Unless you are one of those commanders who consider using the traders as almost a mortal sin not even PI's are really all that hard.I'm sure
I was just thinking, this account has picked up over 100 G4/5 mats recently from HGE's just jumping between 5 systems I'm trading in, most spawning within a couple of Ls from the stations... Getting the stuff isn't even hard work (unless it is PI's)
No more patch updates before Fleet Carriers?
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Not quite a mortal sin... just left feeling 'dirty' after a visit
Otherwise, they are briliant for those times when one needs a handful of midrange mats 'NOW!'(I did pick up 9 PI's from a HGE that was literally next to a planet I was doing a scan mission on the other day
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Would be more productive to spend that reflection on CQC, Powerplay, Squadrons, PMFs...and probably Fleet Carriers I bet.I wonder how FD feel about the FSS? Do they view it as a sucess or do they now wish they spent the time on ice planets instead?
Maybe somebody could do a round up in a livestream or something
Would be more productive to spend that reflection on CQC, Powerplay, Squadrons, PMFs...and probably Fleet Carriers I bet.
There is no need to compare how productive the thought experiment would be, just add the exploration changes to the list
CQC does no harm, it is completely optional & only impacts a single system permit in the main game. It may not be as good as it could have been (not my kind of game anyway no matter how good it might be) but it works for those who like it & can be ignored by those who do not.
Powerplay has some odd choices of criteria (the Hudson Feudal/Patronage thing comes to mind when there are no Fed aligned Feudal or Patronage Factions) and from the outside perspective of a hardcore BGSer seems kinda grindy but for the most part it can usually be ignored, and provides a little more nuance to system flipping because the effect on powerplay may need to be considered.
Squadrons are great imo, a way better way for players to band together for a common cause than inserting a PMF that can never be removed or have it's home system change. I can create or disband a squadron and probably place & move a fleet carrier proudly displaying to every mode & instance that I, Riverside might live here & use my carrier as an advert but actually am probably hostile with the controlling faction in this system and need this thing to resupply for the war. So when everyone else does this I'll know who my opposition & potential allies are. This could be great
And then there's exploration, where something that was simple & just worked was removed to placate people who weren't happy at the expense of people who were when we could have either or both as we do in the bubble.
Of all of those, exploration is the one that stands out as questionable. Maybe PMFs not being removable too.
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You clearly haven't played 2.1. Natural progression my rear. "Easily" collected, lol. "Abundance" snort - FD valued player time so much - players had to wait two years to get there (allegedly - I'm sure the "easiness" is just an exaggeration).Yes, CZ's can be a bit 'interesting' in an unengineered ship
Where I'm at a loss in my understanding with your discontent is that the materials to 'do' engineering are in abundance (provided you don't want G5 stuff by the 100's) and easily collected in everyday play, even as mission rewards, so getting a ship or two up to CZ combat ready wouldn't be a chore... Natural progression almost
That's how it is.I personally wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, but good for you if like it.
The issue is for the most part just that. I wouldn't mind having toput up withuse the FSS, if after I had hours of potential gameplay in that system. That would be an acceptable loop, you arrive at a system, spent a few minutes fiddling with FSS, and now it's time to start the actual exploration based on whatever signs you detected and thought interesting.
Apart from exploring stuff like surface POIs.
At this point I really have no idea what people actually want. More surface POIs? Seem like their number constantly increased over the last years.
Or do you want more pseudo "scientific" scanners and mechanics to find and investigate the POIs? That would mean more mini games like the FSS and with all the complaining about it we aren't really encouraging Frontier to add similar mechanics...
In my opinion exploration is nowhere feature complete, but most of the criticism seems rather contradictory to me.
PS
By the way, while you want to spend hours in a system the most vocal part of the exploration community is already annoyed by the 30 seconds it takes to use the FSS.
Not really. The FSS already told you everything in detail there is to know about the entire system. There is no point in going further, unless you really want to see the same geysers for the 500th time.
If the focus is shifted to POIs, then the number of POIs needs to be, in both abundance and especially variety, much much larger than it is now. And not only that, there needs to be things to do, not just see.
Like I said to another forum member, there isn't even a reason after all this time to land on a planet from an exploration perspective.
And POIs don't need to be all "special", it can be things to mine (using the SRV (or some other land vehicle), things to collect for research (deliver back to some station, or even one of those scientific installations, if they were to have landing pads), etc etc.
But the amount of POIs and their variety needs to be much larger. This is the kind of stuff RNG should be used for, for variety. The game uses so much RNG, but rarely for the things which would benefit the most from it. Even stations and planetary ports would benefit from some RNG, but this is a whole different matter.
I don't like NMS as a whole, don't like their "style", but the truth is, there is more gameplay and exploration in one of their tiny planets, than in ED's entire galaxy. We don't need to go from one extreme "almost nothing to find and nothing to do) to the other (bazillion things to do and stuff to find all around), but right now it's very poor.
With this I agree, in fact I feel it hasn't even started yet, but I doubt we'll see much more. Just look at how they're struggling just to show that there are a few fumaroles on a planet. I doubt the game has been planned from the start to have any exploration gameplay other than locating some planets and moons.
For credit farmers everything will always take too long. For I doubt taking input from people who only want to see a number change will result in a good game. Ironically, credit farmers are the ones who benefit the most from the current state of "exploration".
I'm not prone to fabricating convenience - or exaggeration (e.g. "I can make 200 million credit / hour mining") and the comment was honest - as is the 'easy' part - provided your ship is travelling in the occupied bubbles there will be USS' aplenty, many close to mission targets...
