Let us send other player credits.

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

Seriously though, what is so wrong with a trader hiring an escort and not have to fiddle around dumping cargo to pay for it?

There is currently no real need to hire escort in this game. No one knows if FD will increase difficulty in the future, but right now everything is easy mode.

However an escort hiring system could be established without having to integrate direct credit transfers. It could be a "Hire escort contract" that specifies the actual system to travel to. The escort then have to be within some max distance of the hiring ship until destination was reached (or else contract becomes void, there could be a countdown time to warn of to far distance). The system could also set maximum prices on escort hiring costs, based on some factors like for example: distance, hiring players ship vs. hired players ship, hired players combat rating(higher rating = higher possible escort cost), how long the two players has played the game, the systems general security status in the area and possible other factors. Taxing the escort purchase could be another feature, for example a 15% tax or something. This would effectively give you that escort hiring feature and still prevent gold sellers from using the system to sell credits.

 

[deMangler]

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I do see the OP changed their mind.
FWIW, given the open nature of this game and the hugeness of the galaxy, the fact that there will never be cash-for-credits or pay to win, and the grouping mechanism, I do not see any danger from allowing players to transfer credits to each other. Especially when the bounty and fines system becomes more balanced and actually distinctivises asset destruction of other players.
I see only a huge potential for much richer and more various gameplay from allowing such transfers. The upsides far outweigh the mostly imaginary (because they are based on experience from games only superficially similar to ED) downsides.

 

[Darian]

I see no big problem to keep big sellers out

Run an statistics program that shows your the 5% player group with the highest transaction rate and have an closer look at them, that means everyone who wants to farm needs to run if over many different accounts.
\
This has the nice side effect to generate Frontier more income = more sold copies so gold sellers stay under the radar (and still the 5% top would be banned.)

Elite is not competitive, so having more moneyz does not affect others, only the one buying it, game becomes less rewarding.

With the pirate thing i do not see really if it makes it better worse one way or the other, i see there as much bad as good.

And well, Frontier sees how much on your account is (credits) if that suddenly increases massive they know what to look for.

I do not know if we really NEED to be able to transfer credits but i do not really see it as somethign that would damage Elite.

 

[Mohrgan]

Contracts, not convenience. Because there is only one currency in the game you have to protect it. Maybe giving your Brother/Sister/Friend credits shouldn't be easy. Just because you want something doesn't mean you should get it. Elite is staking out a position of "not like all of the other games out there". Keeping the cheats out should mean a lot. Satisfying your immediate needs/desires at the risk of breaking the long view is wrong.
.
Asking the Dev's to create complicated and unnecessary systems would clog up the development pipe line. I know you're all likely to say "It can't be that hard" but just what do we know about it? Not enough to make a claim like that.
.
If they do anything, they should, down the road a ways, create player activated, but game verified contracts. Do this for me, and you'll get this. As long as the game can verify you did 'this'. It could work like a database of contracts, you chose the one closest to your need, enter the specifics and let it ride. Anything else offers any of the Ships/Gear to someone with enough real life money. Just how many threads would you anticipate if that was allowed to happen?

 

[Alatar]

I'll just leave this here:

Player to Player Trading

• Players can trade directly with each other
  • The player trade interface is available when both players are docked at the same market
  • The player trade interface is available when two players dock ships
• The player trade interface is a secure swap allowing players to transfer credits/cargo
  • Both players must accept the trade before it occurs
    • Acceptance must be redone by both parties after any change in the trade
  • Trading occurs in real-time and can be interrupted (for example by being attacked) unless taking place at a space dock
  • Either player can cancel the trade at any time up to the point both agree

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6299

It's weird that some people seem to resist any changes or additions to the game even if they're actually designed additions.

 

[Risenzealot]

I vote yes to this.

Would it open up the ability for gold sellers? Yes it would, however there are a number of things to note here.

1. Frontier has made this a multiplayer game, period. Accept all the advantages AND disadvantages of that. To try and market a game as a MMO where you have ultimate freedom yet not allow payment is sort of crazy.
2. One of the worst things about gold sellers is the terrible spam they cause. Everyone can agree to that. Well Elite doesn't have much in the way of chat so no big deal there.
3. For the people who think players buying gold is unfair or unbalanced in a multiplayer game do you realize what we are all playing? It's not "fair or balanced" anyway as people can grind in solo mode all day long to make billions and then take that cash to open play and blow others up. If commanders account/credit balance were separated between solo and open I could see the problem. As it stands not so much.

