No Man's Sky recent success is good sign for Elite and future Space games/sims

[Kaybe]

This is the example of a post that will really get on some people's nerves.

Pushing subjective opinion as a fact and the they wonder why people get peed off with them.

Uhm ... what? Let me explain the difference between subjective opinion and fact.

The subjective opinion is that I am bitter about the progress of the game and don't consider it moving in the right direction. Those who are heavily into combat would love the game as it is currently and I did state that it's good at what it does. Opinion is saying that it's too damn hot outside.

Fact is when you list actual delivered content and the problems with them. Fact is saying that global warming is a problem that is affecting the world.

Know the difference. The fact is that Elite is promising content and not delivering anywhere close to anything complete ... again, unless you're a space combat junkie.

 

[Taller Ghost Walt]

In two years, Elite has brought us ... junk. With only a few shining exceptions.

This absolutely falls under 'subjective opinion'.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Uhm ... what? Let me explain the difference between subjective opinion and fact.

The subjective opinion is that I am bitter about the progress of the game and don't consider it moving in the right direction. Those who are heavily into combat would love the game as it is currently and I did state that it's good at what it does. Opinion is saying that it's too damn hot outside.

Fact is when you list actual delivered content and the problems with them. Fact is saying that global warming is a problem that is affecting the world.

Know the difference. The fact is that Elite is promising content and not delivering anywhere close to anything complete ... again, unless you're a space combat junkie.

Whether they have a problem or not is down to opinion. Personally I agree with you regarding multicrew, but it was never something I was looking forward to.

SLF and passengers while could be better, I generally enjoy a lot. There could be far worse implementations.

I am not a combat pilot in ED but I seem to be having a good time.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it trash. I don't like NMS, it isn't trash, I don't like Doom, there are plenty that do, it's probably a good game for those that like those games. I don't really like the X-games. But I am having a blast with ED. While it has flaws I find it on the whole a very good game.

Most of what you wrote was subjective opinion.

The only one as far as I know that didn't give as much as they said was multicrew, saying that, there seem to be a number of people who enjoy It, so it can't be all bad.

It's all in the words and how you deliver said words.

While I am truely happy that NMS is better and people are enjoying it I fail to see what any of that has to do with ED. They are both very different games which want to do different thing.

Personally I think ED is now heading in the right direction if the new mining and exploration mechanics are what they look like. I thought they developed the wrong parts during horizons.

 

[babelfisch]

I just remember the post and the color red (lol i think that was his avatar and maybe his username was pete or peter or paul sooooo...loads of help there. Anyway he knew his physics and did tests in an orbit by increasing his speed or decreasing it and not moving (decreasing or increasing altitude I think). This was two years ago I think and that's about the best I can do right now lol.

This video is more than two years old so I guess the person you are talking about was wrong.

[video=youtube;XE7WPstMzsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE7WPstMzsM[/video]

AFAIK the problem with orbiting in Elite Dangerous is that you usually require pretty high speeds to maintain a stable orbit (dependant on your mass, the gravitation of the planet / moon and your altitude). For most bodies that's way more than we can achieve in normal space due the the speed limitation.

I am in no way an expert in physics or space flight though, there are other people on this forum who will be able to give you some hard numbers and real examples. Anyway, I am mostly sure that my assumptions are correct.

PS
And I believe orbit mechanics only work for landable planets in ED.

 

[Viajero]

facepalms...

I know right!? Had the exact same reaction when I read the post I responded to!

One side uses facts, the other makes them up

... Says the one that facepalms on facts?!

 

[Kubicide]

This review might explain why people are really enjoying NMS and experiencing what many feel is the missing chemistry in ED.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/gaming/content/9973/no-mans-sky-next/

Good link. There's quite a few good points being made like:

"No Man's Sky is pure sci-fi of the best kind. It's endless universe provides a backdrop that your imagination will find impossible to fill."

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Good link. There's quite a few good points being made like:

"No Man's Sky is pure sci-fi of the best kind. It's endless universe provides a backdrop that your imagination will find impossible to fill."

And yet here on the ED forums whenever anyone suggests using one's imagination they get shouted down by the "We want moar gameplay" brigade.

 

[Kubicide]

I wouldn't say the success of other space games is a good sign for the future of Elite.
Quite the opposite.
This game has been been getting away with providing the bare minimum of content for far too long due to the lack of competition. I don't really expect that to change.
I'm not sure how many other space games are in development besides Star Citizen, but I don't think Elite can suffer to lose players to another game with NMS levels of success.

This is true, and likely why the fan base is out in force in this thread as NMS is making a statement if for nothing more than highlighting what hasn't been done in Elite. FDev simply chose to move development efforts to other new franchises. That why Elite remains basically the same as it was at release (gameplay wise). Nothing really to debate hence all the cute attacks on posters I guess!

 

[Kaocraft]

No Man's Sky massive rise from the ashes is great for that game and I'm really enjoying it now!

But it also makes me really really bitter about Elite.

