Meanwhile, in a parallel universe where the sky belongs to no man...

[Iskariot]

...they continue getting regularly new major updates with new stories, new contents and new stuff to explore. The last one was released a few hours ago.

Thanks to the gods of our universe, we will receive something new in just 6 months!

....

Yes they do get regular updates... I do. I own NMS, but sadly I don't like playing it. I have tried for 10 hours or so, and it is not for me.
It is not a space sim. The universe is cartoony, gamey and unconvincing. It never filled me with awe and wonder, like Elite does.

I agree with you. I definitely hope for a substantial update for Elite. The game really needs it.
Personally I think that walking around is not going to cut it when so many fundamental features, that are already in game, are not overhauled and not finished.
FDev has left al lot on the wayside. I have no idea why. Perhaps they lack the vision.

I wish FDev would address existing shortcomings of the game before creating new ones:

• We still have no planetary mining.
• Scavenging is an unfinished activity that needs its own tools and events.
• Piracy and bounty hunting need more depth and better mechanics.
• Smuggling, which could be one of the coolest things in the game, has been all but forgotten.
• Black markets need an overhaul too.
• The security rating of systems need to have a bigger influence on game play.
• We still have no mature NPC crew mechanic. We can't even see our hired pilot sitting in our cockpit.
• The game is lacking diversity: Empire, Aliance and Federal space all feel the same. A mining station uses the same model as industrial, military, or whatever station.
• Uninteresting multiplayer multicrew mechanic.
• Powerplay anyone...

etc.

 

[Old Duck]

And it is still a bit of a shame you cannot discuss this without yet more vague assumptions, guesses, attacks, straw men fallacies and whataboutisms. It would be appreciated if you could stop doing that. So again, don't you think that in the above scenario they should have offered refunds, instead of flying a massive banner on the steam page saying "NO REFUNDS LOL"?

Your entire story smells fishy, and your vitriol feels "emotionally unbalanced", so I can't help but be skeptical. I've never had an issue getting Steam refunds for games that don't work on my PC (usually older games that don't like Windows 10). So I'm left with vague assumptions that you played the game beyond the return cutoff or waited too long or something else. Some might say you were just dumb to buy a game on release day rather than letting it settle for a year. I've yet to buy RDR2 for PC, and I waited a good 8 months from release day before buying it on PS4. This saves me the burden of coming to this forum and telling everybody what a terrible man [insert whoever is in charge of Rockstar] is. Speaking of, does NMS run on your computer NOW? If so, then you eventually got what you paid for (plus a whole lot more).

It's also funny that you call this a discussion, as you've clearly made up your mind that Sean is a devil and Braben is a saint (thanks again for proving my point), and nothing is going to change your mind. Me, I think Sean is the better, more honorable man than Braben, and your little story of sorry won't change my mind. So we're basically sparing at this point, not "discussing" anything. The one difference between me and all the Braben-loving Sean haters is that I actually like ED more than I like NMS as a game, so I don't have the same bias as you and that other ED fanboy*.

Feel free to tap the mat at any time


* a boy or man who is an extremely or overly enthusiastic fan of someone or something (ie an accurate description of certain parties in this thread, not a strawman)

 

[Leper Messiah]

Sean Murray´s statements about multiplayer in particular (and that is just the tip of the iceberg on the list) are very well documented. These were very explicit, direct and unequivocal statements of confirmation, including even the possibility for griefing other players. Not "reading between the lines" at all I am afraid. Here just a few examples, but a cursory search will yield many others:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KkwXzLObss


You can even recognize how Sean was probably fully aware what he was doing was not right by his own trying to mitigate the lie with the comments about likelihood of encounters being very low. Why dedicate resources to develop a feature that is so improbable and unlikely in the first place?

I personally did not care much about the MP element in NMS when I bought into it so I did not mind much about that particular feature. But he lied and accepted cash, blatantly and in your face, about it (among many other things).

