time.

This proposal is but one of many made over the years that attempts to persuade Frontier to PvP-gate one or other game feature - it's not even unique - as many have suggested PvP-gating Powerplay before now - a potential change to Open only Powerplay even formed part of Frontier's investigative Flash Topics of May'18 even though Sandro was at pains to make clear that Powerplay was the only feature that Frontier would even possibly consider for Open only (which means that the BGS is not) and that the Flash Topics were an investigation, not a fait accompli, so no guarantee that any of the proposals would be implemented. Frontier haven't yet advised us of the result of that investigation other than Will advising us that some of the proposals in the first Flash Topic thread were being considered.

We'll see, in time, if Frontier choose to make Powerplay Open only - but I'm not holding my breath for the outcome, given that it's nearly two and a half years since the Flash Topics.

I suspect that Odyssey may offer some form of PvP content as the Sphere of Combat section of the original Odyssey announcement thread seems to suggests it it will, in my opinion - and, if it does, I'll be glad to see a new PvP feature for players to engage in.

At this point you're just repeating the same things over and over and this is getting ridiculous. We could get this thread to 200 pages and you'll still refuse to understand Powerplay is dying and Open Only is the only way to make it viable without rewriting it from scratch.

 

[Northpin]

.....and has been a roaring sucess, hasn't it?

Probably, else everyone would be in open and those threads would make no sense, right?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Probably, else everyone would be in open and those threads would make no sense, right?

A population of 1000 between 11 powers (which is the estimate of dedicated pledges) is not viable- its tiny when Powerplay demands numbers to even out power choices between players.

Can you call that a sucess worth keeping?

 

[Northpin]

Then I guess you didn't read the OP's proposal. Because it wouldn't prevent solo players from doing all the same things they already do.

Not sure if i'm missing something, but OP's proposal sounds like this.

Make PowerPlay Open-Only

Any merits or PowerPlay cargo in a ship that is not in Open (i.e. when the Commander logs in to Solo or a Private Group) will be either discarded, or converted to a form that earns the player merits if delivered or turned in, but those merits will not affect the Power.

It would definitely prevent solo players and PG players from taking part in PP by not taking their contribution into account.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Then I guess you didn't read the OP's proposal. Because it wouldn't prevent solo players from doing all the same things they already do.

Not at all - it is clear from the OP that players in Solo and Private Groups could gain the rewards while having no effect on Powerplay - affecting Powerplay would be reserved for those who play in Open - which is rather insulting to those players who don't play in Open given that they bought the right to affect Powerplay from any game mode as part of the base game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Not at all - it is clear from the OP that players in Solo and Private Groups could gain the rewards while having no effect on Powerplay - affecting Powerplay would be reserved for those who play in Open - which is rather insulting to those players who don't play in Open given that they bought the right to affect Powerplay from any game mode as part of the base game.

And yet were never playing to the same risk as those in Open were....if you have a competitive feature that favours real time direct intervention, its counterproductive to have a way to circumvent that. The BGS works in all modes because its an abstracted, aggregate of activity, while Powerplay activity can be traced to individuals in real time.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And yet were never playing to the same risk as those in Open were....

.... because in this game PvP is an optional extra for those who wish to engage in it and is not required in any game feature (apart from CQC). Frontier set the challenge posed by the NPCs in the game taking into account all players. It is noted that that challenge may not meet with the desires or expectations of some players.

if you have a competitive feature that favours real time direct intervention, its counterproductive to have a way to circumvent that.

If it is designed to be a competitive PvP only feature, yes. As implemented it is not a feature that requires PvP to be part of the competition.

The BGS works in all modes because its an abstracted, aggregate of activity, while Powerplay activity can be traced to individuals in real time.

The BGS works in a similar way, just with a slower "tick" - and some players have been complaining about players in Solo and Private Groups "affecting their BGS" for years. Michael Brookes was quite clear in his response when asked.