Multicrew trolling - it works!

[Starlear]

Hello Commanders!

I just thought I'd drop my own two cents in here.

The concept of Multi-crew, at its core, is about cooperation, and trust. If folk are going to troll each other, there's a limit to how much protection we can (or should) put in place.

One of gunner's abilities is to be able to fire countermeasures. Gunner can be effective at this, poor at this, or deliberately bad. Anyone who would want to go down the last track is, in my opinion, someone I would not want to Multi-crew with, or wing with.

To some degree, folk have to take responsibility for their own actions. There's no mechanical upside to this unpleasant behaviour, so I see this as different from say, crime, because the game actively encourages criminal behaviour; when folk complain that the justice system is not fair enough, we say "OK", how can we address the balance and make it fairer.

Firing shield cells repeatedly for no good reason is just an unpleasant thing to do. And I'm fairly certain it is more likely to be detrimental to the community than helpful.

It should be an option for the ship owner to tag systems in the Fire Group section for use by crew then.

So instead of fire group 1 and 2, add a third option that's M to allow us to whitelist modules for use by joining crew members or something.

I agree that it should be on the pilot to protect themselves from trolling but right now you are essentially saying that if they want to do that they should just not use multicrew.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

OP: this is very similar to the way hiring personnel is implemented in real life.

Ah yes, I remember when I was hiring my new assistant....

I opened the door, and put a sign at the desk.... then waited for the first person to sit down and do the job.... then sit nervously waiting to see if they would burn my office down

/sarcasm

 

[Einar Donarsson]

People like the op are the reason why i am disabling my SCB's and heatsinks while bountyhunting, approaching a Station i even deactivate my turrets so the Gunner doesnt get the funny idea of shooting at the Station. Sad sad world but i guess thats Humanity. Abusing each other till the end of time.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I don't get the "responsibility" thing at all, because the troll doesn't have to be responsible here, right? As Sandro pointed out, there's no mechanical upside to trolling - but there's no downside to it at all, either.

There's no "rating" or "reputation" system, so as Helm, you can't be responsible and do "due diligence" either, it's pot luck. This is like being punched in the street and the judge going "well, there was no upside for him punching you - and you should've been responsible and not gone outside where people can punch you!".

This is, literally, the logic behind victim blaming.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

 

[Mohrgan]

Why does bad behavior on the part of an individual become FD's problem? When someone goes out to spoil another players experience, what can a Developer do but react to the individual incident, and move on. It's the same as invading a PG to gank unsuspecting players. Or, joining a Wing and committing a crime, to get everyone wanted. The Commander accepting players has to be ready for the buttnuggets, and the Griefmeister has to accept what it does to their in-game reputation. If a player lacks self respect and is willing to have a reputation for griefing, he is free to do so.

My best guess at the origin of this OP is when hoping for a Forum reaction from one of his victims,and failing to get one, he was forced to open the reaction thread himself. Troll doing troll work, and looking for attention for it.

 

[bitstorm]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Can I ask where you stand on shadow banning players who abuse features to the detriment of other players?

This case seems quite clear cut?

 

[Lana]

I guess I don't understand why handing over utilities to the gunner role is mandatory. On my ship when I have a gunner I only retain one single weapon for myself and am the one paying most attention to the ship itself so it makes the most sense for me to keep using the utilities as the gunner is focused on *other* ships anyway. Should be an option for the helm to keep them from the gunner if they desire.

Similarly it would be nice to have an open/lock on the two roles because sometimes I don't want gunners at all, I want fighters.

 

[Starlear]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Of course someone who desperately wants to misbehave can do so. But I think giving the helm options to limit negative interaction throughout kind of system whitelist is a huge improvement.

If this was added and the ability for gunners to deploy hardpoints was removed, there would be very little a troublemaker could do to get their joined ship in trouble. At worst you would be looking at some small bounty for assault, and then the helm could retract hardpoints and get out of there, wait out their 10 minute bounty, and replace or scold the crew member.

 

[Minonian]

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Except aside of helm permission also there is a friendly/neutral fire permission.(except criminals) Wrong target? Fire control forbid it.
(just add the things like this to button 4 ship control panel)

 

[Monk]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

As one, likely insignificant, anecdote to take back to the meeting room. Giving me executive control over permission to use utilities would push me past the hurdle of opening my ship up to other players.

 

[zarrazee]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Helm permissions is a big "yes please" Bob from me. I don't like having to disable SCB until my crew mate is out in the SLF. Also, I don't like that crew love taking control of the KWS.

 

[lysan]

Can I ask where you stand on shadow banning players who abuse features to the detriment of other players?

This case seems quite clear cut?

Open would be one big shadow ban galaxy LMAO!!!

 

[Rob At Work]

Despite your assumptions i was one of three players, try to protect the Dev in a livestream. while the rest of the lobby killed him over and over again.

Was you having a bad day, that day? (or just ill or sumut?)

 

[bitstorm]

Open would be one big shadow ban galaxy LMAO!!!

That's fine trolls can just troll each other.

 

[madbilly]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Thanks Sandro, excellent follow-up to the key points, especially your clarification about your view of MC-trolling (I hear he'll be in Ibiza this summer) and what FDev might potentially (no ETAs no guarantees etc) do about it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why does bad behavior on the part of an individual become FD's problem? When someone goes out to spoil another players experience, what can a Developer do but react to the individual incident, and move on. It's the same as invading a PG to gank unsuspecting players. Or, joining a Wing and committing a crime, to get everyone wanted. The Commander accepting players has to be ready for the buttnuggets, and the Griefmeister has to accept what it does to their in-game reputation. If a player lacks self respect and is willing to have a reputation for griefing, he is free to do so.

My best guess at the origin of this OP is when hoping for a Forum reaction from one of his victims,and failing to get one, he was forced to open the reaction thread himself. Troll doing troll work, and looking for attention for it.

i somewhat agree... however the important thing is we are given tools to enable the ball to be fully in our court to police ourselves. the karma system would be a massive boon, but manageable tools for a block list, one which will NEVER instance with a blocked player if we so choose, and one we can populate without having to ever have been instanced with a bad apple.

 

[Minonian]

That's fine trolls can just troll each other.

What do you think how long it takes before they are all ban out each others?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Hello commanders!

Just a little follow up here.

First, I'm not ruling out adding helm permissions for various module control. Such additions will have to be judged against other work that's ongoing, but that's normal development. I understand the benefits of such a permissions system.

Second, as I mentioned in my earler posts, I find the concept of trolling in Multi-crew unpleasant and I would block such folk to prevent repeat occurrences. It's definitely the kind of behaviour that would warrant investigation when we get around to a karma system (No ETA, no guarantee, but it's on the big list).

But we have to accept that even with the most basic option (shooting turrets), a player who wants to misbehave still can. They could open fire at an invalid target, potentially inviting ship destruction. It has similarities to being attacked out of the blue by wingmen.

Sandro, is Karma part of 2.4 CP updates or it is still a thing far away?

 

[Straha Yeagar]

i somewhat agree... however the important thing is we are given tools to enable the ball to be fully in our court to police ourselves. the karma system would be a massive boon, but manageable tools for a block list, one which will NEVER instance with a blocked player if we so choose, and one we can populate without having to ever have been instanced with a bad apple.

This would seem like a no brainer, however, FDev have typically taken stances to minimize the ability of out of game black lists, so your suggestion seems highly unlikely.