NMS is a great game now and Sean Murray offered his own way of "apologizing" by virtue of developing for free for 4 years. But let´s be straight with the truth. The game does not even really need attempts at history re-writing for redemption.

Do you think for just one moment, it was IN the game when he was talking about it....but shock had to be taken out due to some technical reason? Also did he categorically state under oath, pinky swear etc that mp WILL be from launch.

So just ease off on the "lies + deciet" rhetoric, it's really quite pathetic.

 

[Juniper]

To be fair the discussion about him stemmed from some ill comparisons with FDEV that necessitated that history re-write and whitewhashing so to have a chance to make any sense. Which is a bit petty imo and is begging to be addressed with the actual facts. As mentioned I believe NMS does not really necessitate that history re-write to redeem itself. Wished folks simply acknowledged it and move on instead of continuous attempts at that re-write used as excuse to innacurately deride FDEV. There are many valid points to criticize FDEV as we can see every day in the forum; history re-writing on another developer and comparisons thereof is really not one of them.

Both developers (Frontier and HG) made wild and far-reaching promises prior to release.

Both can be attributed primarily to one of two men - Sean Murray and David Braben.

One of those people redeemed themselves by making good on those wild promises.

One of them... didn't.

So the comparison is accurate & fair IMO, from a consumer point of view. Regardless of the games themselves, these comparisons will continue to be made until and unless DBOBE shows he has the cahonas that Sean Murray has in doing that. The hypocrisy of allowing Braben a free pass whilst still bad-mouthing Sean is getting very old and tired now after all these years, and it really doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

For me, Odyssey is Frontier and DBOBE's last & final chance. Time to deliver.

 

[Viajero]

Also did he categorically state under oath, pinky swear etc that mp WILL be from launch.

Yup, that video shows a few examples, the questions are pretty straightforward (and Sean answer´s too).

There are plenty more examples where those came from.

Do you think for just one moment, it was IN the game when he was talking about it....but shock had to be taken out due to some technical reason?

Of course it was not, that is why he lied multiple times. Also, if you plan in not delivering something that you have stated multiple times that will be in the game and, more importantly, people have paid good money for, then the right thing to do is to let everyone know and possibly offer them a refund.

Also, remember, multiplayer is just the most popular example, the tip of the iceberg of all the rest of content stated and sold and then not delivered.

 

[Viajero]

Both developers (Frontier and HG) made wild and far-reaching promises prior to release.

Both can be attributed primarily to one of two men - Sean Murray and David Braben.

One of those people redeemed themselves by making good on those wild promises.

One of them... didn't.

So the comparison is accurate & fair IMO, from a consumer point of view. Regardless of the games themselves, these comparisons will continue to be made until and unless DBOBE shows he has the cahonas that Sean Murray has in doing that. The hypocrisy of allowing Braben a free pass whilst still bad-mouthing Sean is getting very old and tired now after all these years.

For me, Odyssey is Frontier and DBOBE's last & final chance. Time to deliver.

Not at all. You still do not really want to acknowlede some of the main differences that make the two cases not very comparable at all.

One actually sold and charged money for lies and content not delivered. The other simply announced an intent to deliver future content (space legs etc) at an unspecified date and to be sold and charged for only at that time (exception LEPs).

The fact Sean has redeemed himself after many years is great but it does not change the original equation.

 

[Old Duck]

Both developers (Frontier and HG) made wild and far-reaching promises prior to release.

Both can be attributed primarily to one of two men - Sean Murray and David Braben.

One of those people redeemed themselves by making good on those wild promises.

One of them... didn't.

So the comparison is accurate & fair IMO, from a consumer point of view. Regardless of the games themselves, these comparisons will continue to be made until and unless DBOBE shows he has the cahonas that Sean Murray has in doing that. The hypocrisy of allowing Braben a free pass whilst still bad-mouthing Sean is getting very old and tired now after all these years, and it really doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

For me, Odyssey is Frontier and DBOBE's last & final chance. Time to deliver.

