Good man! It is actually in the thread but I can see that it is not that easy to see. I will update the front post with those details but you must appreciate all this stuff takes time and is hard to keep up with it all. Great to have your help. If you need pointers to finding goods PM me as I have a good idea of where to get most things.
Lets test this persistent universe and see if FD are true to their word.
- Thread starter orfeboy
- Start date
Good man! It is actually in the thread but I can see that it is not that easy to see. I will update the front post with those details but you must appreciate all this stuff takes time and is hard to keep up with it all. Great to have your help. If you need pointers to finding goods PM me as I have a good idea of where to get most things.
I'm still operating out of Hartsfield Market, taking every LFE mission I can get, and then betraying them. Why I'm still neutral to them, I have no idea. I'm also filling all of CSG's requests for covert help while moving non-lethal weapons to Balandin.
Unfortunately, I think I'll have to do some straight up trading tonight to replenish my war chest. I just recently upgraded several systems in my courier ship, and donating non-lethal weapons on top of bringing them in for a small profit, simply isn't cutting it right now. I'd ask my master for additional funds, but I know she'd say she's on a limited budget, and that I'm the most expensive asset in the system right now.
I may also check out nearby systems for missions going to CSG, or even in general. Couldn't hurt being on good terms with the neighbors, after all.
Unfortunately, I think I'll have to do some straight up trading tonight to replenish my war chest. I just recently upgraded several systems in my courier ship, and donating non-lethal weapons on top of bringing them in for a small profit, simply isn't cutting it right now. I'd ask my master for additional funds, but I know she'd say she's on a limited budget, and that I'm the most expensive asset in the system right now.
I may also check out nearby systems for missions going to CSG, or even in general. Couldn't hurt being on good terms with the neighbors, after all.
So I just experimented a bit and went to sesuang and took delivery missions TO LFE; betrayed them of course.
Results are different depending on how you betray them; this is the result of an abandoned mission:
As you can see, it hurts both partys, your contractor AND the intended recipient.
This is the result of an alternate delivery Job:
It hurts the NEW recipeint and helps your contractor.
So betraying deliverys TO LFE is definitely an option to weaken them further.
Edit: For some reason I can't upload the first results screen
Results are different depending on how you betray them; this is the result of an abandoned mission:
As you can see, it hurts both partys, your contractor AND the intended recipient.
This is the result of an alternate delivery Job:
It hurts the NEW recipeint and helps your contractor.
So betraying deliverys TO LFE is definitely an option to weaken them further.
Edit: For some reason I can't upload the first results screen
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I wonder if that changes if you're allied with another group in the system. I think I've always gotten positive influence for CSG whenever I betray an LFE mission I got in Lugh.
ollobrains
Banned
No wonder mikunn is not moving u guys have several hundred we have at most 1-2 dozen active. and then its only moving a few % each day.
ollobrains
Banned
there is so much potenital, we still arent seeing colonies expand, and stations growing and shrinking based on activyt
the current state according to the system view screen:
Crimson State Group 53%
Lugh for Equality 42.3%
Dominion of Lugh 0%
Lugh Defence Force 4%
Silver Natural 0%
After much discussion last night on mumble I would like to summarise for those who are not yet signed up. First off I would like to point out that what we are doing right now is making progress and that we will continue as per the last post until we see different but I do want to put this out there for discussion and see what people make of it. If you can see any valid argument against this synopsis please speak up, join mumble and tell us we are wrong. We want to hear from you. Contact Roybe on this forum and he will sign you up.
OK, up until now we have been going on a number of presumptions. The first is that we can induce a combat zone by triggering a civil war. I do not follow the other threads testing like us so if I am wrong someone please point it out but I am not aware of anyone actually springing a combat zone due to civil war. Infact, it is very possible that we are looking at this whole thing wrong.
My argument last night was that perhaps the missions like said before are just triggers. Missions will often bring one stat up and another down. These stats seem to create civil unrest and lockdown etc. However, up until now we have presumed that civil unrest leads to civil war. We actually do not have any proof that these two are connected except speculation. What I am suggesting is that the pending states that you see in your side panel are actually sympthoms of these missions we do. In other words, when we get too much lockdown up arrow red it will trigger a lockdown in a station (whatever that actually physically leads to in game mechanics). All the states under this heading except for expansion seem to be negatives... eg. Civil war, famine, lockdown, outbreak.
