Proposal Discussion Kill Warrant Scanner Feedback

[nrage]

* A successful KWS scan reveals all bounties for factions aligned with the superpower controlling the current jurisdiction:

Is there a reason (technical perhaps) that this cannot be:
* A successful KWS scan reveals all bounties for all local factions and factions aligned with the superpower controlling the current jurisdiction

As I think this solves the various BGS issues and it also "makes sense" from a lore perspective.

Edit: Ok, I have been too long away from the cockpit and forgot that our basic scanners already detect local bounties - I presume this isn't changing, and is why it's conspicuously absent from your proposals

I think it's better than having the following..

* Independents, for the purposes of the KWS become a superpower (as in they've all signed a treaty for KWS usage).
** All independent bounties are detected when in a jurisdiction controlled by an independent faction.

which I would drop from your suggestion - keeping the change suggested above and all other items.

Edit: Your suggestion (surprise, surprise) actually does a better job at the main issue of not getting nearby independent bounties. The only issue is that it only works in independently controlled systems.

I think, however, we should live with the loss of nearby independent bounties. Instead, people have to go to that system to get it as a local bounty. And.. we add a new persistent location, like a RES site, to all systems (like the nav beacon) where a high ratio of wanted ships can be found - as this resolves the problem with not being able to collect those sorts of bounties, easily, in systems without RES sites.

 

[Sylow]

(I also think rep loss for attacking a faction's ships should be a lot stronger and quicker than it is, it's too hard to make proper enemies. But that's a topic for another day... )

.
I feel the same. But on the positive, the newer suggestion might even change that. Criminal factions most often (but not always) are independent. So if you hunt in a system where the controlling faction is independent, you might cash in bounties issued by the criminal factions and rep decays at the current speed.
.
Now take a look at the situation when the sontrolling faction is connected to any superpower. The bounty hunter still takes down ships of the criminal faction, but never receives (and thus never cashs in) bounties issued by the criminal faction. This eliminates the mitigation-effect we have in the current system.
.
So as long as your reputation can still drop when shooting down ships from a criminal faction, and Sandro just stated that this is an option, your reputation with a criminal faction can only go one way when hunting for bounties: down. So you should reach "attack on sight" quicker than in the current system.
.

 

[Powderpanic]

This is one module you need to design purely around PVE.

PVP Bounty hunting is dead and unless you change things dramatically its not going to come back

Bounties are capped at 2mil. To small to be worth the effort.
Killing a player of average skill and up who does not want to be killed, is impossible due to the OP nature of High Wake ignoring masslock.

So if your concern is even partly about balancing the KWS for PVP, honestly dont bother.

 

[Jack Schitt]

I would totally risk paying a fine to rip an Elite FdL named "Hate" out of supercruise to give him a scan. I've noticed from the hazres that you can usually tell by ship name if they're pirates or not.

True, but it's a bit meta. Less about the pirates being ballsy in their ship naming conventions, more about the limited pick of names available in the game's pool.

An alternative might be to have fines for interdictions revoked, if the interdiction led to a bounty claim from a jurisdiction aligned with the same superpower as the one in which the interdiction took place. Possibly a bit complicated though.

But you're right: living with fines for interdictions might become a way of life for the seasoned bounty hunter. And for those who wanted to stay squeaky clean, there's always the nav beacon...

Either way I do like the idea of putting the Kill Warrant back into the Kill Warrant Scanner.

 

[rootsrat]

There is an alternative. Leave the KWS as it is, and let murderers carry the risk of being stung as part of the consequences of crime.

If you cant do the time....

Fully support this!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Fully support this!

If crime, smuggling etc paid better (as in shifting decimal points several places better) a lot of people might accept this way of life.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Is there a reason (technical perhaps) that this cannot be:
* A successful KWS scan reveals all bounties for all local factions and factions aligned with the superpower controlling the current jurisdiction

As I think this solves the various BGS issues and it also "makes sense" from a lore perspective.

I think goal of redesign is NOT to give all bounties for all local factions. It is quite clear telegraphed in proposals. Also there are no BGS issues or making sense from lore...it is just how players are used to play game. Which is now changing.

 

[Shanaeri]

Hello Commander Daniel Cloudsifter!

So, if I'm following this, what would you say if part of the KWS functionality was to stop reputation loss for any ship that is wanted?

The way I personally see the KWS as working is if you like detecting a Ship's ID, then accessing the crime database of every local police force and if the crime is serious enough Interpol as well.

I realise there may well be performance/other limitations to this, but limiting to the above to say a 20LY radius (basically, the range at which a faction can expand into a system) plus superpowers would seem to fit. I guess if you wanted to, you could make the module class affect the radius also. So that then gives an outfitting aspect to things.

I'm probably grumpy, but the proposed 3.0 implementation puts me right off of doing any bounty hunting, which is a shame as it's part of the game I enjoyed.

Basically, I think what's needed is the functionality of the current KWS made into a 3.0+ version. As has been said before, make the KWS:

1. Simple to use and understand
2. More relevant to PvE, and don't balance around edge case PvP
3. Add depth and functionality, but not complexity.

Being completely blunt. Please do not implement the KWS as it was in 3.0 beta. It will break so much (as evidenced in some detail in this and other threads) of PvE the negative impacts will be very substantial. It will affect everything from bounty hunting CG's, how to gain rep, how to offset the over time reputation decay, how to remove a system from lockdown etc etc etc. For the sake of a few edge cases it's just not worth it.