Reminds me of "The King and I", where in order for the king to appear tall, everyone else around him must be stooped down. In order for Braben to remain "tall" in the eyes of his worshipers, everyone else who competes with him in this genre must be "knocked down a peg" whether they deserve it or not.

 

[Juniper]

One actually sold and charged money for lies and content not delivered. The other didnt, and simply announced an intent to deliver future content (space legs etc) at an unspecified date and to be sold and charged only at that time (exception LEPs).

Cough

Offline mode.

Cough

They took £1.6 million of people's hard-earned cash (including a grand of mine) on the basis of that promise. The DDF, which was supposed to have a role after release (without the spike in pledges for that on the basis of that particular promise, the game would never have been made) was just quietly abandoned.

Seriously, don't even.

 

[Viajero]

Cough

Offline mode.

Cough

They took £1.6 million of people's hard-earned cash (including a grand of mine) on the basis of that promise. The DDF, which was supposed to have a role after release (without the spike in pledges for that on the basis of that particular promise, the game would never have been made) was just quietly abandoned.

Seriously, don't even.

I think you also got that one very much wrong mate. To start with I think that assigning the full responsibilty of the kickstarter crowdfund results to a single feature is a tiny bit hyperbolic.

I was going to add that case precisely as an example of how a developer can actually happen to apologize for a cancellation of sold content, and do it at the highest level with the CEO publicly fronting the bulk of the backlash here and in the media (and then have the company proceeding to acknowledge refunds to boot). Sean Murray by contrast not only was still lying and confirming non existing content close before release (nevermind announcing cancellations of said content) but also decided to disappear for the first month after release without a trace and cash in all the money while people were realizing all the lies in game for themselves.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Your entire story smells fishy, and your vitriol feels "emotionally unbalanced", so I can't help but be skeptical. I've never had an issue getting Steam refunds for games that don't work on my PC (usually older games that don't like Windows 10). So I'm left with vague assumptions that you played the game beyond the return cutoff or waited too long or something else. Some might say you were just dumb to buy a game on release day rather than letting it settle for a year. I've yet to buy RDR2 for PC, and I waited a good 8 months from release day before buying it on PS4. This saves me the burden of coming to this forum and telling everybody what a terrible man [insert whoever is in charge of Rockstar] is. Speaking of, does NMS run on your computer NOW? If so, then you eventually got what you paid for (plus a whole lot more).

It's also funny that you call this a discussion, as you've clearly made up your mind that Sean is a devil and Braben is a saint (thanks again for proving my point), and nothing is going to change your mind. Me, I think Sean is the better, more honorable man than Braben, and your little story of sorry won't change my mind. So we're basically sparing at this point, not "discussing" anything. The one difference between me and all the Braben-loving Sean haters is that I actually like ED more than I like NMS as a game, so I don't have the same bias as you and that other ED fanboy*.

Feel free to tap the mat at any time


* a boy or man who is an extremely or overly enthusiastic fan of someone or something (ie an accurate description of certain parties in this thread, not a strawman)

Thats just sad man. It is a fact that the system specs were false, it is a fact that Steam resorted to the very rare action of putting a specific banner on the page regarding refunds. Its fairly tragic that instead of acknowledging easily verified facts you have to pretend people pointing these facts out are 'emotionally unbalanced braben lover and 'Sean haters'. There is no hate, there is no vitriol, Viajero and I are just pointing out a few factual events.

Anyway, this was your third attempt and you again offered nothing but puerile insults and culty conspiracies, so I'm indeed 'tapping the mat'. Congrats mate, you won the internet!

Yup, that video shows a few examples, the questions are pretty straightforward (and Sean answer´s too).

There are plenty more examples where those came from.

Of course it was not, that is why he lied multiple times. Also, if you plan in not delivering something that you have stated multiple times that will be in the game and, more importantly, people have paid good money for, then the right thing to do is to let everyone know and possibly offer them a refund.

Also, remember, multiplayer is just the most popular example, the tip of the iceberg of all the rest of content stated and sold and then not delivered.

