My open letter to Fdev

[Becks]

But that's the thing - they say that some of this happens, but I didn't notice any of it and so there was no atmosphere change. It needs to be significant enough to be immediately noticable by people coming to the system, and last long enough, so that real player agency is achieved.

I honestly don't know how hard those effects hit.

I for my part noticed it, since I got interdicted two times by NPCs on the 20 light seconds trip to Ramsbottom Hub

All good points, but none of these issues look insurmountable and you never know till you try.

I'd love to see a PvP CG with a PvP group ballsy enough to face up and be the target (It might even drive up their recruitment), even though I'm not usually a PvPer - only ever took on another commander about 10 times and I think I only won twice!

I'm pretty sure these issues are resolvable
Just not in the limited time FDev had to react.

A PvP CG would definitely be cool and get the attention of certain engaged parts of the community

 

[Raisa]

'If impossible' to implement because it just simply can't be done

it can be done,and all you need is a few lines of code added or replaced on the SERVER side of things. and it won't bring the end of the world to anyone.
Open, Private and solo are not separate servers as some of you are saying. If they would be, all of those modes would have the galaxy in a diffrent state.

Player vs Enviroment vs Player is all about this game. The Wings update, the upcoming multi-crew where you will get to carry a fighter inside of your bigger ship. All of the FDev talk about player vs player INTERACTION (not only killing traders for giggles as some of you assume is the ONLY pvp possible). And when the day comes and i and many other players will get to have a proper chance at escorting/protecting player traders or get to raid pirate-player bases in the asteroid fields and do many more things with the COMMUNITY of Elite, i will neither quit the game or resort to petty insults how someone is "uninformed" about something they acctualy researched and listened to the devs themselves talking about their game and their plans

[video=youtube;jcUwQnxDgWo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUwQnxDgWo[/video]

 

[Roybe]

it can be done,and all you need is a few lines of code added or replaced on the SERVER side of things. and it won't bring the end of the world to anyone.
Open, Private and solo are not separate servers as some of you are saying. If they would be, all of those modes would have the galaxy in a diffrent state.

Player vs Enviroment vs Player is all about this game. The Wings update, the upcoming multi-crew where you will get to carry a fighter inside of your bigger ship. All of the FDev talk about player vs player INTERACTION (not only killing traders for giggles as some of you assume is the ONLY pvp possible). And when the day comes and i and many other players will get to have a proper chance at escorting/protecting player traders or get to raid pirate-player bases in the asteroid fields and do many more things with the COMMUNITY of Elite, i will neither quit the game or resort to petty insults how someone is "uninformed" about something they acctualy researched and listened to the devs themselves talking about their game and their plans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUwQnxDgWo

How do the devs guarantee everyone in Open can be seen by all players in Open?

 

[Ian Skippy]

it can be done,and all you need is a few lines of code added or replaced on the SERVER side of things. and it won't bring the end of the world to anyone.
Open, Private and solo are not separate servers as some of you are saying. If they would be, all of those modes would have the galaxy in a diffrent state.

You still dont get it. This game is p2p. That will not change. Even if there only was Open, you still wont see people who like Solo, because you cannot connect to them via p2p unless they want you to. In other words, we can all be in 'Open', but never in the same instance. That cannot be changed.

 

[Roybe]

You still dont get it. This game is p2p. That will not change. Even if there only was Open, you still wont see people who like Solo, because you cannot connect to them via p2p unless they want you to. In other words, we can all be in 'Open', but never in the same instance. That cannot be changed.

have some rep.

 

[Becks]

it can be done,and all you need is a few lines of code added or replaced on the SERVER side of things. and it won't bring the end of the world to anyone.

All you need is a few lines of code ... I think literally every programmer who has ever heard this sentence wanted to slap his opponent twice or trice across the face. It's never as simple as 'a few lines of code', especially not if you consider all the networking ED does.

Open, Private and solo are not separate servers as some of you are saying. If they would be, all of those modes would have the galaxy in a diffrent state.

