Ships Introducing the Diamondback Explorer

[Zelos1983]

Thanks guys for your help!

After some consideration I decided to get the DBE. Just added a bit larger power distributors to it so it can boost.
In the end, I choose it over the T6 because of the higher jump range and the coolness factor. And yes, it scoops slower, so it isn't so fast. Still, a huge improvement over my all purpose cobra.

 

[himurastewie]

I bought the Scout when the update went live. She's a fun little ship. Did a bit of RES hunting out near Alioth while searching for an A4 plant.

I'm still salty that FD were so damn close with this ship, but refused to actually fix it, while instead making a bigger version with the same outfitting issues, as well as a tremendous weight and agility problem. Oh well. I'll stick with my Scout and hope they do better with the next round.

Also, the Scout is certainly not cheaper than a Cobra, as was described in the first page of this thread (unless they're talking prices after outfitting). Might want to update that text, moderator, not that anyone is reading it at this point.

 

[Nerdicus]

I bought the Scout when the update went live. She's a fun little ship. Did a bit of RES hunting out near Alioth while searching for an A4 plant.

I'm still salty that FD were so damn close with this ship, but refused to actually fix it, while instead making a bigger version with the same outfitting issues, as well as a tremendous weight and agility problem. Oh well. I'll stick with my Scout and hope they do better with the next round.

Also, the Scout is certainly not cheaper than a Cobra, as was described in the first page of this thread (unless they're talking prices after outfitting). Might want to update that text, moderator, not that anyone is reading it at this point.

I was shocked at how bad the pitch is for the DBE. I'll still keep her for exploration, but I question its ability in any kind of fight.

 

[B33 ENN]

I'm still salty that FD were so damn close with this ship, but refused to actually fix it, while instead making a bigger version with the same outfitting issues, as well as a tremendous weight and agility problem. Oh well. I'll stick with my Scout and hope they do better with the next round.

I'm convinced the DB Explorer was not initially planned, but kitbashed later out of the Scout after the feedback. The late name change was one clue, but the real thing that made me think this is turreted weapons on the large hardpoint clipping completely through the ground because its landing gear clearance is too low.

Have to check, but I don't think the FDL or other ships with underside hardpoint have this issue...?

Anyway, it's still good they did it because if anything, it shows a modular ship design could be very beneficial to the game in creating purposed derivatives. I mean, these days car manufacturers reduce costs by creating a chassis that can be adapted to a variety of models...

 

[puca]

I don't think it was due to the feedback. For one thing, art assets take a while to do. For another, they ignored the feedback itself, and made the scoop even worse .

 

[jabberwalkie]

I was shocked at how bad the pitch is for the DBE. I'll still keep her for exploration, but I question its ability in any kind of fight.

Fighting in the DBE (for PvE purposes) takes a bit of creative flight. To aid in the pitch and keep the target within view, sometimes backwards flight and using the thrusters to go up and down vertically helps based on my experience. It isn't a ship I would take into an RES though. That large hard point though....

 

[B33 ENN]

I don't think it was due to the feedback. For one thing, art assets take a while to do. For another, they ignored the feedback itself, and made the scoop even worse .

I kind of want to believe that too, but the large hardpoint weapons disappearing into the ground just make me suspicious.

...It isn't a ship I would take into an RES though. That large hard point though....

I was wondering about that. I'm loving the Scout for RES, but not sure about spending money on the big sister for the same purpose. Anything else is pointless as the Cobra does it all better. Maybe the Vulture still is the better way to go.

 

[Ziljan]

I bought both ships and have been testing them out. I love the way they both look. The best two things about each ship is the jump range and the heat management. The worst two things about both ships is that they don't have enough compartment slots and their power distribution severely limits their combat capabilities.


