PvP my pvp experience

[Arguendo]

If you've been brawling for 10 mins as Algo says it's a little weaksauce, but I'm not going to get salty. I certainly wouldn't suggest they're going to get ridiculed by the PvP community; we save that kind of shame for the task killers.

There is certainly some ridicule in parts of the PvP community, as Algomatic says. Several groups have acquired nicknames loosely mixing their group name and the word "highwaking." Pretty much if you don't lowwake or die, you're not worthy.

 

[StiTch]

There is certainly some ridicule in parts of the PvP community, as Algomatic says. Several groups have acquired nicknames loosely mixing their group name and the word "highwaking." Pretty much if you don't lowwake or die, you're not worthy.

Getting salty because someone did the wrong type of wake is just petty. It's long been established death is effectively optional regardless.

If you made a break for it, you lost and couldn't take it (or got into a 20 min iCutter fight and are still only halfway through your resources). That's about as far as the story goes for me.

 

[Arguendo]

Getting salty because someone did the wrong type of wake is just petty. It's long been established death is effectively optional regardless.

If you made a break for it, you lost and couldn't take it (or got into a 20 min iCutter fight and are still only halfway through your resources). That's about as far as the story goes for me.

You should visit some well known Discord(s). It's quite prevalent in certain circles tbh.

 

[StiTch]

You should visit some well known Discord(s). It's quite prevalent in certain circles tbh.

If someone gives me a reason it's important I'd genuinely be interested to hear it, but I think we reached the conclusion that consequence doesn't exist in ED a long time ago. Being honest, how often will the outcome be different if you low waked instead of high waked? An agile combat ship on the run with any level of reasonable evasive manoeuvres has a basically guaranteed escape anyway.

If ya tried to run after quarter of an hour you lost your bottle. Simples

 

[Arguendo]

If someone gives me a reason it's important I'd genuinely be interested to hear it, but I think we reached the conclusion that consequence doesn't exist in ED a long time ago. Being honest, how often will the outcome be different if you low waked instead of high waked? An agile combat ship on the run with any level of reasonable evasive manoeuvres has a basically guaranteed escape anyway.

I'm pretty sure you know what the reason for such a "rule" is
Difference or not, it's a thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sovapid]

What a load of ballcocky hypocrisy.

Is Algomatic right? Is this seen as lame in "the PvP community"?

For the most part yes.

And it is because high waking is so easy and there, for the most part, isnt a way to stop it. It is faster than menu logging.

I ryan_m's latest video, that is a sound clip of unrealyjay from 13th legion and a screenshot of an entire instance of "enemies" that highwaked out.

You can tell from jay's voice the disdain for highwaking (although he used to do it all the time too, not sure if he still does).

And the screenshot of the highwakes is to "rub it in". If those were all low wakes, they probably would not have made the video.

https://youtu.be/fVFNYhi31ww?t=50

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I ryan_m's latest video, that is a sound clip of unrealyjay from 13th legion and a screenshot of an entire instance of "enemies" that highwaked out.

You can tell from jay's voice the disdain for highwaking (although he used to do it all the time too, not sure if he still does).

Deary me.

Has anyone told him this is just a game?

 

[Morbad]

I think the whole FSD instancing mechanisms, hyperspace jumps/high-waking in particular, are hopeless imbalanced in favor of the defender and were it up to me, I'd rework things (though almost no one would like my changes).

However, as long as it's a clearly intended mechanism, with good contextual plausibility, I don't have any disdain for it, and I don't have any more respect for players who have their CMDR go down with the ship when they could have made an escape. Outside of an explicit agreement to adhere to certain conditions, it's either a meaningless gesture, or a failure.

I do take issue with those that conflate high-waking with less legitimate means of escape, either to condemn the former, or justify the latter. In a game, rules matter, and there is an implicit agreement to follow some basic rules in simply playing.

 

[StiTch]

I think the whole FSD instancing mechanisms, hyperspace jumps/high-waking in particular, are hopeless imbalanced in favor of the defender and were it up to me, I'd rework things (though almost no one would like my changes).

However, as long as it's a clearly intended mechanism, with good contextual plausibility, I don't have any disdain for it, and I don't have any more respect for players who have their CMDR go down with the ship when they could have made an escape. Outside of an explicit agreement to adhere to certain conditions, it's either a meaningless gesture, or a failure.