I agree. They are only different lists of players with whom you can instance. The BGS runs on a single system while all these CMDR, no matter the list, can manipulate it. Setting up a second BGS for Solo or PG is probably simply too expensive to do for FDev (even if they wanted to).

Player vs Enviroment vs Player is all about this game. The Wings update, the upcoming multi-crew where you will get to carry a fighter inside of your bigger ship. All of the FDev talk about player vs player INTERACTION (not only killing traders for giggles as some of you assume is the ONLY pvp possible). And when the day comes and i and many other players will get to have a proper chance at escorting/protecting player traders or get to raid pirate-player bases in the asteroid fields and do many more things with the COMMUNITY of Elite, i will neither quit the game or resort to petty insults how someone is "uninformed" about something they acctualy researched and listened to the devs themselves talking about their game and their plans

PvP is not the point of Elite, it never was and it will never be, since PvP isn't in the interest of the majority of the community. FDev and DBOBE made that pretty clear.
PvP can exists as a side activity nonetheless.

I honestly don't know what plans you're talking about. Abolishing the modes is surely not on the list of things to do for FDev.

 

[Raisa]

@Becks You don't know what the majority of the community wants

 

[Becks]

@Becks You don't know what the majority of the community wants

Actually I do.

Since this topic is discussed since years in here and every poll and discussion has led to the same conclusion: The majority of the players don't want Open Only.

 

[Roybe]

All you need is a few lines of code ... I think literally every programmer who has ever heard this sentence wanted to slap his opponent twice or trice across the face. It's never as simple as 'a few lines of code', especially not if you consider all the networking ED does.



I agree. They are only different lists of players with whom you can instance. The BGS runs on a single system while all these CMDR, no matter the list, can manipulate it. Setting up a second BGS for Solo or PG is probably simply too expensive to do for FDev (even if they wanted, too).



PvP is not the point of Elite, it never was and it will never be, since PvP isn't in the interest of the majority of the community. FDev and DBOBE made that pretty clear.
PvP can exists as a side activity nonetheless.

I honestly don't know what plans you're talking about. Abolishing the modes is surely not on the list of things to do for FDev.

Basically, the problem here would be forked universes...which would each require their own devs to keep things straight. In A the Empire win In B the terrorists win. Also people would be concentrated differently...but having similar bugs needing repair...so more support issues...etc. etc.

The modes aren't going anywhere. Peer to Peer isn't changing. Everyone has to have equal input into what is occurring in the galaxy. PvP is not going to get 'improved' because of all this.

 

[Teldja]

You still dont get it. This game is p2p. That will not change. Even if there only was Open, you still wont see people who like Solo, because you cannot connect to them via p2p unless they want you to. In other words, we can all be in 'Open', but never in the same instance. That cannot be changed.

Thank you for taking the time to explain, again, that simple but very important (technical) fact.

Elite Dangerous does not rely on a Servers-Clients networking architecture but on a Peer to Peer model : this should be a sticky somewhere for everyone to see before posting a complain about Solo vs Private Group vs Open Play.

 

[Raisa]

Actually I do.

Since this topic is discussed since years in here and every poll and discussion has led to the same conclusion: The majority of the players don't want Open Only.

a minority of people voting or some polls on forum are not the majority of people playing the game and never posting on forums

 

[Becks]

a minority of people voting or some polls on forum are not the majority of people playing the game and never posting on forums

Because the majority of people playing the game and posting on the forums apparently don't care enough about wheter it should be Open Only or not to voice their opinion in the forums.

That's not an argument for you.

 

[Harpeizanae]

I feel like this thread. Or at least the current Ur-Dragon generation of it. Should be a sticky and first reference for a few of these questions. The first post should be required reading.

The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

 

[Raisa]

Because the majority of people playing the game and posting on the forums apparently don't care enough about wheter it should be Open Only or not to voice their opinion in the forums.