SCOUT:


the Good
better jump range than any combat ship in its class
excellent heat management
fun to fly
corners and spins quickly
high peak boost speed (but very short)
looks great
semi-small target
harder to hit sub-systems


the Bad
weak shields
weak power distribution (this makes the shields even weaker)
loses boost speed very quickly
can't stop on a dime
not enough small compartments
undersized main compartments


EXPLORER:


the Good:
3rd best jump range in the game
excellent heat management
cheapest ship for a class 3 hardpoint
can absolutely shred smaller ships
moderately high armor
more compartments than a Scout

the Bad:
worst maneuverability of any small ship
weak power distribution
not enough small/med compartments
undersized main compartment
shields are not very strong
top speed is abysmal

 

[himurastewie]

I'm convinced the DB Explorer was not initially planned, but kitbashed later out of the Scout after the feedback. The late name change was one clue, but the real thing that made me think this is turreted weapons on the large hardpoint clipping completely through the ground because its landing gear clearance is too low.

Have to check, but I don't think the FDL or other ships with underside hardpoint have this issue...?

Anyway, it's still good they did it because if anything, it shows a modular ship design could be very beneficial to the game in creating purposed derivatives. I mean, these days car manufacturers reduce costs by creating a chassis that can be adapted to a variety of models...

It's hard to say. Art assets can take a while, but the model isn't so drastically different that they couldn't have done it in the short timeframe in which they did. Some of the bugs with the model speak in favor of a hasty decision, imo. Honestly, I think Mike Evans's responses to the criticisms of the Explorer earlier in this thread speak volumes as to FD's standpoint on ship design and balancing. That, or perhaps he was simply frustrated at the generally poor reception of the ship. I can't say I blame him, but going the route they did was just... confusing at best. That, and (non-seriously, obviously) threatening to nerf an aspect of the game just to spite the people who are raising legitimate (to them) concerns over a very critical aspect of the game (character design, basically) was just a bad idea.

I get it, no one likes being criticized, especially after putting in a lot of work into something. But it's not as if the suggestions we were offering--suggestions to help make the game better, I might add--were imbalanced. None of us were asking for Asp-level performance and versatility in a 500k ship. That wouldn't have made sense. What we were asking for was the same module parity that every other ship in the game already has. We wanted the ship to conform to the role it was described as having, a combat-explorer, rather than being told after the fact that it was never supposed to be half of what its description was.

It is what it is, and I don't see it changing at this point. It does throw any future ship designs they have into question though, at least for me. It will be a wait and see before getting excited over something, going forward.

I'm not going to quit playing the game over it.. hell, I just bought that new paint pack for my Cobra. As I said, I just find it wholly disappointing that we really weren't listened to, and I feel a little bad that they went to the effort of changing it but only really made it worse.

 

[jabberwalkie]

I was wondering about that. I'm loving the Scout for RES, but not sure about spending money on the big sister for the same purpose. Anything else is pointless as the Cobra does it all better. Maybe the Vulture still is the better way to go.

The Vulture is the RES Queen. If RES hunts is what you do, the Vulture really is the best choice. It's extremely maneuverable, it has a huge shield pool to burn through, and it has two massive hard points that are, lets face it, gloriously fun to use. The DBS is faster in boost IIRC than the Vulture (it's been a while since I flew one). The DBS seems to be decent a combat ship. I don't do CZ's and do my best to avoid having to do PVP stuff, so I can't really comment on what I think it would be able to do there. The DBE can defend itself during an interdiction pretty easily, thanks mostly to that large hard point. But, if you are looking for pure boost speed the Cobra will probably be what people stick with until they decide they want to jump further on a single instance. At that point the DBE is slightly more attractive, despite the peoples' gripe with it's fuel scoop size.

Both DB ships have an amazing capacity for dealing with heat dissipation. I've jumped both ships while just coming out from fuel scooping, and the DBS while scooping. I decided to kit my DBS with military grade hull, and it jumps in 21 or 22ly in the combat config I have it in. Both ships require the pilot to monitor power distribution pretty much all the time, which I don't have an issue with.