Its weird, innit? You can show them direct 100% unedited footage of Sean's own words and some folks here just cannot accept it. Instead they either make up their own stories and pretend that surely their fantasies must be true, start talking about other games as if issues elsewhere mitigate issues with NMS, or they just skip that part and go straight to petty ad hominems. You'd expect Braben vs Murray battles among 12-year olds when they are done arguing PS4 vs XB, not among supposed adults. Gotta admit that it is notable that this behavior appears surprisingly common in sci-fi gamer communities...

I think you also got that one very much wrong mate. To start with I think that assigning the full responsibilty of the kickstarter crowdfund results to a single feature is a tiny bit hyperbolic.

I was going to add that case precisely as an example of how a developer can actually happen to apologize for a cancellation of sold content, and do it at the highest level with the CEO publicly fronting the bulk of the backlash here and in the media (and then even proceeded to acknowledge refunds to boot). Sean Murray not only was still liying and confirming non existing content shortly before release but also decided to disappear for the first month after release without a trace.

Besides, even if Offline mode was the only 'promise' made, anyone backed for only that reason, Braben didn't tell people and nobody got a refund (which are all false, but hypothetically) then that still doesn't in any way change what happened with NMS. Braben could be the worst thing since Hitler and none of that would in any way change what factually happened with NMS or any other game development. It boggles the mind to see some people mindlessly defend A because they feel doing otherwise would undermine their anger towards B. Sean Murray lied numerous times, and that is simply a fact. You can stil llike the guy, enjoy the game, and you can also point out negative things about other developers and games while still acknowledging reality.

 

[Juniper]

I think you also got that one very much wrong mate. To start with I think that assigning the full responsibilty of the kickstarter crowdfund results to a single feature is a tiny bit hyperbolic.

Not really. I was there, and the metrics & spikes at various points were quite obvious and easily attributable. I don't get involved in the LEP debate, because even though I have two of them, I accept that this is a promise based on future content, and not something that you can really trace back to the Kickstarter.

Offline mode (which was abandoned literally one week before release, sneaked into a newsletter) was a constant question during the Kickstarter phase - and the answer was always "Yes, offline will be a thing". Many people (including myself) backed big at the £500, £750 or £1500 level specifically because it allowed you to name a station, planet or system. The understanding was that the game would exist forever on your hard drive, and not just as long as the servers were online & the game was making money for Frontier.

The DDF (£300) was poorly subscribed until DBOBE jumped in and talked about "god like powers" after release. This was completely abandoned later. Ironically, the DDF didn't actually want "god like powers" because, y'know, we're fans of the game and didn't want an extra leg-up per se. But we expected something. We got naff all. Just ignored and discarded.

These are two very specific examples of how Frontier flat out lied - in a calculated way and with malice of forethought, specifically to extract money from people. And not small amounts either.

Talk about re-writing history & whitewashing.

Well, sorry, but no - you don't get to do that.

I was going to add that case precisely as an example of how a developer can actually happen to apologize for a cancellation of sold content, and do it at the highest level with the CEO publicly fronting the bulk of the backlash here and in the media (and then have the company proceeding to acknowledge refunds to boot). Sean Murray by contrast not only was still lying and confirming non existing content close before release but also decided to disappear for the first month after release without a trace.

Probably because of the death threats he was getting, and he was hunkering down improving his game & making good on his promises. The facts seem to bear that one out.

What has Braben done? Has he bought a yacht yet?

 

[Viajero]

Not really. I was there, and the metrics & spikes at various points were quite obvious and easily attributable.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one I am afraid. Elite was sold as so much more than just that feature, and trying to assign a single cause there is just too simplistic.

Offline mode (which was abandoned literally one week before release, sneaked into a newsletter) was a constant question during the Kickstarter phase

It was announced a month before release actually. There is no such a thing as the perfect or ideal company though (FDEV is not an axception), and we can discuss (we actually did at the time for quite a while) how early should have FDEV announced it etc, and we may even agree.