We have been presuming that civil war is a good thing and maybe it is not. Maybe it means disruption among CSG. Now I am not saying any of this is certain in any way but if you consider that missions bring stats up and down in different ways and what actually truly drives influence increase is actually trade and missions. Doing too many missions of one kind (or neglecting certain others) can push you over the edge and result in one of the states mentioned above.
What I am saying (if I may use a metaphor is perhaps we are pushing a heavy cart up a hill but this cart has wobbly wheels. It can easily fall off the road unless we are careful to keep it going straight on the road?
In summary what I am suggesting is that trade and in particular specific trade goods are what drives influence. Our stations need food, non-lethal weapons, domestic appliances etc. Things that keep the population happy. Industry needs raw materials to thrive etc. In otherwords stations need a healthy mix of goods with all the things required for stable life. Otherwise people become irate and start to rebel. Most traders will deal in gold and superconductors etc. because they make them lots of money, but this may not be what the stations need to make them money.
Items that are in high demand in the commodities screen may well be what we need to bring in in order to keep stations happy. Then the factions that are bringing this stuff in gain rep with the population and thus increase influence.
I do realise that this contradicts our current plan and we will continue doing what we are doing as it is getting some results, but this I think should be our next plan of action if we hit a stale mate. It may be influence alone that governs if you get a take over. For example, we took Balandin Gateway and if memmory serves that station was owned by the Dominion of Lugh. They are rock bottom now and we own their station. If you look at Zeta Triangulis Australis you will see they are at 77% influence and current state is expansion. I am guessing that if you were to reduce LFE to 25% then the Federation will then turn up and a combat zone will insue due to the recent take over... It may have nothing to do with pending civil war states at all...
Thoughts on this?
Crimson State Group 53%
Lugh for Equality 42.3%
Dominion of Lugh 0%
Lugh Defence Force 4%
Silver Natural 0%
After much discussion last night on mumble I would like to summarise for those who are not yet signed up. First off I would like to point out that what we are doing right now is making progress and that we will continue as per the last post until we see different but I do want to put this out there for discussion and see what people make of it. If you can see any valid argument against this synopsis please speak up, join mumble and tell us we are wrong. We want to hear from you. Contact Roybe on this forum and he will sign you up.
OK, up until now we have been going on a number of presumptions. The first is that we can induce a combat zone by triggering a civil war. I do not follow the other threads testing like us so if I am wrong someone please point it out but I am not aware of anyone actually springing a combat zone due to civil war. Infact, it is very possible that we are looking at this whole thing wrong.
My argument last night was that perhaps the missions like said before are just triggers. Missions will often bring one stat up and another down. These stats seem to create civil unrest and lockdown etc. However, up until now we have presumed that civil unrest leads to civil war. We actually do not have any proof that these two are connected except speculation. What I am suggesting is that the pending states that you see in your side panel are actually sympthoms of these missions we do. In other words, when we get too much lockdown up arrow red it will trigger a lockdown in a station (whatever that actually physically leads to in game mechanics). All the states under this heading except for expansion seem to be negatives... eg. Civil war, famine, lockdown, outbreak.
We have been presuming that civil war is a good thing and maybe it is not. Maybe it means disruption among CSG. Now I am not saying any of this is certain in any way but if you consider that missions bring stats up and down in different ways and what actually truly drives influence increase is actually trade and missions. Doing too many missions of one kind (or neglecting certain others) can push you over the edge and result in one of the states mentioned above.
What I am saying (if I may use a metaphor is perhaps we are pushing a heavy cart up a hill but this cart has wobbly wheels. It can easily fall off the road unless we are careful to keep it going straight on the road?
In summary what I am suggesting is that trade and in particular specific trade goods are what drives influence. Our stations need food, non-lethal weapons, domestic appliances etc. Things that keep the population happy. Industry needs raw materials to thrive etc. In otherwords stations need a healthy mix of goods with all the things required for stable life. Otherwise people become irate and start to rebel. Most traders will deal in gold and superconductors etc. because they make them lots of money, but this may not be what the stations need to make them money.
Items that are in high demand in the commodities screen may well be what we need to bring in in order to keep stations happy. Then the factions that are bringing this stuff in gain rep with the population and thus increase influence.