I see the DBS being the next natural progression for people from the Viper, and bypassing the Cobra entirely for PVE combat/RES hunts. The DBE will be the next option for explorers who want a larger single jump range, but can't afford an Asp or don't want to funnel the money that the ship requires into it.

 

[himurastewie]

The Vulture is the RES Queen. If RES hunts is what you do, the Vulture really is the best choice. It's extremely maneuverable, it has a huge shield pool to burn through, and it has two massive hard points that are, lets face it, gloriously fun to use. The DBS is faster in boost IIRC than the Vulture (it's been a while since I flew one). The DBS seems to be decent a combat ship. I don't do CZ's and do my best to avoid having to do PVP stuff, so I can't really comment on what I think it would be able to do there. The DBE can defend itself during an interdiction pretty easily, thanks mostly to that large hard point. But, if you are looking for pure boost speed the Cobra will probably be what people stick with until they decide they want to jump further on a single instance. At that point the DBE is slightly more attractive, despite the peoples' gripe with it's fuel scoop size.

Both DB ships have an amazing capacity for dealing with heat dissipation. I've jumped both ships while just coming out from fuel scooping, and the DBS while scooping. I decided to kit my DBS with military grade hull, and it jumps in 21 or 22ly in the combat config I have it in. Both ships require the pilot to monitor power distribution pretty much all the time, which I don't have an issue with.

I see the DBS being the next natural progression for people from the Viper, and bypassing the Cobra entirely for PVE combat/RES hunts. The DBE will be the next option for explorers who want a larger single jump range, but can't afford an Asp or don't want to funnel the money that the ship requires into it.

I like the DBS over the Vulture, just because it has speed to go along with the agility. That and being a one-trick pony gets a little boring to me. Obviously the DBS won't burn through enemies nearly as fast as the Vulture, but that's not its purpose. If they had given the DBS that one C4, 2 C1s, upped the jump range just a hair (~30ly stripped), and priced it about where the DBE is now, it would've been about as perfect as it could be without being overpowered. It wouldn't be stepping on the Cobra's toes in any arena beyond combat and pure jump range, and that could easily be justified by the price. It also wouldn't be stepping on the Asp's toes, because combat ability would be overall less, it would have next to no trade capacity, and the jump range is still lower.

Sigh..

 

[B33 ENN]

I get it, no one likes being criticized, especially after putting in a lot of work into something. But it's not as if the suggestions we were offering--suggestions to help make the game better, I might add--were imbalanced. None of us were asking for Asp-level performance and versatility in a 500k ship. That wouldn't have made sense. What we were asking for was the same module parity that every other ship in the game already has. We wanted the ship to conform to the role it was described as having, a combat-explorer, rather than being told after the fact that it was never supposed to be half of what its description was.

Well, indeed, but there are a lot of very informed and reasoned arguments being offered from dedicated players, rather than casual rants that might be easily dismissed. So I think it benefits everyone in the long run for such freely offered thoughtful feedback to be used to make improvements.

The Vulture is the RES Queen. If RES hunts is what you do, the Vulture really is the best choice. It's extremely maneuverable, it has a huge shield pool to burn through, and it has two massive hard points that are, lets face it, gloriously fun to use.

All true, but I've just never got on with that ship. In some ways it makes life too easy with the maneouverabiliyt; in others it isn't flexible enough due to its limit of two harpoints and gimped powerplant. Flying the littler ships feels more challenging, but I might be tempted to give the Vulture another go sometime as I'm much more experienced now than I was the first couple of times I tried it.

 

[jabberwalkie]

I like the DBS over the Vulture, just because it has speed to go along with the agility. That and being a one-trick pony gets a little boring to me. Obviously the DBS won't burn through enemies nearly as fast as the Vulture, but that's not its purpose. If they had given the DBS that one C4, 2 C1s, upped the jump range just a hair (~30ly stripped), and priced it about where the DBE is now, it would've been about as perfect as it could be without being overpowered. It wouldn't be stepping on the Cobra's toes in any arena beyond combat and pure jump range, and that could easily be justified by the price. It also wouldn't be stepping on the Asp's toes, because combat ability would be overall less, it would have next to no trade capacity, and the jump range is still lower.