I do take issue with those that conflate high-waking with less legitimate means of escape, either to condemn the former, or justify the latter. In a game, rules matter, and there is an implicit agreement to follow some basic rules in simply playing.

Well said.

 

[Red Anders]

Its definitely a thing, I saw accusations and mockery of people running away during 1 v 1.
I have been in fights where we fight for 20 min and they wake with 15% hull. Lame.

I am not talking about an agreed duel, but where we both started with 100% and we are actually fighting for 10 min.

Really is some of the dumbest crap I've ever read on here this.

If you were talking about an agreed duel to the death, I'd back anyone for hunting a player to the end of the galaxy for waking out of it because it's just the epitome of lameness.

Suggesting that there's something mockable about a player (no matter what ship he is flying) who in general play recognises that he's getting his butt kicked and so decides to escape is crazy though, as in it defies any kind of logic.

The only exception to that is if the player concerned interdicted you and then ends up bailing out - even then all they've done is make a sound tactical choice instead of just going full Leroy Jenkins but I can accept that if someone goes crashing into a fight expecting glory and ends up getting whipped it is actually pretty amusing.

If you just interdict someone though, attack them, you fight and they realise that they are no match for you (clue - if you have them at 15% hull they are no match for you) and decide to wake, what exactly are you mocking them for? Not being stupid enough to stay in a fight that they've realised they clearly can't win? Bit of misplaced macho there I think.

 

[Elpapo]

Deary me.

Has anyone told him this is just a game?

But... this is immersion indeed, in specific way. He is really into it.

 

[sovapid]

Deary me.

Has anyone told him this is just a game?

Not sure if that is for ryan or jay.

Jay, is , uh, very excitable. I like him because he is such a spazz.

 

[sovapid]

Really is some of the dumbest crap I've ever read on here this.

If you were talking about an agreed duel to the death, I'd back anyone for hunting a player to the end of the galaxy for waking out of it because it's just the epitome of lameness.

Suggesting that there's something mockable about a player (no matter what ship he is flying) who in general play recognises that he's getting his butt kicked and so decides to escape is crazy though, as in it defies any kind of logic.

The only exception to that is if the player concerned interdicted you and then ends up bailing out - even then all they've done is make a sound tactical choice instead of just going full Leroy Jenkins but I can accept that if someone goes crashing into a fight expecting glory and ends up getting whipped it is actually pretty amusing.

If you just interdict someone though, attack them, you fight and they realise that they are no match for you (clue - if you have them at 15% hull they are no match for you) and decide to wake, what exactly are you mocking them for? Not being stupid enough to stay in a fight that they've realised they clearly can't win? Bit of misplaced macho there I think.

It still is the internet. People are gonna mock each other for any stupid thing. "OMG, you bought a ship kit for your FDL ya newb!". It isn't that big a deal and most aren't really gonna get that bent out of shape by a high wake.

You'll take some stick for it, but no worse than other things.

And it is more about the PVP community policing themselves to make PVP in the game fun and challenging because FDev doesn't.

But what ever the Elite Dangerous PVP discord bot is, it tracks your low wake to high wake ratio:

I kinda don't like it because it is mixing my CG cargo runs, where I'm always gonna highwake, with my actual combat pvp, where I've never high waked.

 

[znôrt]

I think his point is that if you sign up for a 1v1 to the death and make a break for it then it's a tad pathetic.

that's a very specific scenario, not to mention that it is breaking an explicit agreement ("sign up for a 1v1 to the death"). also, i doubt this happens but very rarely. this is very far from the generic statement 'waking out is frowned upon' and much less constitutes a consensual view on rules of engagement.

that said, waking out is a concession that can very well be considered as a 'victory' (for any head collectors out there). that's different. then enjoy the victory, but despising waking out is just ballcocky (if anything, just because ziggy just said so).

also, as an honest dueler who has very often gifted his wreck to the flames of odin with a laugh i find this attitude actually hurts any remaining 'prestige' of the (much mentioned) 'pvp community'. pvp is about risk and survival (and skill if we had a proper pvp game mechanics, but that's another story). wake and 'live to fight another day' is absolutely fine. combat logging is not. there's a huge difference.

 

[znôrt]

Its not as bad as you make it out to be.
First of all, I assume you have the important engineers unlocked and ranked g5.

There are many mods and special effects, thats true, but you only need some of them.

