Let us send other player credits.

[Mohrgan]

the real question is how much time will it take for someone to grind enough credits worth selling, then flying around the population bubble looking for ppl to manually target and speak to, honestly, credit selling in this game with a transfer feature wouldn't make it much easier you can still spend days flying around without finding anyone. and what you think they have the will power to go around manually convo'ing every pilot they meet, knowing that most of them will probably report them.

i honestly find the ideas of gold selling in elite, ridiculous there is no niche for it, grinding is the entire game why would anyone that is currently enjoying the game pay more money to skip the very thing they are enjoying. there is no second avenue of time consumption like theme park mmos, you have your grinding and your end game, grinding funds the end game progression. but, elites end game is grinding so.. this is where the gold seller tidal wave prediction falls flat.

How much easier would it be to do all of that grinding in the ship of your choice fitted out like you'd dream of? Then you'll ask, why bother to do that when that is the whole game right now. Well for one, you see it all of the time, shortcuts are an internet favorite. People are already irked that you can grind up to the big ships in Solo, and then jump in Open and PvP like a boss in the biggest ship you can get. Add people that just buy a ship to that mix and see what happens.
.
Professional Gold Seller are grinding machines. You must be aware of that. Hundreds of bots grinding out in Solo, where no one would be able to spot them, drop into Open fill up the Mules account, and back into solo.
Take the long view. Look down the road.
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Comms are coming. Right? Once there are General Comms, you're just one step away from Spam. And, the ability to openly trade credits would be all it takes to get this game a Pay-to-Win label. (it's a silly comment, but it will/would happen).

 

[Heathy]

the lack of the ability to trade or interact in meaningful ways is why this game will always be various steps behind the competition, i'm tired of hearing this game is a sandbox when its just an open ended arcade game. ppl whining about things that wouldn't even affect them, so what if some guy buys an anaconda from a 3rd party how does that affect you, it doesn't that is exactly the point.

and good for the guy who bought the anaconda now hes shorted his games life span by several months. and it cost him money aswell well done to that guy for basically ruining his own game, honestly let ppl throw money at skipping time sinks, there is no knock on effect so it matters not.

the only way the game becomes pay to win is when you have to pay real money to get an advantage and paying is the only way, if you can get that advantage in another way then it just means you CAN p2w, but its not THE only way. ill use world of tanks as an example, before you could only buy gold rounds for real money, now a days you can use the silver you get from playing games. previously(like years ago) it was a bit pay to win, now though, not so much. you get benefits for paying, but you don't have to pay to win. then we have to determine what winning actually is, is it a PVP only thing?, is it a combat only thing?
is there any difference between me losing against an anaconda someone bought from a 3rd party or was given by a friend over someone who grinded for 5 months to buy one. no in the end i still lost to an anaconda how that anaconda came into existence doesn't factor into the winning or losing scenario.

 

[Mohrgan]

I see no one still wants to acknowledge the fact that Elite is not like any other mmo anyway. Even if gold sellers got into the game it simply doesn't matter. There is no difference in my mind between someone who grinds for hours in Solo with absolutely zero risk and takes all their credits to open then someone who just straight buys their gold.

We have a game where you can become rich in solo quite easily and then put that money into the open world.

As long as credits are shared between solo and open there is no sound reasoning against gold sellers as the economy isn't fair and balanced anyway.

<snip>

Whew, that was way more then I wanted to type. As I said I understand completely if you disagree and by no means do I think I'm 100% right. This is all simply my opinion and I thank anyone who was willing to read this with an open mind, even if they still think I'm full of crap. Thanks!

That's all a bias you have. FD sees it differently. They don;t distinguish between Open, Solo, or Group. They must figure if you spend the time playing, it's all good. But, you kind of help make one of my points. People already see the Solo option as a kind of cheat (even when all of the previous Elites we single player). What kind of uproar would there be when people could buy there way to PvP nirvana? Any credits earned in Solo were at least gotten by playing the game. Buying Credits with cash, from someone other that FD for that matter, will drive the natives crazy

 

[HavocCommando]

I don't care what anyone says without the ability to transfer credits between commanders there is 0 reason for any multiplayer components of the game beyond the "random ship tries to kill you" interaction,
are their downsides? yes, but if we let the imagined "threat" of credit sellers ruin the ability to have even basic multiplayer functionality then they should just scrap the idea of this even being a multiplayer game and just make it all solo.

 

[Mohrgan]

the lack of the ability to trade or interact in meaningful ways is why this game will always be various steps behind the competition, i'm tired of hearing this game is a sandbox when its just an open ended arcade game. ppl whining about things that wouldn't even affect them, so what if some guy buys an anaconda from a 3rd party how does that affect you, it doesn't that is exactly the point.

and good for the guy who bought the anaconda now hes shorted his games life span by several months. and it cost him money aswell well done to that guy for basically ruining his own game, honestly let ppl throw money at skipping time sinks, there is no knock on effect so it matters not.