But the fact is they did it. FDEV and his CEO at the front issued a widespread apology, not just here, and acknowledged refunds. That was the right thing to do. As a consequence of that decision FDEV and Braben had to endure the whole backlash from the market and investors and risks of refunds before launch.

Sean Murray by contrast not only was still lying and confirming non existing content close before release (nevermind announcing cancellations of said content or taking refunds) but also decided to disappear for the first month after release without a trace and cash in all the money while people were realizing all the lies in game for themselves.

Massive difference.

It boggles the mind to see some people mindlessly defend A because they feel doing otherwise would undermine their anger towards B

Yeah, I fear that may be a bit the gist of it. In the end this has little to do with NMS and Sean Murray. Facts dont matter as long as I can justify that anger.

 

[Juniper]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one I am afraid. Elite is so much more than just that feature, and trying to assign a single cause there is just too simplistic.

Humans are simple creatures. Whatever E: D may or may not be, or what was promised, the spikes and the timing of them was very clear & obvious. It was languishing at the £800k mark for the longest time, and it was touch and go whether the game would reach its £1.2M goal. That changed when DBOBE jumped in with his DDF promises primarily.

It was announced a month before release actually. There is no such a thing as the perfect or ideal company though (FDEV is not an axception), and we can discuss (we actually did at the time for quite a while) how early should have FDEV announced it etc, and we may even agree.

The DDF should at least have been given an inkling. We were not. We were wasting our time designing a completely different game to the one they were planning. They didn't just lie once. They lied & continued to lie for an entire year.

But the fact is they did it. FDEV and his CEO at the front issued a widespread apology, not just here, and acknowledged refunds. That was the right thing to do. As a consequence of that decision FDEV and Braben had to endure the whole backlash from the market and investors and risks of refunds before launch.

If you had played the alpha version, you were not entitled to a refund. That basically ruled out all the backers of £200 and over.

So try again...

Sean Murray by contrast not only was still lying and confirming non existing content close before release (nevermind announcing cancellations of said content or taking refunds) but also decided to disappear for the first month after release without a trace and cash in all the money while people were realizing all the lies in game for themselves.

By contrast, Sean Murray was working on his game after release and improving it... whilst DBOBE was apologising left, right and centre for lying to everyone to get their money. I know which approach I respect more... but your mileage may vary as they say. Sean could have just run off to Barbados with all the cash and never seen again. He wouldn't be the first developer to do this. He didn't. He stayed and made good, and then some.

Elite has had six years to make good. It has stagnated, and every sporadic patch seems to be even worse than the last.

Massive difference.

Indeed. Massive difference.

 

[Cotic]

Humans are simple creatures. Whatever E: D may or may not be, or what was promised, the spikes and the timing of them was very clear & obvious. It was languishing at the £800k mark for the longest time, and it was touch and go whether the game would reach its £1.2M goal. That changed when DBOBE jumped in with his DDF promises primarily.

I remember seeing a disection of kickstarters and it is common for funding to plateau. Funding tends to spike considerably in the first few days and the last few days.

Some examples, Elite https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/
Star Citizen https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/
Divinity OS2 https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin-2/
Wasteland 2 https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/

 

[Viajero]

Humans are simple creatures. Whatever E: D may or may not be, or what was promised, the spikes and the timing of them was very clear & obvious.

As mentioned we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one I am afraid. Elite was sold as so much more than just that feature, and trying to assign a single cause there is still too simplistic.

The DDF should at least have been given an inkling. We were not. We were wasting our time designing a completely different game to the one they were planning.

That does not really follows. There is a plan, you follow the plan, and do so until conditions formally change. The DDF contributors are not part of FDEV and FDEV was and still is solely responsible for the development of the game.

If you had played the alpha version, you were not entitled to a refund. That basically ruled out all the backers of £200 and over

There is no perfect or ideal company. And refunds of this kind are rarely a straightforward operation. Few companies are going to make it all too easy, and some degree of control can be arguably fair aswell as there may be also cases of abuse etc.

