The problem is they could make it all fun and easy in the tutorial, then when he comes into the actual game and tries combat he will get blown up in about two seconds over and over again until he quits, sounds like a plan.
New player experience: Tutorial "Harmless" combat is rage-quit difficult.
- Thread starter crispience
- Start date
The problem is they could make it all fun and easy in the tutorial, then when he comes into the actual game and tries combat he will get blown up in about two seconds over and over again until he quits, sounds like a plan.
Talking a new player down and belittle them doesn't realy add to the experience either though.
There have been some posts in this thread with good advice, that might be a bit more encouraging imho.
Oh I am always against belittling the new players, that doesn't achieve anything, and I must admit I haven't tried out the new player experience or tutorials. The problem is if the harmless NPC's in the new player experience are the same as the harmless NPC's in game something is going wrong somewhere. The other thing is, I came into the game without actually completing any of the combat tutorials and enjoyed myself, albeit with a few losses of the starter Sidewinder but none of those losses were due to combat.
I think in this case I would advise the new player to not worry about the combat tutorial, come in and test the waters for while, relax in the starter Sidewinder, they're free after all, and go back to worrying about combat after a bit of a play around in the game itself.
Thanks, this is helpful info. I'll take your pip advice. My weapons were all Fixed, so I thought great, I'll try gimballed, by there don't seem to be any gimballed kinetic weapons in the Pilot's Federation District (there is a gimballed beam laser which I'll try). There is a missile rack and seeker missile rack which I guess I'll also try.
FDev could definitely do some improvements to the new player combat experience. Another thought is to create a newbie zone "Totally Harmless" NPC class with special shields that don't come back on for several minutes and don't high-wake out, for the basic "Kill x Pirates" missions, and then graduate to Harmless NPCs for the "Kill <named> Pirate" missions. That would alleviate a lot of the frustration while trying to learn to keep on target and let newbies have some sense of satisfaction and progression to "normal" Harmless NPCs before leaving the newbie zone. Reduce the mission rewards and give no Combat XP for the Totally Harmless NPCs.
Making gimballed multi-cannons available in the newbie zone might also be helpful.
The game is easy. It's always been easy. There is no learning curve if you've played these sort of games before and know basic flight theory and mechanics.
Yes, WW2 style flying and combat in space is weird. Get over it. It's not a sim.
The number of times I hear people talking about the learning curve when I just walked in day-one and made my way downtown through the game, well, I wish I had a quarter.
Yes, the Engineer grind sucks and is nothing but overpowered meta progression via running on the hamster wheel. Sorry.
But at least the game is easy.
Live long and die young.
—Evil Rocker Spock
Yes, WW2 style flying and combat in space is weird. Get over it. It's not a sim.
The number of times I hear people talking about the learning curve when I just walked in day-one and made my way downtown through the game, well, I wish I had a quarter.
Yes, the Engineer grind sucks and is nothing but overpowered meta progression via running on the hamster wheel. Sorry.
But at least the game is easy.
Live long and die young.
—Evil Rocker Spock
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Lestat
Banned
What it sounds like is you bit off more then you can chew and might not have read the manual or have not done the tutorials. Bravo for lack of effort.
Buying a game these days "entitles" you to win. I wonder if that's the issue here.
Honestly, don't even bother with the tutorial. Just make sure you have your controls set up well enough.
That's like 90% of the game in the bag right there.
![[PS4] Filthymick420](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/201/201444.jpg?1555738739){kind=avatar}
But how do you beat a game with no bosses or levels?
You don't win at this game.You just make your way along as you see fit.
I haven't lost a ship in 4 years, and I'm sure I'm way behind most on the meta progression. I only made like half a billion credits this last year while on DW2.
Hey, it's a cool setting and galactic sim at any rate. And the ships are kind of cool too, given the WW2 style combat and such.
I guess that's the problem with console then. PS4 will just freeze up sometimes for no reason usually while I'm in a conflict zone. To be fair I'm usually in a conflict zone so I mean that's more than likely where I'm going to be when it happens but yeah. Just like earlier today lost my dangerous combat pilot in like 2 million in combat bonds decided to turn the game off before I broke my controller and my TV at the same time in one fell swoop lol
C'est la vie
I use a game controller much like the PS4, I imagine. I customized the controls to my liking though, of course.
Interesting thing to take note of: in my last testing, there's a roughly 18% effective maneuverability handicap in the "corners" of the analog sticks, due to them not having full range of motion along multiple axes with the typical controllers these days having round range of motions.
As much as I've complained about it in the past years ago now, it hasn't been much of an issue for me in the game.
Lestat
Banned
Well Because my controls are different than most. Using dual Flight sticks setup I Used the at the time Alpha Beta Tutorials to set up my controls.
Fair enough. I did use them once a couple years ago to test out control setup.
Just the one where you have to jump between systems, so I could test flight controls outside of the station. Not sure if that's still a thing, but I imagine it is.