I can't believe you are so flippant about that. You would be ok with a guy spending cash to come and crush you in Open? If you would tolerate that, you would still have to admit that the rank and file would blow a gasket. The long view. If you were FD what would you think about the future of your product if it could be abused like that? Not to mention FD's opinion of third parties making money off of their IP. The long view. Think like FD.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I don't care what anyone says without the ability to transfer credits between commanders there is 0 reason for any multiplayer components of the game beyond the "random ship tries to kill you" interaction,
are their downsides? yes, but if we let the imagined "threat" of credit sellers ruin the ability to have even basic multiplayer functionality then they should just scrap the idea of this even being a multiplayer game and just make it all solo.

Again, don;t read the posts, don;t digest the material, just jump in there and say the same thing that's been said over and over again.
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Player to Player transactions are inevitable. I am just calling for a self policing system, that avoids the pitfalls other games have already fallen into. A game, a system with a single currency, has to protect that currency. How can you argue with that?

 

[Heathy]

it can already be abused like ppl have said you can trade in solo, practically risk free, earn as much as you like they hop into open with your 5 pimped anacondas and go wild. they gained those millions without having to interact with another person, then when they have the capital to lose a bit in pvp, can just go 'oh now i want to see some ppl!'

don't get me wrong i don't care about the modes of play, i just think the 'but you can abuse it!' yeah you can abuse the modes of play too i don't see that changing again.

fact is, they want this game to be multiplayer, they want ppl to interact with each other, a level of that interaction is the ability to share/transfer funds back and forth between pilots for cargo, modules or new ships and in the future something bigger maybe. for now i mean damn, i can remember playing multiplayer games over 15 even 20 years ago that let 2 players trade funds between each other.

 

[Darian]

It's a troubling issue for a game with a single currency. There are any number of issues that would need to be worked out to protect the game from Sellers, and abuse. I'm afraid there may have to be a few knots. FD will sort it out, and I'll live with the system they develop. But I'm sure someone there is drawing flow charts to settle this matter. Sorting out a closed system to protect the currency should be the goal.

There are many ways and most of them are not overly complicated or taking ressources.
As soon you revoke accounts of sellers it becomes costly too, so you do not even have to be overly much so looking for them.

they have to advertise so players find them, so they are easy to find.
Tracking back who farms for sellers is quite easy if you have all transaktion data happen on your server.
clean house at random once per month and selling becomes economical not an very good idea.

Most Mmo's did not kick out sellers quick and hard enough though, that was the fault,finding them is quite easy, they have to advertise to sell.

 

[Mohrgan]

it can already be abused like ppl have said you can trade in solo, practically risk free, earn as much as you like they hop into open with your 5 pimped anacondas and go wild. they gained those millions without having to interact with another person, then when they have the capital to lose a bit in pvp, can just go 'oh now i want to see some ppl!'

don't get me wrong i don't care about the modes of play, i just think the 'but you can abuse it!' yeah you can abuse the modes of play too i don't see that changing again.

There. once again my point is bolstered. People think trading in solo is a cheat, what would the outcry be if you could call 1-800-Get-Credits and have a fully kitted Python/Anaconda/Ect.? With one single currency that's exactly what would happen. Most of the MMO's out there have to have a bevy of different currencies to patch over the flaw of open trade of the base currency. PvP credits, Raid Credits, World Credits, you mane it. I've been gaming for years. Open that door, the wrong way, and blam, everything gets out of hand.

 

[Briarée]

Agreed! A lot has been said on this subject already, but I feel its something that needs to happen.

yeah, thats the issue, because while i think sending CR to another player would bring a very wide range of player driven content (merc contract, excorting services etc..) it would also bring the gold farming crowd.

so tbh, i don't really know where to stand here

 

[daan2002]

There. once again my point is bolstered. People think trading in solo is a cheat, what would the outcry be if you could call 1-800-Get-Credits and have a fully kitted Python/Anaconda/Ect.? With one single currency that's exactly what would happen. Most of the MMO's out there have to have a bevy of different currencies to patch over the flaw of open trade of the base currency. PvP credits, Raid Credits, World Credits, you mane it. I've been gaming for years. Open that door, the wrong way, and blam, everything gets out of hand.

also this not being a sub game the gold seller make more money off the game than FD imo and if a zone chat ever comes it would be spamed with 1mill for 7.99 and them forums would be spmaed with do something about the gold sellers and not seen a game yet be able to stop them

 

[Mohrgan]

There are many ways and most of them are not overly complicated or taking ressources.
As soon you revoke accounts of sellers it becomes costly too, so you do not even have to be overly much so looking for them.

they have to advertise so players find them, so they are easy to find.
Tracking back who farms for sellers is quite easy if you have all transaktion data happen on your server.
clean house at random once per month and selling becomes economical not an very good idea.

Most Mmo's did not kick out sellers quick and hard enough though, that was the fault,finding them is quite easy, they have to advertise to sell.