Sigh..

That's part of why I sold the Vulture. Also I like the jump range in combat kit, and I got tired of being outrun by things in RES and FSD'ing away.... So I went from my moderately equipped Vulture, back to a fully kitted out Cobra at the time. Then I dumped the Cobra because the DBS's hard points are better and it's more maneuverable, and just is more enjoyable to fly for me.

All true, but I've just never got on with that ship. In some ways it makes life too easy with the maneouverabiliyt; in others it isn't flexible enough due to its limit of two harpoints and gimped powerplant. Flying the littler ships feels more challenging, but I might be tempted to give the Vulture another go sometime as I'm much more experienced now than I was the first couple of times I tried it.

My main problem with the Vulture was travel. It was a complete pain in the ass to travel between multiple systems with its jump range. The DBS has the range just not quite the punch, but does what I want. If I went to an RES and thought about taking on prey significantly bigger than myself in the DBS, I would probably go in a wing.

 

[B33 ENN]

You know, I just looked at the in-game description of the Explorer, and it reads a bit like an admission to me:

"The Diamondback Explorer was Lakon Spaceways' response to criticism of the original Diamondback ship class. By extending the ship's frame it allowed greater cargo capacity and so greater mission variety and endurance. It also brought the ship more into line as a smaller brother to the successful Asp line although at much more modest price range. The Explorer model can fulfil the same roles as its companion ship type, but also able to operate as a fast transport and resupply vessel useful for supporting deep space operations in a hostile environment."​

Now I'm even more convinced.

 

[Ziljan]

You know, I just looked at the in-game description of the Explorer, and it reads a bit like an admission to me:

"The Diamondback Explorer was Lakon Spaceways' response to criticism of the original Diamondback ship class. By extending the ship's frame it allowed greater cargo capacity and so greater mission variety and endurance. It also brought the ship more into line as a smaller brother to the successful Asp line although at much more modest price range. The Explorer model can fulfil the same roles as its companion ship type, but also able to operate as a fast transport and resupply vessel useful for supporting deep space operations in a hostile environment."​

Now I'm even more convinced.

"...deep space operations in a hostile environment." What that could possibly mean....??

 

[puca]

That, and (non-seriously, obviously) threatening to nerf an aspect of the game just to spite the people who are raising legitimate (to them) concerns over a very critical aspect of the game (character design, basically) was just a bad idea.

Yeah, that was the reaction of a kid, basically. I liked the way Greg Street used to handle community relations, back when he was one of the WoW designers. He was almost universally respected.

 

[himurastewie]

Yeah, that was the reaction of a kid, basically. I liked the way Greg Street used to handle community relations, back when he was one of the WoW designers. He was almost universally respected.

I had to look him up. I do remember seeing Ghostcrawler on the WoW forums pretty often way back when. Didn't realize he was one of the devs.

Frontier are mostly doing a really good job, it's just little things like this that can cumulatively become bigger issues and eventually will weaken the community as a whole if not kept in check.

That we've had at probably close to 1000 responses across multiple threads about this ship really says something about the energy the community is willing to invest in even relatively minor aspects of the game. I can only imagine the turdstorm that will be kicked up if they make poor decisions about the Federal Corvette...

 

[Mephane]

"...deep space operations in a hostile environment." What that could possibly mean....??

You are thinking Thargoids where FD most certainly meant powerplay.

 

[thahat]

-snip-l

It makes an EXCELENT illigal goods runner ship though, speed and agility is more then fine if you abuse boost+FA/off stuff.
best of all: it is really cool, as in temperature. helps in not gettin scanned and stuff.

 

[puca]

Doesn't chaff spam completely trivialize scans?