I do realise that this contradicts our current plan and we will continue doing what we are doing as it is getting some results, but this I think should be our next plan of action if we hit a stale mate. It may be influence alone that governs if you get a take over. For example, we took Balandin Gateway and if memmory serves that station was owned by the Dominion of Lugh. They are rock bottom now and we own their station. If you look at Zeta Triangulis Australis you will see they are at 77% influence and current state is expansion. I am guessing that if you were to reduce LFE to 25% then the Federation will then turn up and a combat zone will insue due to the recent take over... It may have nothing to do with pending civil war states at all...
Thoughts on this?
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I don't want to contradict you orfeboy as I feel you bring up some interesting points; however, before you consider that trading has the largest affect I wanted you to see this old post from the discussion archive. Originally it was planned that missions would have the greatest influence, so if your suspicion is correct, then things are significantly different from what was originally planned.
Check out the original post here. You have probably seen it already.
I have sampled the important part of the post and included it below.... just something to keep in mind. Good luck in Lugh.
PLAYER INFLUENCE
Players will be able to influence this system, since the meta-game will feed off of changes in the simulation from many different sources, including players. For example:
Check out the original post here. You have probably seen it already.
I have sampled the important part of the post and included it below.... just something to keep in mind. Good luck in Lugh.
PLAYER INFLUENCE
Players will be able to influence this system, since the meta-game will feed off of changes in the simulation from many different sources, including players. For example:
- Missions – generally these will have the largest positive or negative effect on the system, depending on faction, success or failure, nearby enemies or allies, the importance of the mission undertaken, and various unforeseen consequences.
- Trade – player trade will have a minor effect on the system, although a star system already under the effect of an injected event may be exploitable (i.e. food sold to a star system suffering from a famine would fetch a very good price).
- NPC interactions – attacking, defending, interacting and killing NPC’s within a star system or faction will have an effect. The everyday NPC’s met won’t be high level, so their influence will be limited to small changes. For example, killing a trader will negatively affect the wealth of his faction or star system, but not to a vast extent.
- Exploration – discoveries made by players, once sold into the system, will be unlocked for the system to use for injected events.
I have a few questions for you guys:
I have been doing a lot of work on finding rare commodities, and it seems that since 1.03 has come out the legality of some of these commodities has changed. This seems to have caused one of the confirmed rare commodities to disappear from its market.
Katzenstien Terminal in Borasetani used to sell Borasetani Pathogenetics, we believe the commodity is now illegal in the system/station so no longer shows up on the comodities market. Reading your recent post I have noticed that you managed to change the ownership of a station from one faction to another. This is very interesting as it could mean that if we manage to change the ownership of Katzenstien Terminal to a more accommodating faction the rare commodity should once again be available for us to freely trade! I would like a bit more info on how you think station ownership can be changed.
There are at least an other 3-4 rare commodities which seemed to be "locked", unlocking a rare commodity could be a great reward and incentive to take action in these system's
I have been doing a lot of work on finding rare commodities, and it seems that since 1.03 has come out the legality of some of these commodities has changed. This seems to have caused one of the confirmed rare commodities to disappear from its market.
Katzenstien Terminal in Borasetani used to sell Borasetani Pathogenetics, we believe the commodity is now illegal in the system/station so no longer shows up on the comodities market. Reading your recent post I have noticed that you managed to change the ownership of a station from one faction to another. This is very interesting as it could mean that if we manage to change the ownership of Katzenstien Terminal to a more accommodating faction the rare commodity should once again be available for us to freely trade! I would like a bit more info on how you think station ownership can be changed.
There are at least an other 3-4 rare commodities which seemed to be "locked", unlocking a rare commodity could be a great reward and incentive to take action in these system's
My thoughts are, unfortunately, that we are all reading far too much into game mechanics that are either broken or blocked. Since gamma I have stayed almost exclusively in the same backwater of the galaxy and watched the percentages in half a dozen systems. When I first arrived the %age controls in these systems changed slightly as I performed missions, but since the game was released these percentages haven't moved by even 0.1%, no matter what missions I do or which way the arrows point, or what size population the systems are. There's one system I rarely visit where two factions have been in civil war since I got there, and neither one has since budged in the slightest.