 

[Mohrgan]

I'll just leave this here:



https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6299

It's weird that some people seem to resist any changes or additions to the game even if they're actually designed additions.

This does nothing to keep Credit Sellers from selling credits. This just means the Sellers have to meet the buyers in space station. '1 mil Credit for $7.99, just dock at <insert preferred station name> and open trade'. System failed. Try again.

 

[Alatar]

This does nothing to keep Credit Sellers from selling credits. This just means the Sellers have to meet the buyers in space station. '1 mil Credit for $7.99, just dock at <insert preferred station name> and open trade'. System failed. Try again.

Wat.

I didn't even say anything about gold sellers, nor did the DDF thread.

I'm just pointing out that player to player credit transfers are part of FD's plan/wishlist from what we know. Clearly the gold selling boogieman wasn't a big enough issue to stop the features from being planned.

 

[Mohrgan]

I vote yes to this.

Would it open up the ability for gold sellers? Yes it would, however there are a number of things to note here.

1. Frontier has made this a multiplayer game, period. Accept all the advantages AND disadvantages of that. To try and market a game as a MMO where you have ultimate freedom yet not allow payment is sort of crazy.
2. One of the worst things about gold sellers is the terrible spam they cause. Everyone can agree to that. Well Elite doesn't have much in the way of chat so no big deal there.
3. For the people who think players buying gold is unfair or unbalanced in a multiplayer game do you realize what we are all playing? It's not "fair or balanced" anyway as people can grind in solo mode all day long to make billions and then take that cash to open play and blow others up. If commanders account/credit balance were separated between solo and open I could see the problem. As it stands not so much.

Gold Seller spam is not the worst thing about Gold Seller, especially in a game were there is just one currency that gives you access to any of the Ships/Gear. I would rather FD just give us all every ship, and access to any of the modules up front before I would let the players, or worse yet professional selling outfits make all of the profits of it's development. We have to look beyond our momentary, immediate urges, and consider the long view.
.
How soon would you be on here railing about all of the brand new players flying around in Anacondas the ybought for cash, while poor you had to grind away for them? How many new players would actually come to a game that fouled with the dreaded 'pay to win' tag? Elite would drop like a stone.

 

[Googol]

I see the OP has decided that it's best to stick with the existing system for now. +1 rep to him for being prepared to consider the arguments.
-
That aside, I've found this entire thread interesting. I went into it thinking "No, I don't want that." but by the end I was reconsidering my position and I have come to the opposite conclusion to the OP!
-
My reasoning is that the community goals coming with 1.1 will require players to work together, but what if a player wants to join in but doesn't have the resources to make an effective contribution? That's the problem that has been facing ad hoc player events up to now - hence the OP - but if FD are coding such events into the game then more in-game support will be needed to facilitate those events. Being able to transfer goods or credits efficiently will allow any player to make an effective contribution to an event, rendering the game more inclusive regardless of a player's situation. Similarly, when player-player contracts come in, and they will, there must be a financial infrastructure to support them else how are traders going to pay their escorts for example?
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The suggestions to make such transfers in-station only, and to limit the amount that can be transferred per day (interstellar money laundering regulations?), would do a lot to ameliorate the risks of gold farming - and surely it can't be that hard for FD to monitor accounts for evidence of regular one-way traffic and close them down once they have that evidence, particularly if the community helps police the issue?
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My change of mind is based on aesthetic, as well as pragmatic, considerations. As more features are added to the game and the experience becomes richer there will come a point when the crudity of the current financial mechanics (or rather their non-existence) will stick out like a sore thumb. Limiting the scope of internal financial transactions during development and at launch was the right decision - starting out with a gold farming issue hanging over the game wouldn't have been helpful - but even in the last month the game has moved on and imo so should the debate, from "Whether?" to "How?".

 

[Mohrgan]

Wat.

I didn't even say anything about gold sellers, nor did the DDF thread.

I'm just pointing out that player to player credit transfers are part of FD's plan/wishlist from what we know. Clearly the gold selling boogieman wasn't a big enough issue to stop the features from being planned.

This entire thread has been laced with the threat of gold sellers. Why do you suppose it didn't release with a way to transfer credits like that? Because it wasn't sufficiently fleshed out to be game worthy, maybe? That there boogieman is certainly on their minds, or it would be happening already.