But that is by the by, the point is it was actually publicly acknowledged and done. Refunds were given. Also, worth to keep in mind, the actual refunds are just the tip of the iceberg of the actual impact for FDEV and Braben of the decision to come public about the cancellation. Reputational loss with the market and investors had also a serious risk to impact not just Elite but also any future business going forward for FDEV.

By contrats NMS and Sean Murray basically disappeared and simply lied and never stated any kind of content cancellation, and therby avoided any risks, and cashed in the whole sale.

By contrast, Sean Murray was working on his game after release and improving it... whilst DBOBE was apologising left, right and centre for lying to everyone to get their money. I know which approach I respect more... but your mileage may vary as they say. Sean could have just run off to Barbados with all the cash and never seen again. He wouldn't be the first developer to do this. He didn't. He stayed and made good, and then some.

Elite has had six years to make good. It has stagnated, and every sporadic patch seems to be even worse than the last.

I believe there is full alignment in the thread about what happened to NMS after release, no issues there. Few here would disagree that Sean Murray way to apologize by adding content for free is great for players.

The topic at the origin of this conversation was the equating the original content promises and what was sold for both games at the time, which is still massively different:
One actually sold and charged money for lies and content not delivered. The other simply announced an intent to deliver future content (space legs etc) at an unspecified date and to be sold and charged for only at that time (exception LEPs).

The fact Sean has redeemed himself after many years is great but it does not change the original equation.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Yup, that video shows a few examples, the questions are pretty straightforward (and Sean answer´s too).

There are plenty more examples where those came from.



Of course it was not, that is why he lied multiple times. Also, if you plan in not delivering something that you have stated multiple times that will be in the game and, more importantly, people have paid good money for, then the right thing to do is to let everyone know and possibly offer them a refund.

Also, remember, multiplayer is just the most popular example, the tip of the iceberg of all the rest of content stated and sold and then not delivered.

sigh I read that reddit post and gawd what numpty compiloed that...OMG I can't land on an asteroid? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DAMN YOU SEAN DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOO.

OMG Freighters don't move?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DAMN YOU SEAN DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOO.

No Planetary Physics? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DAMN YOU SEAN DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOO.



I could go on....I can't be arsed to watch the vid because I just know there will be no categoric statement "thing 'A' will be in game at launch".


oh and if you think NMS was the biggest dev blooper....I say again, (because I've probably mentioned it a few times in the past in these discussions with you) DAIKATANA.

 

[Viajero]

oh and if you think NMS was the biggest dev blooper....I say again, (because I've probably mentioned it a few times in the past in these discussions with you) DAIKATANA.

Oh, I do not think it is a blooper at all, no. Far from a blooper, dev one or otherwise (well, maybe the original review scores were but hey). To all accounts pre-sales and sales at launch were a resounding success.

The question that is going to kill you though is, given all the media attention if Sean Murray had done the right thing and publicly announce the cancellation of all or some of the key elements in that reddit summary (including multiplayer) and offered refunds as FDEV did for offline, would it have had the same success? Would HG have been able to develop 4 years worth of free content?

 

[AndyJ]

If you find the special & rare missions that I chumped up an extra £50 for as a "Founding Member of the Elite" let me know Viajero.
Or the multiple save slots we were promised would be coming, "but not soon" when those of us who wanted an offline game were deciding if to stick around or refund. Then there were the 3D printed ship models that some ordered and never materialised - years passed before a resolution.
And in all of this, the constant silence from FD to the KS backers - it was only when we took to public areas to shame them into refunds (and IIRC threats of going to the small-court) or implementing even the Founder decal (which took 2 attempts, the first wasn't gold/Elite-symbol) ... no the way we backers were brushed aside for a quick Christmas launch and totally ignored afterwards still grates today, and as Juniper says - history should not be rewritten.
It was an unpleasant experience for many, tarnishing the game and for me the entire KS concept.