There are issues, real life money issues that have to be faced. I know the EULA says this and says that, but do you know why those other games just didn;t ban hard enough? Because they can't. They still, functionally, have to prove that you cheated to ban/revoke an account. Look what happened with FD and the instant Billionaires a few weeks ago. It's just not that cut and dry for a business in the real world. Take the long view. What does FD see down there?
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Advertising? Are you kidding me? Do you suppose Chat Spamming is what makes them money? Haven't you seen those advertisements for gold sellers as you cruise the net looking that perfect build, or to up-date your Teamspeak? They don;t need an open Comm system to get customers. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Heathy]

even if you did manage to actual find a gold seller, i come back to the fact that there is currently no niche for it, once you get your ship what are you gunna do, keep grinding the very same credits you just bought for what? you already have the ship.

if there was a secondary end game aspect to this game that required a certain amount of time dedicated to progressing through it like any theme park mmo end game where my last example, ppl with lives and jobs and families can't grind all day to fund their raiding, that makes sense gold sellers pop out because they are filling a demand, that demand isn't going to exist on enough of a scale here, you might get a few that are will to dump money on in game creds to buy an anaconda, but there isn't enough time consuming content that requires you to play for lots of time. that is the main reason why gold sellers exist, they are filling a niche built around the idea of grinding to get something at the end of it. except it isn't the gold that they want its what they can do with the gold in that particular setting. theme park mmos having various money sinks, through crafting and consumables etc etc. none of that exists here, its just grind for money buy ship grind more money buy bigger ship, grind money and hope one day they add a big enough gold sink to make it seem like it was all worth it.

by far the best way of doing it would be to sell whole accounts with kitted out ships, so long as you get the cost of the game back and the time investment, noone can stop this from happening, FD could monitor email address changes or IP connections on certain accounts but lets face it, in the end it all becomes he said she said.

you have to ask your self, how many games have been destroyed because of gold selling? NONE? then there is the answer to the problem, its a problem yes, it creates an unfair advantage even if that is pretty small scale atm, but considering this plague has been around probably since the inception of mmos, and none of them have collapsed due to gold selling. why is this a problem again?

 

[daan2002]

lol a few that funny lmao if only a few did it they not be a business off of it even eveonline and has them and that game work almost same way is this one hek even star trek grind online has them

 

[Darian]

There are issues, real life money issues that have to be faced. I know the EULA says this and says that, but do you know why those other games just didn;t ban hard enough? Because they can't. They still, functionally, have to prove that you cheated to ban/revoke an account. Look what happened with FD and the instant Billionaires a few weeks ago. It's just not that cut and dry for a business in the real world. Take the long view. What does FD see down there?
.
Advertising? Are you kidding me? Do you suppose Chat Spamming is what makes them money? Haven't you seen those advertisements for gold sellers as you cruise the net looking that perfect build, or to up-date your Teamspeak? They don;t need an open Comm system to get customers. Where there's a will, there's a way.

So lets say you want to buy credits for elite.
How do you do it?
You google for it "Buy Elite credits" or whatever
You look in a few gamer forums.

So if frontier does that and invests 10$ or what ever they have an seller redhanded and ban his 50$ account.

AND if you keep even slight track of transactions in game you have all the farmers of the seller too.

That is all hard data, transactions in and out game.

That should even stand in an court.

Or you are snarky and stuff all sellers and farmers into there own group they can not escape from, they are not "banned" but can not interact with any other player.

Now picture them going to court " Frontier has us all in one group whine whine whine" and the judge going " huh? Game? Group? Can still play though, what is the problem?"

Yeah that will go down soooo well for the farmers.

 

[daan2002]

are you going to be the one who looks at all the data to find said gold seller and buyer ??? if it was so easy to find them no game would have them

 

[Darian]

are you going to be the one who looks at all the data to find said gold seller and buyer ??? if it was so easy to find them no game would have them

Collecting data from in game transactions is an automatic process, no human involved.
Filtering out accounts who do more than average transactions (moving huge amounts in and out) automatic process
Looking at the top ten not much work

Other end.

Sellers NEED to advertise, on the net or ingame.

compare your two lists.\

If you need evidence invest ten bucks to catch an trader.

Not to hard for frontier to create fake accounts and go fishing in there own game.

 

[daan2002]

Collecting data from in game transactions is an automatic process, no human involved.
Filtering out accounts who do more than average transactions (moving huge amounts in and out) automatic process
Looking at the top ten not much work

Other end.

Sellers NEED to advertise, on the net or ingame.

compare your two lists.\

If you need evidence invest ten bucks to catch an trader.

Not to hard for frontier to create fake accounts and go fishing in there own game.

then tell me why my wow and eve accounts have not been ban? also use a mining bot on eve also one doing the advertising are not the accounts that sell it

 

[The.Doover]

then tell me why my wow and eve accounts have not been ban? also one doing the advertising are not the accounts that sell it

I actually think the no trading was a simple, yet effective master stroke to keep a virtual economy virtual.

That said, plenty of ways to 'give' other players stuff anyhow, just takes a little more work with scoops etc.

 

[Daffan]

then tell me why my wow and eve accounts have not been ban? also use a mining bot on eve also one doing the advertising are not the accounts that sell it

WHY does it even matter?

Elite money DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. Why stop people transfering?

There is no economy in this game like EVE

there is no meaning of money in this game like EVE

etc etc

 

[daan2002]

There is no economy in this game like EVE

there is no meaning of money in this game like EVE

etc etc

lmao hope your joking but something tells me your not