My open letter to Fdev

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I love how the term "griefer" is thrown around by the bleaters, especially when the game is DESIGNED to pit players against each other players.. The mechanics are working as intended, crying about being killed by players is not only childish, its sad. The game has a huge PvP element, PvP is not griefing and I doubt that the ones throwing that term around actually KNOW what griefing is :) SO, please do a bit of research before unloading your butthurt on the PvPers, it makes you look even more foolish.

PvP in open is not griefing, neithers is ganking, ramming or anything else apparently. BUT going into a private group where you know your "victims" are not allowed to shoot back or risk getting kicked along with the attackers IS griefing.
 
i have never said that the mode choices suck, just that specific parts need to be looked into to balance it out. and When did i raid a private group ?
and why is a change not allowed to happen according to you ?

@ziggy how about you simply go and educate yourself that this game is not only for you, and that there are people knowing about Elite: Dangerous since the very first days of the Kickstarter. And if you simply don't respect other views, You should be the one to get lost

I thought you were a member of one of the groups responsible for the latest stupidity. If not...my apologies. The change is not my personal choice...I posted somewhere in here that over a year ago...I made very similar statements to this thread. Once I came to understand how the game works...I realized that the devs cannot change the design...even if they wanted to. The players are going to have to deal with the design...or not. If you cannot deal with the design...then you can tilt at windmills here all you desire. Or you can leave and shrug and say it 'coulda been a contender'.

Regardless...the devs main idea was that every player is an equal in the game...not an equivalence. Every player must have exactly the same input, regardless of where they play. All design choices came from this...the lack of PvP influence within the galaxy, the PtP networking choice, etc. There is no reason for any player to actually use the multiplayer feature...by design.

To actually change this idea would first, null any contractual obligation the devs have with their consumers...as the vast majority of the users bought the game on the basis of this feature. Second, the whole of the game would have to be re-written to change the modes to equivalence rather than equality...and finally, the devs have clearly stated that there is no way they will change the modes...or the influence of each mode in relation to any other.

Remember...we are all playing in the same galaxy...the 'modes' are just who can see who. In other words...you are flying right next to someone in solo in any high population activity...you just can't see them. To break the 'modes' out would have to be a huge redesign, just based on this.
 
PvP in open is not griefing, neithers is ganking, ramming or anything else apparently. BUT going into a private group where you know your "victims" are not allowed to shoot back or risk getting kicked along with the attackers IS griefing.

No its NOT. Its rude and childish but its NOT griefing, a griefer is someone who hounds/pursues a player killing them multiple times, usually over a period of time. Now, what you describe is NOT "griefing", get over it or LTP
 
yeah, making 70% of the player base unhappy to cater to the needs of some PvPers in open, great idea ^^

Oh no, have to appease the "griefed" lol. All joking aside, do you not think that by mode switching for CG's is an exploit? Changing modes to avoid combat? I seem to remember a big speech about people "exploiting" Robigo yet hiding in solo to avoid combat is acceptable? More like having your cake and eating it methinks. Yes FD, appease the griefed and bork the game even more.....
 
Oh no, have to appease the "griefed" lol. All joking aside, do you not think that by mode switching for CG's is an exploit? Changing modes to avoid combat? I seem to remember a big speech about people "exploiting" Robigo yet hiding in solo to avoid combat is acceptable? More like having your cake and eating it methinks. Yes FD, appease the griefed and bork the game even more.....


In this game it is not an exploit...different game, different rules. If you learn to play, the problem dissapears.
 
No its NOT. Its rude and childish but its NOT griefing, a griefer is someone who hounds/pursues a player killing them multiple times, usually over a period of time. Now, what you describe is NOT "griefing", get over it or LTP

much like mmo i put it to you there is a range of activities which could be construed as griefing, for every definition which you find which just has it as your quote i could find a more broader definition. Some people consider combat logging as griefing but that does not fit your criteria.

indeed you proved my point in your post (by chance I am a geneticist) the generally accepted abbreviation of LTP is Long term potentiation. I may be wrong but I am guessing it means something different to you (I have no idea what but it proves my point, there is no 1 set in stone exact term for griefing either imo).

your assumption that mobius players changed modes to avoid combat for the CG is you next mistake. I suspect those who really wanted to could just as easily have mode swapped into SOLO, so why does mobius get the short end of the stick?
 
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Oh no, have to appease the "griefed" lol. All joking aside, do you not think that by mode switching for CG's is an exploit? Changing modes to avoid combat? I seem to remember a big speech about people "exploiting" Robigo yet hiding in solo to avoid combat is acceptable? More like having your cake and eating it methinks. Yes FD, appease the griefed and bork the game even more.....
Uhm ... an exploit is making use of a feature in an unintended manner. Doing a CG in private mode/solo is not an exploit.

edit: as opposed to refreshing the board by mode switching, that was not why the modes were implemented.

I don't know what LTP means, but back atcha! :p
 
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First: It took some time to lift the lockdown. 12 hours at least. That's a normal and plausible reaction time. Why should it take three days and a complete halt of the operation to reopen the market? That makes no sense.