 

[Viajero]

If you find the special & rare missions that I chumped up an extra £50 for as a "Founding Member of the Elite" let me know Viajero.
Or the multiple save slots we were promised would be coming, "but not soon" when those of us who wanted an offline game were deciding if to stick around or refund. Then there were the 3D printed ship models that some ordered and never materialised - years passed before a resolution.
And in all of this, the constant silence from FD to the KS backers - it was only when we took to public areas to shame them into refunds (and IIRC threats of going to the small-court) or implementing even the Founder decal (which took 2 attempts, the first wasn't gold/Elite-symbol) ... no the way we backers were brushed aside for a quick Christmas launch and totally ignored afterwards still grates today, and as Juniper says - history should not be rewritten.
It was an unpleasant experience for many, tarnishing the game and for me the entire KS concept.

Yeah, I am not suggesting FDEV are a saint . As I said before no company is ideal or perfect, and there will very often be gaps between sold and actuals. The point is the size of the gaps, level of misrepresentation (and related cashed in money), and the developer response for the launched product (apologizing and refunds or not etc) between these two cases at hand, as discussed above, is orders of magnitude different.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

One actually sold and charged money for lies and content not delivered. The other simply announced an intent to deliver future content (space legs etc) at an unspecified date and to be sold and charged for only at that time (exception LEPs).

Well this worked as an argument for maybe say two years from launch if I'm being generous. After almost six, it's a strawman. See I have this game here, it's currently a 2d pixel snake, but in the future I will bake in Unreal 5 support and it will be in glorious 4k VR 144Hz Neverending-story-Falkor-type-dragon-simulator. Buy now for $60. Oh, and "we have enough content planned to keep the game going for 10 years plus". Yeah, sounds familiar...

The crux of the matter is:

1. Both CEOs lied, but apparently not to the point allowing litigation, it's documented all over the internet. There were some great examples posted. If you want specific Braben "overpromises", where he wasn't grilled by reporters but blatantly lied to the camera about walking in ships or flying in gas giants, head to the Odyssey (no VR) announcement. If a word "lie" is too much to bear, retcon it to "overpromised".
2. One game flourished and is feverishly pumping content, the other stagnated beyond belief and we get vague hints that "jam later" is coming. AGAIN. Well, I'm tired of waiting, especially that there will be no VR "at launch". Prefer to play the forums more than the game right now, as it has glaring VR bugs like rendering in one eye only, or distortions in asteroid fields for more than a year now.
3. From a pure consumer standpoint, I have more than was promised in NMS, and almost nothing (of the major hype-trains of that time) that was promised in Elite.
4. From a pure consumer standpoint, I don't care if Murray lied, he overdelivered later
5. If we're taking moral angle here, of course what Murray did was morally wrong. But in my opinion it doesn't differ from what Braben did. Without going into LEP, he promised seasons and whatnot, and then was misleading us for four more years giving false hope with interviews and "10 year plans" and whatnot. I find that behaviour as condemning as Sean's lies.

In my eyes still actions are worth more than words. Sean delivered in ~2 years, Braben didn't deliver in ~6 years. And Braben is now removing VR from future development for what we know now. I really don't care if Sean "took the money" if the promised features materialised in a reasonable timeframe whereas with FDev what materialised were three other games and console ports and almost none of the promised big features, Horizons 2.0 being a honourable exception. But that was in 2015.

And I repeat, while Braben technically didn't promise anything, it's like saying "it's your fault for not reading the fine print muahahaha". So in my opinion both instances can be seen in the same light. CEOs lied. One CEO made up for his lies. The other CEO apologised for his lies and continued lying, and then went under the radar wrt Elite and only talks of zoos and dinos at the moment or how good his games sell on Steam. However, that was to be expected from a publicly traded company. The customers aren't important anymore, the stakeholders are. Seen it happen with EA and Activision, and I remember time when these names were a guarantee of a good game.