In two years, NMS has gone from near featureless to loaded with three primary storylines, complex base building and crafting, large varieties of ships and customization, ***space legs*** (NMS was just a first person pespective, but this latest update actually gives players character models with full animation), three different types of rovers to drive around extraordinarily detailed and varied worlds (Elite's 'varied' is basically different colors on dead rocks), control of large fleets to do missions on their own, etc etc etc. Basically, there's A LOT you can do in NMS. Although yes, Elite is still much better at flying around in space and spare combat.

In two years, Elite has brought us ... junk. With only a few shining exceptions. The Horizons update 2.0 and 2.1 were excellent. 2.2 onwards was not. Passenger missions are basically rethemed cargo transport missions with attitude problems. Ship launched fighters are basically the same as flying normal ships, but with NPC crew that have permadeath and gobble up your revenue even when not being used. Multicrew is GARBAGE. I cannot express how terribly bad the single most anticipated feature of Horizons is. It's just really really bad. First off, with only being able to fly fighters and man turrets, it's combat exclusive. Second, because it's only for fighters and turrets, it serves absolutely no purpose on smaller ships with multiple seating like the Cobra or Asp. Again, I can't stress how horrible multicrew as implemented is and will stop here before I go on a feverish page long rant about this 'feature'. And then 2.4 brought us Thargoids and ... oh look ... more combat. And more combat ships. And more combat gear. Uhm, yay?

So if you're really into space battles, the last two years have been fairly strong. For those of us who are not combat junkies, the devs are driving us away in large numbers!

And now this whole year is spent on revamping mechanics they really should have tried getting right in the first place. Don't get me wrong ... I'm looking forward to the mining and exploration changes at the end of the year, but it feels like too little too late, know what I mean?

And through all this, NMS has come out with strong update after strong update ... for FREE.
Elite has given us the base game for 60 bucks, the Horizons DLC for 50ish, and have a cosmetic microtransaction store absolutely raking in the cash. And they are a much bigger company last I heard.

I really really hope that this latest giant free update for NMS is giving Frontier a serious wake up call that they are letting their signature IP go to the dogs and force them to *finally* improve the game and add real content ... without just making us pay another 50 bucks for a new DLC with the barest minimum of effort like Horizons. I really really do. I love this game, but right now, I can't find any reason to play it anymore.

I will never get tired of dunking on the multicrew update and anyone who defends it. There have been a lot of lame, buggy, half-implemented, undercooked, MVP-and-then-abandon-it features in Elite, but multicrew was a whole other level. Multicrew was so bad it was almost a hostile act. The fact that they sacrificed the in-game lore to bring it to us ("yes, it's telepresence!" He said excitedly), thus ruining the premise of Elite's world building forever, was just the icing on the cake. Multicrew was an evil genie granting a wish that you didn't word exactly right, and Frontier never deserves the benefit of the doubt ever again.

 

[MrFailfactory]

So, I've put my feet in the pool. There is some weirdness, and some adjustment to changes, and the fact that I haven't played it in a year isn't helping, but I can see some of the improvements already. One of these is the third-person camera option. I think the effect that this option has should not be underestimated, especially if attracting a wider audience is a goal. This includes the option for flying the ship and driving the SRV as well, by the way.

I'm not sure I like how the character moves just yet in third-person, but I'll give it more time before making a decision as to which perspective I'll primarily use (on foot).

People really should not be crowing too loudly about general NPC interaction, because it's about as basic as it gets, though the presentation isn't terrible.

I'm also getting the feeling that, like Elite, knowing the right way to go about things leads to a much less frustrating experience, and much quicker progression.

I have a bunch of gripes, but the overall first impression is positive, and I will likely spend a fair amount more time with it. I cannot say at this point whether or not my played time would come close to what it has been for Elite (in either real years, or hours played), but we shall see.

Riôt

 

[WR3ND]

The best selling game of all time is Tetris, which is based on a "lining up falling blocks to make them disappear" mechanic.

Neither ED nor NMS have the ability to line up falling blocks to make them disappear.

Clearly whichever game adds this crucial feature first will corner the market.

(And how Tetris managed to succeed without space legs, base building, crafting, or procedurally generated plants remains a mystery)

Now that you mention it, isn't Minecraft the second best selling game of all time? I remember hearing something like that. Anyway, if I want Minecraft in space, I have Space Engineers, which is kind of, sort of like that. It's an alright game, but I seem to be spending much more of my time in Minecraft and EDHB, or whatever we're calling Elite these days.

Different games with different niches and different ways of interacting and doing things in them. I certainly wouldn't want every game I play to be the same. Choice is good. Who knows? I might even pick up NMS someday too.

Cheers.

 

[WR3ND]

...

I will once i buy the game on next paycheck. Then you'll admit that NMS is superior to ED cause it's got tetris ?

I think you might be able to actually make a functional Tetris game in Minecraft using a redstone machine. (Yes, I have not googled it.) Don't think it would be easy, but at least potentially possible. Not sure if an actually fully working Tetris game could be made in NMS, but I doubt it.

Moot point either way, but kind of interesting to speculate on it, it seems.