So yeah, good for setting up controls at any rate.
Cheers.
OP, this quote gives me the impression you are trying to fly and fight with Flight Assist switched off (FA-off) all the time. Am I right? If I am, you are biting off far too much at once. FA-off flying is not required to win in combat. FA-off flying is something for experienced players who like the enhanced immersion and the extra challenge controlling a ship in FA-off poses. It is true FA-off gives a tactical advantage in combat, but this is really only relevant for (advanced) PvP combat.
If indeed you are attempting the tutorial combat in FA-off, I strongly suggest you switch FA-on and try again. Save FA-off for later.
Couple things in no particular order:
• "Early learning stage" is really the tutorial simulations and challenge scenarios. (accessible from right-hand panel and maybe title screen - I don't know if they changed that.) You can do these over and over again and fail them as many times as you like with no penalty to anything in your "real" game, and it's a great way to get the hang of combat and everything else.
• The Pilots Federation District isn't necessarily a "learn how to play the game" zone so much as it is a "don't get ganked by more experienced players" zone. Frontier is never going to program special unique NPC behavior just for you, they can barely get the default behavior to work right in the rest of the game. Again, you can learn the basics and hone your technique in the tutorial simulations if you find the live game is too unforgiving.
• High Waking is just a fact of life in Elite. You don't need to have a wake scanner, in fact you probably don't want one because chances are the NPC high-waked out of the Pilot's Federation District anyway. You are better off learning to tail your target and whomping them before they can jump. When they're getting ready to high wake they'll be flying in a straight line so they're easy targets if you can keep up.
• RE: modules in Pilots Federation District: (Your overall loadout sounds fine.) If you really want a wake scanner, or A rated modules, AND you have not yet gained any Pilot's Federation ranks (combat, trade, exploration,) you can go to other systems and buy whatever other modules you want, then come back to PFD.
• You don't actually have to get good at combat, like, ever. At all. You can do other activities, save up money, build a powerful ship, and if you still want to commit violence you can then opt to only take on targets weaker than you. You only need to get up to a Cobra really and then there will always be harmless sidewinders and eagles to overpower, and you can build from there. If you WANT to get good at combat that's totally cool. However, part of getting good at combat is making peace with constant setbacks and being OK with struggle.
• Good on you for trying to use a mouse and keyboard, but it's got a learning curve all by itself which is possibly more advanced than any of the actual combat skills in Elite. If you have a gamepad, I highly highly recommend giving that a try. Yes you'll be starting all over with memorizing controls, but you'll probably have an easier time overall. (If you have a HOTAS go with that obviously, but gamepad is more than fine.)
• You probably can't do core mining in PFD, and it would be a heck of a thing to even try to do in the starter ships, but if you can get a prospector limpet controller, a refinery, and a mining laser you have everything you need to do standard laser mining. In fact the prospector limpet is optional, and mining "back in the day" was done purely with the mining laser doing the exact kind of trial and error you're describing. Remember also that half the job is finding the right rings and hotspots before you even start mining.
• Try to enjoy the chaos and confusion of it all. Embrace the vastness and complexity of the game world you're in, a game world which has a purpose of its own and does not care about you. The first 30-100 hours of learning to play this game are the best it has to offer, and a rare experience among modern games. Savor it because there's nothing waiting for you on the other side of the learning curve - you can't win, all you can do is learn and keep on learning until there's nothing left to master.
Pretty subjective. I started playing with mouse and keyboard as well, purely on natural selection. Shooting stuff is way more easy with a mouse than doing it with a stick, or the likes. I got a gamepad, when playing in VR, but can't hit a cows arx with it.
Btw, the store button isn't blue anymore. Just saying
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Making harmless NPCs easier could give you gratification (for a short time) but it doesn't teach you how to win in combat. Harmless NPCs are the easiest enemy in game, if you don't manage to defeat them you need to practice more or ignore combat by running away.
What you are looking for is already there, it's the combat tutorials in the main menu. There you start with shooting at a stationary rock and if I am not mistaken the first real enemy is a shieldless NPC. Play these missions before you start the main game. At some point the missions get quite challenging though, you don't need to master them all.
Regarding controls, when I started with keyboard and mouse I struggled at first, until I changed the default bindings (pitch + yaw on mouse and rolling on Q/E, lateral thrust on WASD IIRC). For me that made combat way more intuitive, so give it a shot. A few months later I bought a HOTAS but at that point I was able to defeat even the most challenging NPCs with keyboard and mouse. Some of the best PvPers use keyboard and mouse, although I find that a HOTAS is easier to learn because the analogue input translates better into the game.
Don't be discouraged by some of the rude replies in this thread, suggesting to make parts of the game easier is like a red rag to a bull for some people. I guess it would be more sensible to ask what you are doing wrong rather than complaining about what the game does wrong, especially if you consider that the training missions you are looking for already exist.
Bit of a quote mixup there I think. It was someone else who said that one. KB&M here!