It kinds does - When something is bad enough to shut down all trade for a major economy it doesn't just restart overnight. Especially in a universe where we only kind-of have instant communication - some things like galaxy map updates are instant communication, but other things ares - hence the message/data courier missions and the lack of instantly available bubble-wide market information at least in station if not in our cockpits.

Second: FDev acknowlegded the player effort in an article and strengthened the federal presence in the area as a consequence. Like I already said.
I haven't seen any of this in the system. It doesn't feel or look any different to me (mind you, it didn't feel or look any different when it went into lockdown either so...).

Third: What kind of effect on the tone/character/behaviour of the system are you imagining? And are they even possible with the current BGS or would you need changes? Or are you talking about player behaviour? Please explain that point.

I don't know what is possible with the current systems, but some examples of things that would change the tone of the system might include a much larger security presence with stronger ships, system wide broadcasts of information about who to look out for and report and detailing the new stop-and-scan policy, very increased interdiction rate, a capital ship at, or near, the station, small to wild price fluctuations of basic commodities like food as the lockdown goes on. Perhaps a desperate call federation-wide for indep. pilots to come help break the blockage.

If it was me I might even have spoken with the 13th and asked them if they would be game for spawning another CG with the aim of breaking the blockade by killing their members! If they were game, either make a PvP based CG ( whole section of the community would have been all over that!) or start spawning some NPC members of the 13th for the blockade...

Fourth: What should have been is entirely your opinion.

Well, yes, obviously.


I think we need a 'Blockade' state for the BGS. Killing of a significant number traders and system authority triggers first lockdown for some time, if it continues the Blockade state is triggered and overrides the Lockdown state. The markets reopen and system authority in the system increases. Delivering commodities and handing in bounties works against the Blockade, killing traders and system authority works towards it.
At the same time pirate activity should increase, too.
Or, if the controlling faction belongs to a superpower and there's a rivaling faction of another superpower in the system, a militia type of NPCs could spawn, which hunts down traders and opposes system authority.
This would require a removement or a reduction of the minimum duration of the lockdown.
Incentives for blockade running then could be higher prices in the markets for basic low price items such as food cartridges etc.
Could have some negative effects on the controlling faction, too. For example if the Blockade goes for a fixed time, let's say more than two weeks, the states Famine and Civil Unrest could trigger, depending on how sucessful the blockade runners were.

Just a little idea of mine, feel free to pick it apart.

This is an excellent idea! I particularly agree with wild price fluctuations of products as people in the system begin to panic buy and horde - the longer the blockade lasts the higher the prices gets! It could also trigger missions on the boards for food and supplies at high prices to circumvent the market, perhaps and increase in pleading charity missions, and (if we ever see them) missions to escort and protect key trade shipments. Adds a real sense of agency and dynamism to the universe for intensive for traders, pirates, PvE and PvP alike.

(see, I knew we'd agree on something eventually :D )
 
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..and they cannot change it the way people want them to. It, is the only thing that, literally, would destroy the game.

To me, it seems like it could be implemented easily enough. There are now places in the current galaxy you can not enter without a permit. Stage some CG's in the same manner perhaps, in some far reach of space, so if it is a 'combat community goal', then you need a permit to join the battle in a restricted area. That permit requires you enter that area in open play only.

Those who do not want to participate, just don't ask for the permit. lol

Incentive for playing in an actual 'live' CG with real community players would be much higher reward, because it is higher risk.

The players who want exciting human interaction will get what they want and always craved and been looking for in a space game. Epic battles.

'If impossible' to implement because it just simply can't be done, maybe some other game developer's out there are reading this forum and some of the ideas here and those light bulbs are going off in their heads right now. One can only hope.

;-)
 
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It kinds does - When something is bad enough to shut down all trade for a major economy it doesn't just restart overnight. Especially in a universe where we only kind-of have instant communication - some things like galaxy map updates are instant communication, but other things ares - hence the message/data courier missions and the lack of instantly available bubble-wide market information at least in station if not in our cockpits.

It's true that a major economy won't start over night.

But I think the closing of the market during lockdown is more to keep traders away from the system as it's currently very dangerous. The economy probably only works from their stocks into their storages to sell after the lockdown has been lifted (I don't know enough about the economy simulation of the BGS :p )

I don't know what is possible with the current systems, but some examples of things that would change the tone of the system might include a much larger security presence with stronger ships, system wide broadcasts of information about who to look out for and report and detailing the new stop-and-scan policy, very increased interdiction rate, a capital ship at, or near, the station, small to wild price fluctuations of basic commodities like food as the lockdown goes on. Perhaps a desperate call federation-wide for indep. pilots to come help break the blockage.

That is pretty much what happens during a lock down :)

Increased security presence, higher interdiction rate, stop and scan policy.

If it was me I might even have spoken with the 13th and asked them if they would be game for spawning another CG with the aim of breaking the blockade by killing their members! If they were game, either make a PvP based CG ( whole section of the community would have been all over that!) or start spawning some NPC members of the 13th for the blockade...

Problem with the lockdown is the minimum duration. You have three days were it doesn't matter how many players work against it.