So some speculation:
a) It could easily be that an individual, or a handful of players, cannot sway a system, although that wouldn't explain the initial impact on percentages seen before release. Maybe that 1% change message is a percent of a percent e.g. if a system has a 1% chance a day of going into lockdown, then increasing it by 1% actually makes the chance 1.01% and not 2%. Maybe the percentages reset whenever the system "rolls the dice" so once it fails to go into lockdown, the lockdown chance drops back to the default value.
b) Once a player reaches Allied with a faction, anything they do no longer impacts that faction. If you want to change things, you need fresh blood in that system. This would explain the initial impact in a new system, and why things seem to stop changing quite quickly after you arrive.
c) A block has been placed on systems entering or leaving certain states, like civil war. This wouldn't surprise me since the developers needed a break over the holidays and wouldn't want to come back and find the Empire had taken over the galaxy due to some oversight in the code.
d) Things are broken. This wouldn't surprise me either. Some missions are clearly buggy (like the kill smuggler mission I got which lowered my standing with the faction that gave me it on successful completion, or the missions from one faction that raised my standing with a different faction on completion) and give the impression that the mission generator doesn't work properly in all systems.
e) Consider this - people have been trying since before the game was released to get a system to change factions and AFAIK it has never happened. If things are Working As Intended, then the mechanism is either far too obscure, or takes too much effort. Either way players are sooner or later going to stop trying.
Orfeboy: we deliver a lot of personal weapons, armour etc. to a friendly station and it triggered civil unrest critical in the system for OTHER faction. In an abstracted way factions struggle for power, I guess there are modifiers like type of government etc. but in this abstracted way if you bring weapons to "your" faction they will use it against other faction.
I can tell you this almost for sure because as soon as we diminishing weapons imports to our guys the civil unrest critical (only affecting the enemy main faction) little blue arrow it's gone.
P.S: The government type we are supporting are Alliance loyalists, and the enemy faction in an independent corporation, in case that matters.
Probably the system was fine-tuned and they went overkill in the levels of activity you have to reach to change something during the first week after release. Maybe even intentionally while most of the team is out and cannot monitor things. Frustrating and the lack of explanation does not help, but could be a reason.
I can tell you this almost for sure because as soon as we diminishing weapons imports to our guys the civil unrest critical (only affecting the enemy main faction) little blue arrow it's gone.
P.S: The government type we are supporting are Alliance loyalists, and the enemy faction in an independent corporation, in case that matters.
Probably the system was fine-tuned and they went overkill in the levels of activity you have to reach to change something during the first week after release. Maybe even intentionally while most of the team is out and cannot monitor things. Frustrating and the lack of explanation does not help, but could be a reason.
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See also here
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305
The problem with the faction simulations as described in the design archive is that an important component of the design is still missing, for the moment. That component being something like local Galnet descriptions of the states and pending states, which should give a narrative to what is happening in each system, and describe how players have affected the system, and how they might try to affect its future development. The generic description of 'civil war' in the RHS panel is too generic to be useful. For me, there is also an annoying display bug related to pending states: sometimes it shows them, sometimes there's a blank space.
But the simulation does appear to be working in general, just in ways that are currently inscrutable to players. I have seen economic boom working in a place where you could reasonably expect an economic boom, for example. There is a faction down my way in a civil war state across several systems, but I have yet to see a conflict zone, so there's no obvious way for players to affect its outcome and we can't yet see anything going on inside the black box, which results in a feeling of detachment. This will change I'm sure.
No doubt such a complex system will take time to kick into shape properly, but I'm looking forward to richer player participation in future. Lugh is a worthwhile and interesting test bed. Good work you're doing.
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Oh I know that a large part hasn't been implemented, but that is different from completely changing a mechanic, which is still a possibility but has nothing to do with an unimplemented system.
But is it a changing maechanic? They say trade affects influence. Sure, a single trade might not do much but if you bombard a station with desirable goods with lots of ships it all adds up. They may just be saying that missions provide little lump sums.
Another thing that we have not considered is that by ignoring trade in the opposition stations may be counter productive too. We have not done a whole lot to LFE over the course of this whole test and I believe that is because we have not done any real damage to their stations. Could it be that if CSG ships bring in goods for their stations they gain influence over the station?
I am not saying we do this now. We should remain focused on what we have been doing, but it is food for thought...
I'd just be happy to see even .1% of influence change in Mikunn. None of the factions have changed influence by .1% for 11 days, after we first started gaining traction in our second system. I'm convinced its either a bug or we caused enough change by expanding into a new system that the devs need to greenlight big changes. Either way, I'm interested on how things work for you because we will be in your position soon. Fortunately we wont have to do with random traders due to our seclusion from most of populated space. It will be interesting to see how much more quickly (or slowly) an influence gain happens in Mikunn once we aren't frozen anymore. That might answer your question about trade.
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Sweet. Mother. Mercy!!!