 

[WR3ND]

I just wanted to make the point on the person which put those things in bullet points and said Elite did them better where in fact Elite didn't do or did very scarcely.

But I totally agree with you. ED has much better flight model by miles and galaxy created is unchallenged.
What I think many players want is to have a base in Elite - NOT to build it. Just to manage it, maintain it, protect it, upgrade it, to have a small home outpost - maybe have other friends come in, help them with the outpost. This idea could be expanded to infinity.

Crafting and base building in Elite universe I don't think it would work, unless FD makes it really creative, I guess we will see in the future.

It doesn't really seem fitting to me nor to be within the scope of the gameplay Frontier are going for with Elite. I could be wrong though. To me we're "spacers" and Commanders in the Pilots Federation. Maybe renting an apartment or apartments at space or ground stations could work a bit better, but really, our ships are generally big enough to serve as our homes too, if of course we could walk (PWM electromagnetic proximity boots, or some such) around them, etc.

 

[Quantis Trap]

And yet here on the ED forums whenever anyone suggests using one's imagination they get shouted down by the "We want moar gameplay" brigade.

I've seldom seen commanders get shouted down in this forum and never for too much creativity. You must be thinking of that SC forum where it definitely happens. Most everyone in this forum respects each others opinions. Notice I didn't see agrees with each other's opinions. Commanders CAN disagree and still be respectful!

 

[WR3ND]

I've never said grind is in the mind. In ED grind is a choice. In NMS the early game is pure grind. You have no choice in that grind. You have run around constantly shooting rocks otherwise you die.

But I think people like that kind of thing. As it gives that repetition a purpose, to them it stops being a grind. For me being forced to do these repetitive tasks constantly is not my cup of tea.

In ED I can potter around and go at my own pace, I don't notice the repetition as it can be several weeks between doing a similar activity. So it isn't a grind as I don't notice it.

All games are full of repetition. Can't get away from It, it's whether you notice it or not and with ED that so depends on the player and how they play.

Still disagree with this. ED is a game where "do 'x' to get 'y'" is in full effect. You can spread out 'x' as much as you'd like but you're still doing it or forgetting about 'y'. And if you don't enjoy 'x' then you can pound sand. And you can bet it's become an expectation with the power creep. You can't ask for loadout assistance without someone posting G5 bling fits even when you specify unengineered. Or people suggesting to get it engineered fast.

Surprisingly enough, I agree with both of these opinions. I also wish Elite had a bit more survival type gameplay, or leastwise offered a bit more of contextual incentives for it.

From my perspective, the Engineers/Guardians meta grind is real, since in general that isn't how I choose to approach playing the game. It's a struggle for me and has somewhat compromised my prospects playing the game to its fullest and along its intended progression dynamics.

I love Elite for a lot of the stuff it does right for me and enjoy playing those elements of it, but they seem to have diminishing potential as the game progresses more in other aspects, edging me out a little at a time.

Don't get me wrong; I like tinkering with my ships quite a bit when it's feasible to do so, but in terms of player interaction and progressive gameplay, well, overall I enjoyed my time playing the game a fair bit more before the Engineers.

...

Just noticed this thread is 74 pages. Not sure I'll make it through the whole thing...

 

[WR3ND]

NMS showed a spectacular lack of judgement and lack of understanding of the market by excluding half the human race with the second word of the title. Just dumb.

Surely it was a play on the term no man's land? Alternatively, maybe you're feeling slighted that women own it? [weird]

The validity is proportional to the amount of information used to support that argument. And in this case the amount of information is a couple of numbers and: they're both space games. (Sorry Pi)

Funny enough, one is apparently a sky game while the other (at least presently) is a non-sky game.

 

[verminstar]

And yet here on the ED forums whenever anyone suggests using one's imagination they get shouted down by the "We want moar gameplay" brigade.

When was the last time this happened? This from someone who has been consistently bitter with multiple chips on their shoulder...care to provide an example? If it happens every single time like ye imply, shouldn’t take too long to find a classic example ^

 

[Whitehair]

NMS showed a spectacular lack of judgement and lack of understanding of the market by excluding half the human race with the second word of the title. Just dumb.

Which half?

"No Man's Sky" would imply that only women can get to the sky?

"No Alien's Sky" excludes the whole of the Human race.

"No Human's Sky" - not exactly catchy....

Maybe "No Women, No Sky" could be a good alternative name.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

*SPOILERS*

Wasn't that idea behind name that 'man' here was generic term (as being person), and it was implied you are actually undying android?

 

[obliterator]

And yet here on the ED forums whenever anyone suggests using one's imagination they get shouted down by the "We want moar gameplay" brigade.

It's because when someone suggests using one's imagination in this forum, it's usually as a response to someone suggesting that the gameplay could be improved.

Ex:
-It would be nice to have more engaging missions with some narrative aspects added to them.
-Use your imagination instead!

In that case, the person saying "use your imagination" is basically making the statement that imagination should be seen as a replacement to actual gameplay rather than an addition.