 

[Alatar]

This entire thread has been laced with the threat of gold sellers. Why do you suppose it didn't release with a way to transfer credits like that? Because it wasn't sufficiently fleshed out to be game worthy, maybe? That there boogieman is certainly on their minds, or it would be happening already.

Or maybe, just maybe it has more to do with the fact that only a minority of the DDF features have been implemented due to the rushed release.

And maybe also the fact that credit transfers are a multiplayer feature, which is one portion of the game that was left extremely lacking compared to the plans but is according to the devs a top priority at the moment.

But no, it has to be that FD is just afraid of gold sellers.

 

[Mohrgan]

Or maybe, just maybe it has more to do with the fact that only a minority of the DDF features have been implemented due to the rushed release.

And maybe also the fact that credit transfers are a multiplayer feature, which is one portion of the game that was left extremely lacking compared to the plans but is according to the devs a top priority at the moment.

But no, it has to be that FD is just afraid of gold sellers.

And, the reason for all of this is? It wasn't ready to be released. We'll see what they actually do. The DDF is, as you said, a 'wishlist'. Many wishes don;t come true.

 

[Vandyl]

Not only NO, but HELL NO!

 

[Darian]

Could someojne point out the problem with catching gold sellers?
If i write an module to transfer credits between players i can very easy add that the module sends who transferred what ammount to what player.

An primitive statistic program then tells me the top 5 or 10% of transfers, ammount and who did them

Not too hard to find out who trades currency, point out EULA to the accounts owner and use the banhammer.

Guess how they tack down people who stash away money in real life?

and here it is waaay easier, there are no banks involved who deny data because Frontier IS the bank in this case.

 

[CC Waterback]

Not only NO, but HELL NO!

^^^This!^^^

'Nuff said.

 

[Mohrgan]

Could someojne point out the problem with catching gold sellers?
If i write an module to transfer credits between players i can very easy add that the module sends who transferred what ammount to what player.

An primitive statistic program then tells me the top 5 or 10% of transfers, ammount and who did them

Not too hard to find out who trades currency, point out EULA to the accounts owner and use the banhammer.

Guess how they tack down people who stash away money in real life?

and here it is waaay easier, there are no banks involved who deny data because Frontier IS the bank in this case.

There would have to be FD people to monitor this system, adding cost. There would have to be people to arbitrate bans done in error. Because everyone is innocent, right? Adding cost. Leaving it as is keeps the overhead down.
.
I'm sure FD will decide to create a system for player to player credit transfers, but they have to develop the system so that is polices it self. I'm guessing it will happen through contracts. Something that has to be a real deterrent to the potential Credit Sellers. A way for players to hire other players to complete tasks, rather than just letting Credits become a real world commodity. I am convinced no one at FD want to see outsiders make money off of their work.

 

[Zvanya]

Not only NO, but HELL NO!

We need more reasoned logical arguments such as this.

 

[Darian]

I am all for keeping the farmers out, BUT
The point of mmo is player interaction, and transfer of cash and goods is part of that too, so if you want to make Elite deeper then there has to be something like that.

The systhem i outlined would not really take much time per week or month, you look into the top % of transactions (single and ccumulated offcourse) so anyone who really wants to make money by farming should stick out quite well.

Doing an fake transfer of money with that person gives you definite evidence = bannhammer.

That should even stand in court or law has become waaay strange..

 

[Zvanya]

There is currently no real need to hire escort in this game. No one knows if FD will increase difficulty in the future, but right now everything is easy mode.

However an escort hiring system could be established without having to integrate direct credit transfers. It could be a "Hire escort contract" that specifies the actual system to travel to. The escort then have to be within some max distance of the hiring ship until destination was reached (or else contract becomes void, there could be a countdown time to warn of to far distance). The system could also set maximum prices on escort hiring costs, based on some factors like for example: distance, hiring players ship vs. hired players ship, hired players combat rating(higher rating = higher possible escort cost), how long the two players has played the game, the systems general security status in the area and possible other factors. Taxing the escort purchase could be another feature, for example a 15% tax or something. This would effectively give you that escort hiring feature and still prevent gold sellers from using the system to sell credits.

So you advocate adding all that to the game just to avoid a much simpler system that is in the design docs already because you fear gold sellers.