While it's a good idea to make such things as a PvP CG for breaking a blockade I'm not entirely sure if it's possible. How would the game know how belongs to the 13th and who not? Would instancing allow an operation of that size? How would you fight/punish combat logging during such a CG?

Too many variables to set something like this quickly up :/

Besides, with the attitude the 'Lord Commander' of the 13th displayed here and on reddit, it's highly unlikely that 13th and FDev could make an agreement over something like this.

This is an excellent idea! I particularly agree with wild price fluctuations of products as people in the system begin to panic buy and horde - the longer the blockade lasts the higher the prices gets! It could also trigger missions on the boards for food and supplies at high prices to circumvent the market, perhaps and increase in pleading charity missions, and (if we ever see them) missions to escort and protect key trade shipments. Adds a real sense of agency and dynamism to the universe for intensive for traders, pirates, PvE and PvP alike.

(see, I knew we'd agree on something eventually :D )

Thanks. :)

I'm not particulary against PvP, I just don't like it forced upon me. Something like that blockade state would make the effect of a blockade in open visible through all three modes.
You could even give CMDRs a higher value in that system.
For example, a killed CMDR with/without bounty counts five times as much towards/against the blockade as a NPC.

Of course you would need measures to prevent an abuse of that system like a cap or a cooldown.
 
I bought the game knowing about the modes so I wouldn't have to put up with the kind of people the 13th and SDC represent. This was known to me well before I bought the game.

If you don't like the way the modes work, you should have thought of that before you bought the game. Do your research. Don't make me and anyone else who did infor4m theirselves suffer because you're to lazy to look into what you're buying. You made the error of judgment. Blame yourself.

Don't like it, get lost.


Are you mad ?
How dare you ask them to READ and to do some RESEARCH before making a decision in order to buy a video game ?
It doesn't work like that any more.

No, nowadays you buy an orange and Wonder why that fruit doesn't taste more like an apple.
And only then you TRY to think and come to the conclusion that not only that orange should definitely taste like an apple but should also have the shape of a banana !

Because, you know, why not ? After all, every other opinion sucks and mine is so much better I say ! ;)
 
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To me, it seems like it could be implemented easily enough. There are now places in the current galaxy you can not enter without a permit. Stage some CG's in the same manner perhaps, in some far reach of space, so if it is a 'combat community goal', then you need a permit to join the battle in a restricted area. That permit requires you enter that area in open play only.

Those who do not want to participate, just don't ask for the permit. lol

Incentive for playing in an actual 'live' CG with real community players would be much higher reward, because it is higher risk.

The players who want exciting human interaction will get what they want and always craved and been looking for in a space game. Epic battles.

'If impossible' to implement because it just simply can't be done, maybe some other game developer's out there are reading this forum and some of the ideas here and those light bulbs are going off in their heads right now. One can only hope.

;-)


And I'll go and play their game under their rules and not complain that the rules are different there.

Just like I stopped complaining here...and enjoy the game a whole lot more now.
 
It's true that a major economy won't start over night.

That is pretty much what happens during a lock down :)

Increased security presence, higher interdiction rate, stop and scan policy.

But that's the thing - they say that some of this happens, but I didn't notice any of it and so there was no atmosphere change. It needs to be significant enough to be immediately noticable by people coming to the system, and last long enough, so that real player agency is achieved.

While it's a good idea to make such things as a PvP CG for breaking a blockade I'm not entirely sure if it's possible. How would the game know how belongs to the 13th and who not? Would instancing allow an operation of that size? How would you fight/punish combat logging during such a CG? Too many variables to set something like this quickly up :/
Besides, with the attitude the 'Lord Commander' of the 13th displayed here and on reddit, it's highly unlikely that 13th and FDev could make an agreement over something like this.

All good points, but none of these issues look insurmountable and you never know till you try.

I'd love to see a PvP CG with a PvP group ballsy enough to face up and be the target (It might even drive up their recruitment), even though I'm not usually a PvPer - only ever took on another commander about 10 times and I think I only won twice!
 
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To me, it seems like it could be implemented easily enough. There are now places in the current galaxy you can not enter without a permit. Stage some CG's in the same manner perhaps, in some far reach of space, so if it is a 'combat community goal', then you need a permit to join the battle in a restricted area. That permit requires you enter that area in open play only.

Those who do not want to participate, just don't ask for the permit. lol

Incentive for playing in an actual 'live' CG with real community players would be much higher reward, because it is higher risk.

The players who want exciting human interaction will get what they want and always craved and been looking for in a space game. Epic battles.

'If impossible' to implement because it just simply can't be done, maybe some other game developer's out there are reading this forum and some of the ideas here and those light bulbs are going off in their heads right now. One can only hope.

;-)

Of course there is the white elephant in the room...in your example..I take the permit...go into Open and guarantee myself never to see another player the whole time! And there is nothing that the devs could do to stop it....So I get to play...and still don't have to see players. And all I would have to do is turn on a feature within the config file itself.

What people want is impossible...you cannot guarantee seeing anyone in Open...even IF they are all playing there. Learn to play the game as it is....becauses it cannot be changed to do what people want.
 
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