No - I haven't played 2.1 so have no idea to what you refer - I'm playing the version available now, today, so can only base my perspective on what I know, and that is, simply stated, that gathering materials is actually easy - and for the rarer ones we have mats traders who will swindle you out of copius amounts of materials in exchange for the few you need.
I'm not suggesting you embrace engineering - solely pointing out that your perception of the effort needed to do so may be considerably more than reality provides
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Dude you really need to let go.
Yes engineering was a pain in the rear in 2.1 indeed. But it's been many years, things have changed a lot for the better, and engineering is now trivial unless you're one of those "I need to get everything to maximum G5 now!" ocd types.
Materials now give 3 units per picked up material. There are planetary sites with bazillions of G5 materials. There are material traders. Blown ships drop materials. The are loads of HGEs in boom systems. Each give from 6 to 18 G5 mats. There are loads of boom systems. There are places to farm data. The former upgrade randomness has disappeared also. Many missions give G5 materials.
Just carry some collector limpets in a small slot in all your ships, and collect as you go. Trade for the rest. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I have materials coming out of my ears and I'm not even trying.
Even the lowest upgrades already make a huge difference.
Multicrew should have never been added to the game, such a lore breaking handwavium.
Imo they should have focused on improving and adding roles to the NPC Crew
So if I understand you correctly you want FDEV to continue what they are doing but more of it?
I am pretty sure that people like Burke are not credit farmers but real explorers and yet resolving the FSS takes too long for him.
PS
Just to be clear, I am not trying to provoke you or to be dense. It's just that I am trying to understand what you want from exploration and how it's different from the current path chosen by Frontier. There are so many differing opinions that it gets difficult to understand the underlying issues.
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Hah well played sir!
But I wanted much, much more of it from the start, so it would be worth it. Now we're in this limbo, and we have no guarantee whatsoever they will continue to do it. But this is just the POIs, there's still no activities.
I don't think Burke would oppose to spend a lot of time in a system, provided it was worth it in terms of gameplay.
Personally I think the best way for more activities would be more mini games. Currently we have the FSS, Probes and the Wave Scanner. On the other hand it seems like many people hate these mini games.Hah well played sir!
But I wanted much, much more of it from the start, so it would be worth it. Now we're in this limbo, and we have no guarantee whatsoever they will continue to do it. But this is just the POIs, there's still no activities.
True, but what does 'worth in terms of gameplay' mean? If we would ask Burke directly he would probably just say that it would be enough to reintroduce the ADS. However, people complaining about the ADS is what led to the current implementation... I guess it's getting increasingly difficult to please all the players.
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We all likely have our opinions on what each feature would be in an ideal scenario and they would all probably be a bit different.Personally I think the best way for more activities would be more mini games. Currently we have the FSS, Probes and the Wave Scanner. On the other hand it seems like many people hate these mini games.
True, but what does 'worth in terms of gameplay' mean? If we would ask Burke directly he would probably just say that it would be enough to reintroduce the ADS. However, people complaining about the ADS is what led to the current implementation... I guess it's getting increasingly difficult to please all the players.
Whether or not what we had before was "right" or what we have now is "right" is subjective...... What is easier to stick a flag in imo however is to look back at the early developments and see if exploration we had at launch in a big picture way, is what everyone was expecting when we listened to FD talk about how they wanted Exploration to be (when they were going on about making the game they wanted to play but didnt currently exist).
details aside, imo exploration was a long way from what anyone i think were expecting who followed the developement of the game. (remember the groups of players who were planning organised mapping events to try to make the perilous journey to sag A?..... but sure..... exact details, agreeing on those is impossible.... but getting to Sag A within 24 hrs of Gamma using 1 button press, that was a long way from the exploration I thought FD were gunning for.
For me I think exploration now is a big step forward...... however it is still lacking a functional need to do the stuff imo..... there needs to be an ingame mechanical reason to scan full systems imo, and that is currently missing.... but i respect not everyone agrees. I definitely feel i am actually "doing stuff" when mapping systems now than i did before with the old discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner.
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I thought I thought and I think I understood what the problem is . Remember the first elite. They jumped not to the star but to the edge of the system (which is logical) So that when you exit the jump not to crash into a planet of some kind . After that, fly to the star or to the nearest station. Along the way, you get an adventure in the form of pirates from the giant rings or a police convoy (sometimes both). This was the beauty of elite 1. And now you jump out to the star and for players the game has turned into a jumping simulator. That on the hundredth jump to put it mildly annoying. And if you return as before, then there is a sense in the squadrons and in the career.
No. The FSS is an obnoxious, mind numbing minigame that looks like it escaped from very early 90s gaming. Anybody with a clue, anybody who was an expert in gaming, anybody who played games or even took a passing interest should have picked up on the design failure that is the FSS. That is why i dont like and wont use it. Incompetent design. If Fdev cant or wont admit when they get things wrong they will never improve. Its all very sad cause all i wanted was to fly around looking at stuff.
Yay FSS vs ADS! More please!
Its not about the FSS. I had to correct babels opinion of why i didnt like the mechanic.
We should start calling it Burke's Law, the Elite Dangerous version of Godwin's Law: As a thread gets longer, the chance of veering into the FSS/ADS debacle approaches 1.
SPerhaps you think i am, of the four choices you chose to link expert to me. Had you been a manager and you saw the FSS being created, would you have put a stop to it? Sent it back for "further design" whatever its called. I know i would.
How long does one have to game to be an expert anyway?
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