That's not an argument for you.

tell me, do the polls have a full 1.7 million player count vote distributed ? or is it maybe 30k,50k or 100k at most

 

[Mouse]

......lol Oh I'm filled with comfort :O on those words.. as long as I'm not lunch

It is so funny that they view PVErs as Pacifists.. a clear indication that they don't have a clue

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You're right, but that only works in a non-competitive scenario (which this game does not, by its nature, lore or mechanics engender).

When it becomes competitive, you as a GM must stick within the framework you built. If two players characters have an issue, let them thrash it out within the game and the world you've built, not by god-modding.

Not true, especially when one group decides to try and circumvent the framework...If you are working on a campaign and one player keeps doing things you've asked them not to and their reply is "well it is in the core rules" even you've explained that they have been tweaked slightly to fit the campaign... I've seen many a DM/GM come down hard.

 

[Becks]

tell me, do the polls have a full 1.7 million player count vote distributed ? or is it maybe 30k,50k or 100k at most

Not even close to thirty thousand.

But like I said: If the rest of the people doesn't give enough of a      about the mode system to voice their opinion here, it's safe to say that they're not uncomfortable with the current system.

That makes the percentage of people supporting a change even smaller.

Anyways, this is too much offtopic. Join the Open v Solo v Groups thread to discuss this. Harpeizane posted a link above.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

tell me, do the polls have a full 1.7 million player count vote distributed ? or is it maybe 30k,50k or 100k at most

1.7 million is a poll by itself. That many purchased the game with the 3 modes as advertised. People don't want pvp. People want to just play with friends without interference from anyone else. Others want single player experience like every other Elite game. The system is as advertised and it has sold well as advertised.

 

[Mouse]

Well. If this wax unauthorized, all members involved should be held accountable. Perhaps demotions? Removal of ships? Since we're role-playing

Now that would be funny

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Deja vu all over again. Welcome to the Hotel California. Maybe a mod could rename the thread SOG V?

Seems some want it to merge with SOG *shrug*

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They're not participants! They wrote the rules and can literally do whatever they want with them whenever they want - they are the gamemaster. And when things didn't go the way they wanted for their railroad story they heavyhandedly changed the rules underneath their players and then tried to justify it with some random 'lore' post-hoc. It stinks, regardless of whether you agree witht he 13ths actions in the Mobius Private GRoup or not.

The GM/DM are participants in the game.. they work to make the game flow smoothly as they can.. and sometimes they have to be heavy handed.. especially when they have players who do all they can to push the edges of rules.

No, they are the gamemaster controlling some major NPCs. Of course they should be able to, but they should do it by turning up with a fleet of ship, breaking the blockage, attacking the players who did it and then restoring order to the system... which takes time. I'd say it takes, say, three days perhaps? Then perhaps the Feds could have extended the CG with an increased security presence.

This also would have been engagement, agency, consequence, emergent gameplay and a dynamic universe.

Instead we go an insta-fix under-the-hood rules change followed by a one paragraph post-hoc justification and no obvious impact in-game on the way the system plays or feels. Which sucks.

That would have been nice to see, I just have one question... are you going to code it? And do it fast enough?

 

[Mouse]

one of the major selling points of the game is player interaction with other players, it is advertised as a multiplayer/MMO game to this very day.
are you going to pay for the refunds of people that got baited in to buy the game now ? from 1.7 million copies sold(i know that some of you bought it multiple times to "support" Fdev) you have maybe 2500 players in game right now and it will peak at around 4000 again tonight(european time) are you going to pay refunds to around a million of players?

At no point was that selling point PVP.. player interaction does not equate PVP.. it never has.

 

[Dave1235]

I bought the game knowing about the modes so I wouldn't have to put up with the kind of people the 13th and SDC represent. This was known to me well before I bought the game.

If you don't like the way the modes work, you should have thought of that before you bought the game. Do your research. Don't make me and anyone else who did infor4m theirselves suffer because you're to lazy to look into what you're buying. You made the error of judgment. Blame yourself.

Don't like it, get lost.

well said