For example, rails have many mods and effects, but you only need the long range mod and either feedback cascade or super pen effects. Simple.

Plasma, many modes but you only want focused or efficient. Effects would be dispersal and lock breakers.

Frags: many variations there but you only care about Double shot or overcharged.

So you get the picture, there are only few usefull modes that you actually need.

If you compare it to your regular PVE game with lasers and MCs, PvP is almost an entire different game difficulty wise. But the difficulty comes from getting the skills to fight, not because of engineering.

You dont need god rolls on everything, the most important is dirty drives to be at least 135%.

Again, its not as bad as some people describe it, if you did enough PVE you should have the materials and the means to unlock the engineers.

thanks for the info (honestly), but you kind of proved my point. the fact that the tree of possibilities can be pruned to that extent by looking at a wiki, where a bunch of dedicated 'testers' crystalized their knowledge, just shows how inane the mechanic is.

not to mention this has to be re-evaluated after almost every patch.

 

[znôrt]

It still is the internet. People are gonna mock each other for any stupid thing. "OMG, you bought a ship kit for your FDL ya newb!". It isn't that big a deal and most aren't really gonna get that bent out of shape by a high wake.

yeah, that makes sense. internet makes me feel so old ...

But what ever the Elite Dangerous PVP discord bot is, it tracks your low wake to high wake ratio:

https://i.imgur.com/hWQyW1H.png

very interesting. i didn't even know there was an 'elite dangerous pvp discord'. gonna check that out at some point. but back to the bot ... care to explain in few words how this actually works? does this draw from the api syndicated by pvpers?

 

[ALGOMATIC]

yeah, that makes sense. internet makes me feel so old ...



very interesting. i didn't even know there was an 'elite dangerous pvp discord'. gonna check that out at some point. but back to the bot ... care to explain in few words how this actually works? does this draw from the api syndicated by pvpers?

On top of that they somehow can extract your latest fights, who killed you / or you killed, how many times etc. I honestly have no idea where this data comes from, and whether there is a public API.

 

[M00ka]

On top of that they somehow can extract your latest fights, who killed you / or you killed, how many times etc. I honestly have no idea where this data comes from, and whether there is a public API.

All that information is contained in your Journal file. You can find it at C:/Users/{your name}/Saved Games/Frontier Developments/Elite Dangerous folder.

 

[EvE4evah]

I think the whole FSD instancing mechanisms, hyperspace jumps/high-waking in particular, are hopeless imbalanced in favor of the defender and were it up to me, I'd rework things (though almost no one would like my changes).

However, as long as it's a clearly intended mechanism, with good contextual plausibility, I don't have any disdain for it, and I don't have any more respect for players who have their CMDR go down with the ship when they could have made an escape. Outside of an explicit agreement to adhere to certain conditions, it's either a meaningless gesture, or a failure.

I do take issue with those that conflate high-waking with less legitimate means of escape, either to condemn the former, or justify the latter. In a game, rules matter, and there is an implicit agreement to follow some basic rules in simply playing.

Well said.

In EvE (please excuse me for mentioning it again, I know you guys don't like it) there are three modules for it:

1. Webs: give up to 80% penalty to the enemy ship velocity.

2. Warp disruptors: these disable the target's warp drives, so that they can't leave the instance. Would be the equivalent of Grom Missiles or FSD Interruptors.

3. Warp scramblers: these disable the target's microwarp drives (modules that give up to 500% speed bonus to the target ship when turned On). It would be more or less the equivalent of disabling Boost in ED.

We need modules in ED that can keep the target from waking. But simultaneously, we need to contain the Engineer power creep, and a huge buff to C&P (instant God-like police aggro when committing crimes)

 

[sovapid]

very interesting. i didn't even know there was an 'elite dangerous pvp discord'. gonna check that out at some point. but back to the bot ... care to explain in few words how this actually works? does this draw from the api syndicated by pvpers?

You upload all your log files to the bot. I believe it is called the ROA bot. Then you can see everyone you've killed and everyone thats killed you.

Then you can get stats and stuff like this

My Kills: http://roaweb20161109100616.azurewebsites.net/static/Kills/f46a2356-eaa5-4ca8-af3d-39a67f1a940e

My Deaths: http://roaweb20161109100616.azurewebsites.net/static/MyLosses/d3b4c016-045d-48d8-a319-b8ecf0c706d8