While it's great and appreciated to talk about improvements breaking something with no certainty or approximate timeline to it being improved doesn't personally sit right me with

 

[Rubbernuke]

Another idea: currently the KWS scans at a set rate, and when it completes the scan you have all the bounties listed. Could you change it so that a partial scan only shows local bounties, and that only a complete scan shows every bounty against the perp? This would simulate having to trawl databases further away.

Could you also have the grades of KWS mean something beyond scan times? Example: an E grade KWS can only access local bounty claims, while A grade can access bubble wide?

 

[raymondo the great]

Hello Commanders!
{rest of new proposal cut for formatting reasons}
* No bounties can be detected in anarchies, making them safe havens for criminals.

Right now you can bounty hunt in an anarchy (and other areas) with a KWS because killing people wanted outside the jurisdiction of the people who want them is the sort of thing bounty hunters would do....

while better than any proposals to date it still misses out that aspect, and factions not aligned to the superpower, and is still more complex than the current system in live....

All in all I'd give it a C- as opposed to the previous e rated suggestion and the f that was the beta system...

 

[Starender]

Hello Commander Daniel Cloudsifter!



1. Yes, it is quite harsh that only the controlling faction's superpower factions show bounties. It's also very clean and has logic to it. In fairness, it's actually jurisdictional, so within specific locations, such as around starports, the KWS might be affecting different superpowers.
2. This just means that the Kill Warrant Scanner would improve your efforts working for the superpower whose faction controlled the jurisdiction.
3. Agreed, though this is very much a subjective point of view.
4. This is an interesting question. It's only bounty hunters (as far as NPCs are concerned) that would trigger this response, so the jury is out for me as to whether this would be a negative or a positive.
5. I think you're misunderstanding - if you are gaining reputation, you are gaining superpower reputation as well - nothing should change here (unless I am misunderstanding, lol).

Hello Commander Starender

I think we would have th ability to look at bounties and their values to help mitigate loss of earnings.

Hello Commander Sylow!

Of course, there is a possibility we would need to have a clause that allowed criminal factions to cause rep loss when you blew them up, KWS or not.

Thank you Sandro that's reassuring.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

so,
there are several things i don't understand:

why would it be to harsh to leave it as it is?
the point of C&P is to have those bounties. if someone is not able to pay the bounties on his ship back, then he has to say goodbye to it...
after all there should be a easy to read display telling him all the time how much a loss will cost him.

second,
why is there no live stream, nor a transcript of the last one

third:
the current way how reputation gain works is also wonky as it is.
example:
a "mafia", aka criminal minor faction is the ruling party - that must not mean that its an anarchy system - but:
you can gain positiv reputation by handing in bounties from shot down criminals.
sounds wrong in many ways...

fourth:
why is this not in the focused feedback subcategory?
are even the DEVs now confused with the 50 subforums?

 

[abumonkey]

Keep it simple as possible.
When Target is a NPC use the Old system, when Target is a Player use the New system.

Of course you could use the current system in Solo, and the New system in Open, Done!

PS: Also put it on a Turret or Make it Passive.

This! Is this not the simplest approach?

 

[Eldragon]

Make KWS work in all jurisdictions, including anarchy space.

If target is an NPC: player collects all bounties, even if outside interstellar factor jurisdiction.

If target is PC: Player collects highest bounty inside current jurisdiction.

Why make it more complex than this?

 

[Eidolon]

You know it's gone sideways, when people are asking for flow charts in case they have to explain this and other C&P changes to new players.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Make KWS work in all jurisdictions, including anarchy space.

If target is an NPC: player collects all bounties, even if outside interstellar factor jurisdiction.

If target is PC: Player collects highest bounty inside current jurisdiction.

Why make it more complex than this?

Having thought about this all afternoon I'm inclined to agree with this. It's way less complex than any of the proposed alternatives.
Even if Players and NPCs are treated differently, it wouldn't really be overly apparent to the scanning player anyway.

 

[SciTrekker]

You know it's gone sideways, when people are asking for flow charts in case they have to explain this and other C&P changes to new players.

I've been wondering what the description for the KWS in Outfitting will say and how confused players will be after reading it. :S

 

[raymondo the great]

Having thought about this all afternoon I'm inclined to agree with this. It's way less complex than any of the proposed alternatives.
Even if Players and NPCs are treated differently, it wouldn't really be overly apparent to the scanning player anyway.

Players and NPCs are already treated differently with the introduction of pilots federation bounties. So logically there is no reason for the devs to insist they be treated the same way when it comes to collecting them...

I've been wondering what the description for the KWS in Outfitting will say and how confused players will be after reading it. :S

"The KWS will reveal bounties for....well look just use it and find out yeah? You'll get a little bit more cash and it'll cost you loads of power you can better use on another Shield booster but please use this module anyway"

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

There is an alternative. Leave the KWS as it is, and let murderers carry the risk of being stung as part of the consequences of crime.

If you cant do the time....

I'd love that, but FD will never do that.

 

[Eldragon]

Having thought about this all afternoon I'm inclined to agree with this. It's way less complex than any of the proposed alternatives.
Even if Players and NPCs are treated differently, it wouldn't really be overly apparent to the scanning player anyway.

[emphasis mine] Exactly the idea. Solutions to game problems need to be User Experience focused, not Background Simulation focused.